Mudda Fudding drones.

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 NBR 29 May 2019

Yesterday morning at Stanage someone was flying a small drone along the cliff, sounded like a thousand angry wasps and put me in a right grump. Now am I just a miserable old git or is this the terrible crime against hummanity I felt it was?

For context it got within about 50 feet of climbers (I recon) and I did find the buzz a distraction when climbing it also buzzed the area with the Ouzzles nesting. Unfrotunatly I couldn't spot the operator from the bottom and by the time I topped out I think they had moved on.

On a happier note I met 2 loverly Swizz climbers who in response to my surprise at their coming all the way to the Peak to climb said 'For the trad'.

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 Derry 29 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Agreed, very much dislike the things. Not just for the noise but for the voyeuristic nature of them... "Who's bloody filming me make a meal of this route?"

 DerwentDiluted 29 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

To take out a thousand angry wasps, you need a swarm of angry bees.

youtube.com/watch?v=J50N5lQoAFw&

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 duchessofmalfi 29 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Yes they are ******* irritating.  The last time I was buzzed I found the owner and had a quick word and the drone was withdrawn. There are still a load of people picking these up from Argos without the slightest idea of their responsibilities. We've not reached peak CB radio yet but hopefully soon.

10-7

 J Whittaker 29 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Lob a number 6 dragon at it. Take a beanbag gun and knock it out the sky.

3
 summo 29 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Catapult; Should make good sport. 

 overdrawnboy 29 May 2019
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

> To take out a thousand angry wasps, you need a swarm of angry bees.

" a real cool fun recreational machine gun"  (shakes head slowly in disbelief)

 henwardian 30 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

To all the people who said to knock them out of the sky, sorry to be all boring, but the drone pilot is going to hand the footage of you taking the drone out to a police officer and you're going to (quite rightly) find yourself having to buy him/her a new drone, or getting fined or whatever.

I hate them and they are obnoxious, but I've been all over the place in the last few years and I think I've only seen maybe 2 or 3 drones randomly flying around and none of them were when I was climbing. Is it really that much of a problem in England? Also, isn't it a pretty temporary nuisance? becBuse they can only fly for like 10-20 minutes at most, unless it's some sort of pro thing, in which case I'd expect the user to be a bit more educated and less intrusive with their use...

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 deacondeacon 30 May 2019
In reply to henwardian:

If they're flying close enough for you to throw a hex at it, it's they that are breaking the law.

It's about as anti social as possible. Like having a stereo at the crag but it's in the air following you. 

In reply to deacondeacon:

> If they're flying close enough for you to throw a hex at it, it's they that are breaking the law.

Whilst that is true, the typical knee jerk reaction posted on here of "chuck a rock/hex at it" is ill advised. Should the damaged drone or indeed the hex land on someone below, that would be your responsibility, not the drone pilots. 

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 AdrianC 30 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Heard one take off when I was nearing the top of a crag earlier this week and gave it my usual curse of "I hope you bloody well crash."

Imagine my delight when a decent gust of wind carted it off down the gorge, out of both earshot and, as far as I could tell, range of it's controller, pursued by it's concerned owners.

 Offwidth 30 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Drones are banned at Stanage March to August and its against the law to fly closer than 50m to the public.  

https://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/visiting/frequently-asked-questions/drones

OP NBR 30 May 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Interesting, definatly within 50m of people.

I think it was the proximity to the nesting birds that really annoyed me.

 oldie 30 May 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Just had a quick look at that link. Is it actually against the law for drones to fly closer than 50m to other people, or is that just the code? Of course if there was an accident closer than 50m then the owner might be found guilty of negligence.

 Mr. Lee 30 May 2019
In reply to Derry:

> Agreed, very much dislike the things. Not just for the noise but for the voyeuristic nature of them... "Who's bloody filming me make a meal of this route?"

Also the anonymity that bugs as well. A prolonged middle finger usually makes them disappear I've found. Plus I get the satisfaction of knowing that their footage is probably now unusable. 

 Jamie Wakeham 30 May 2019
In reply to oldie:

It's the law.  The 'Drone Code' is just an easy-to-read distillaion of the actual legislation.  So the operator in the OP is committing a criminal offence by flying within 50m of people, and also (I think) committing a civil offence of trespass by flying within the PDNP.

