UKH

Reports from climbers on problems with gear are much appreciated.

Just a request to make a distinction between a loose hanger and a loose bolt. The former is very common and usually easily rectified; the latter, of course, is something altogether more serious.

Thanks

A good distinction to make thanks. 

On this issue. I keep meaning to leave a suitable spanner / socket wrench with my sport rack to tighten a loose hanger nut. Can anyone confirm what diameter is most commonly needed for nuts on UK bolt hangers pls? I read on a US website that 9/16 inch (14mm) or half inch (13mm) are most common. Anyone confirm if this is so? 

In the UK the normal sizes of parabolts used - ie where a threaded stud protrudes and has a hanger attached with a nut - are 10mm and 12mm; so 13/14mm sounds a bit on the small side for the nut. From memory I think you need 17mm and 19mm, respectively. I'm sure somebody can confirm/correct.

17/19mm

Excellent thanks Jim.

As general interest, which parts of the UK use 12mm bolts?

Like Jim said above, a 10mm bolt's nut takes a size 17 spanner and a 12mm bolt's nut takes a size 19 spanner

Although I don't like adjustable spanners, they're a good option if you aren't planning on using them much, and you can nip maillons (quick links) closed and other things too. Cavers often carry a small adjustable spanner, knife and whistle because they're useful

The wealthier parts.

£7 from Halfords 17/19

https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-pr...

There's nothing worse than a cheap spanner. Get one made by someone like facom, gedore, bahco etc instead. A few £s more but won't round off nuts after you've used it a few times.

Becoming quite common at the lower-off I think (with 10mm bolts on the rest of the route).

I have a nut tool which doubles as a spanner, haven’t used the spanner yet so can’t say how great it is.

https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/torque-nut-tool.html
 

Found the nut tool ones not sturdy enough and not easy to use (the hanger gets in the way). Also you don't generally carry a nut tool on sport, so if you're carrying an extra tool then it may as well be a dedicated one. The nut key ones will get it a bit tighter than finger-tight but nothing like a spanner will do. I have a 17mm/19mm spanner on my sport rack and have used a few times. 

Some belays at Cheddar are 19mm

One thing I've learned to do when tightening hangers is put a glove on - it's so easy to slip and take the skin off your knuckles

Makes sense on trad routes with bolted belays. Ermmm.. I can't think of any of those in the UK though

Cheddar, Avon, a few at Wintour's Leap, Wyndcliffe Quarry. Quite likely in places where you have trad and sport side-by-side.

Upper Pen Trwyn and a load of other places where the landowner forbids access to the crag tops for erosion control and pedestrian safety.

Just looking at that long halfords spanner (above) -  its worth remembering that throughbolts have a min/max torque (how tight the bolt should be cranked) which can weaken the bolt if over-done. Each bolt has its own recommended torque, so without knowing the brand in the rock, its best to just nip it up until the hanger is not spinning, dont go crazy with the long-handled wrench.

Many nut keys have an appropriate socket. Some even have multiple different sizes for more exotic hangers. 

Same is true of glue ins. Resin anchors have low torque out resistance. 

It is a requirement that the design of the bolt prevents them from rotating, there is a torque resistance test in the standard and they shear off before they turn.

These are design affectations to make the nut key look cool. Good luck trying to torque up a nut satisfactorily with them.

Some more recently developed crags have a crag spanner left hanging from a bolt, great idea. 

Plenty of mixed bolt/trad routes on Dinorwic slate.

Sorted one at dinorwic satisfactorily this way the other day. As said above. Enough torque to stop the hanger spinning, short term fix oc, if it starts to do so again try again. Expansion type. 

Is it?  I'd describe that as a really bad idea.

If my googling is correct, uiaa 123 , the bolt standard, has a 150 Nm for sixty seconds torque test , no movement allowed.

IMHO and experience, a lot of older style glue ins can be removed with a long bar, turning rather than shearing off, which is what the earlier poster was implying.

I can imagine your bolts requiring far  more torque than 150 Nm to turn or shear off, whichever happens first. 

Why? 

Maybe this is a stupid question... here goes... but why isn't it widespread to use nylock nuts for mechanical bolts. I understand that loosening cann be at the wedge/rock interaction at the opposite end to the hanger, but in some cases it must be the actual nut and hanger being pulled about - in which case wouldn't nylock nuts help? They definitely make them in M12 (A4/316). Wouldn't this help?

There's nothing to tighten them against until the bolt pulls up, the inner core just turns.

That's a good point. But once the inner core has locked in position by tightening with a normal nut, the initial nut could then be replaced with a locking nut, perhaps? I've not done any bolting, so might be considered too much faff, on top of the work already needed to get that far!

Quite a randomly different thing to add to this, Metolius have brought out a hanger with a built in cone washer to resist the nut undoing which thought might be of interest to you what with your bolting tendancies... https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/spring-force-bolt-hanger.html 

Which doesn't help if the bolt/hanger comes loose since you can't tighten it again, same with Loctite.

As is the new Fixe hanger, whether it works we shall see!

Nice idea.

However this assumes that the rock is flat. The same effect can be achieved if a very slightly concave area is chosen to use  with a normal hanger.

So much to think about when placing a bolt.

Ha ha of course! it dawned on me just how daft that idea was as soon as I saw your reply. Face palm moment. I've used them on resin-in threaded rod (which of course won't turn) but that's not the same situation as climbing bolts.

Thanks, I think I must need more caffeine!

Interesting. Do you know where to get them in the uk? Can't find anywhere with a first search ...

No idea - try asking Beyond Hope as they are the Metolius distributors in the UK. I could fling a friend a message if you like.

... although you wouldn't think so, judging by where some bolts have been placed   :0