My usual reaction to one flying near me whilst climbing is to loudly shout 'get that ***king thing away from me', which generally gets the required result.

If one continued to buzz me or my climbing partner, and I considered it dangerous (I would most certainly consider flying near a leader endangerment) I would have no qualms at all about letting the operator know I intended to bring it down by throwing objects, and then doing so if I could see the likely crash zone was clear.

 Dave Hewitt 30 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

I've seen several drones on the hill in the past three years or so. One was a professional thing being used by a film/TV crew on Ben Lomond, and they seemed to be stopping voluntarily whenever there was anyone fairly close by. The others have all been amateur toys and pretty much without exception the pilots (all male) haven't seemed to give a damn. One was flying it just yards away from the main path (quite busy) out of Corrie Fee, while there was also one at the summit of Ben Cleuch on Ne'erday this year - again being flown just yards from other people and without any checking as to whether this was OK. It was typically swarm-of-bees noisy and a dog started barking relentlessly at it. Faced with the choice of saying something and potentially getting into an argument, or cutting short my lunch and heading off somewhere quieter, I chose the latter option.

Rigid Raider 30 May 2019
In reply to NBR:

Can you buy shotguns on Amazon?

 Tom Valentine 30 May 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

I think discharging a shotgun from the top of High Neb might land you in a spot of bother. However, I have seen a very interesting slingshot gun on You Tube with 12 rubbers so that would give you the choice of ammunition. For DIY stuff there is an absolutely bonkers German  on YT  with a site called "The Slingshot Channel" who comes up with the wildest devices, best being a flying bucket  with attached steak knives.

More sporting would be a R/C  Spitfire with airgun armament ( again on You Tube).

AS a non-violent type, though, I would probably go for a Hawker Tempest and simply flip the thing with a wingtip, as they reputedly did with doodlebugs in WW2.

Post edited at 12:57
 wercat 30 May 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

I think we aren't taking this seriously enough.  For a competent and experienced climber not exceeding their grade it might just be an annoyance but for anyone at any level who is pushing their current limit and needs every ounce of concentration the sound of an airborne object that can't be seen is a danger contributing to loss of concentration or consequences and if that happens at a critical moment it could be the difference between success and serious injury or worse. If you lose your nerve because of the noise and can't reverse hopefully your estate can sue the operator

Post edited at 13:01
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 Tom Valentine 30 May 2019
In reply to wercat:

I  don't climb any more so have never been hassled by one  but I can understand your point perfectly. I would find them an unpleasant distraction, I'm sure, even though I have to grudgingly concede that they have helped to make a massive advance in the filming of mountain scenery and activities.

I've been shocked by the abrupt arrival of low flying Jaguars and Tornados  in the past, though, and I'm not sure suing the RAF  would have been fruitful in the event of a fall. 

But the main argument is simple: a seasonal ban should be adhered to by drone pilots in the same spirit as climbers co-operate with bird-nesting restrictions. 

In reply to NBR:

In reverse chronological order:

Mobile phones/GPS units

Mountain bikes

Sport climbing

Friends

Chalk

Rubbers

All technological developments which caused a bit of a hoo har when they first came about and how now settled in to place. I am pretty sure that drones will head this list when the next big thing comes out, whatever it may be. 

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 Jamie Wakeham 30 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Right... except that it's not explicitly a criminal act to do any of the things on your list within 50m of another person.

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Give it 10 years then get back to me. 

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 wintertree 30 May 2019
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Like having a stereo at the crag but it's in the air following you. 

You know I’m blaming you know when this new anti-social invention of a personal flying stereo comes along...  

 Jamie Wakeham 30 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

You think that, given Gatwick, the law around drones is going to become more lax in the next decade?

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Rather than jumping on the bandwagon and damning drones outright, think about their uses. 

My local rescue team frequently uses them to locate casualties and to guide the lost home. Quick, easy and risk reduction all round. Much like the fuss over mobile phones, folks objected to their use in the hills until they realised the safety benefits. 

From a personal climbing view a drone could be used to confirm that nesting birds have left the route you have planned to do, the last peregrine I spoke to could not use a calendar. Drop one into a sea cliff to see if your route is dry or occupied, or the ledge overcrowded. Check out the state of that crucial peg, get some beta on the gear/holds (you set your own standards here). 

At home you could save your neck by not using a ladder to inspect your roof after that tile rattling storm, send the drone up instead.

Yes drones can be a pain but like everything else on my list they can be very useful too.

Just to restate. Please do not take out your frustrations by chucking stuff at them, your actions could hurt someone. 

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 Jamie Wakeham 30 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

I have no fundamental objection to drones and I perfectly see their many uses.  I object to untrained idiots using them illegally.

OP NBR 31 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

I don't think anyone is damming drones out right, just that buzzing one along a crag is inappropriate.

I do find your 'personal climbing view' a bit clutching at straws though, why didn't you add using the drone to clip/place first bit of pro'?

And as to the chucking stuff I don't think people are being overly serious, I mean someone suggested lobbing a Dragon 6 when we all know that an old style Camp size 11 Hex  is what you would really want.

 duchessofmalfi 31 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Don't be a bloody idiot.  You don't climb near nesting birds so as not to disturb them.  Same reason you shouldn't fly a drone near them (or any people).

Post edited at 08:20
In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Thanks for the promotion, this is such a lovely place. 

My suggestion must not have been sufficiently clearly worded. 

The suggestion is that AFTER THE RESTRICTIONS ARE LIFTED a drone could be used to confirm that the nest is empty. Particularly handy on seacliffs where you cannot get a clear view of the cliff. 

Have a lovely day my delightful new friend. 

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In reply to NBR:

> I do find your 'personal climbing view' a bit clutching at straws though, why didn't you add using the drone to clip/place first bit of pro'?

Your game, your rules. You may need a pretty heavy duty drone to do that. 

1
 duchessofmalfi 31 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Think it though...

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

I have done sweetie. 

Which would cause the least disruption, a climber assuming that Mr and Mrs protected pigeon had checked their diary and left on schedule then climbing through the nest. 

Or a short noisy flypast to check first? 

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In reply to duchessofmalfi:

This is all veering away from the topic, where my main thoughts are; the fuss surrounding drones will settle given historic evidence and don't chuck stuff at them. 

We can chat again in ten years and compare career progression my dearest. 

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OP NBR 31 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Got to call you out here.

Cut the 'dearest' and 'sweetie' it just makes you come across as a sexist twerp even if you did get called a 'bloody idiot'.

 Jamie Wakeham 31 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Do, please, come back in ten years. Leave it longer if you like.  In the meantime, if someone flies a drone illegally and dangerously close to me whilst I am climbing, I will continue to ask them to remove it, and if they refuse, then a handful of gravel in the rotors it will be. 

In reply to NBR:

Oh please, you have no idea of the gender of the duchess.

The lathering of praise and terms of endearment are to be taken as meant, an attempt at humour to defuse an offensive situation.

Have a great day cheeky chops. 

Post edited at 07:14
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In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

I hope you get held to account for the consequences of your(also illegal) actions. 

Post edited at 07:33
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 snoop6060 01 Jun 2019
In reply to NBR:

I generally don't give a monkeys how people behave at the crag normally. I can even tollerate large groups of prats shouting and playing music. But drones make me want to get into violent altercations. But I can't as I'm tiny, so will probably get beaten up. So I'm stuck for the day imagining all manor of violent things I might be able to do to the pilot if I was the height of a normal person. This did spill over at stanage once but luckily the pilot responded quite reasonably to my my incredibly aggressive approach. And about 30 people thanked me. I felt heroic. 

 summo 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> My local rescue team frequently uses them to locate casualties 

> From a personal climbing view a drone could be used to confirm that nesting birds have left the route you have planned to do,  

> At home you could save your neck by not using a ladder to inspect your roof after that tile rattling storm, send the drone up instead.

All valid reasons for staff from an mrt, rspb, or an inspection company to fly drones with appropriate permissions. 

But not any old clown to turn up with their own. 

 Jamie Wakeham 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

The Michael Winner defence against casual sexism hasn't really held for the last few years, you know.

What on earth makes you think my actions would be illegal?  The law around self defence is very well established.  If someone is flying a drone near me and my ropes, in a dangerous manner, and I've made loud and repeated attempts to get them to remove it, then I would be quite within my rights to remove the threat myself, in the safest and most proportionate manner.

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