If you drop something...

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 gravy 22 Aug 2022

If you drop something down a crag/mountain/cliff then you should shout "below" - try not to waste time or confuse things with other words.

[If you hear "below" above you, don't look up, instead hunker down until danger has passed.]

If you're considering letting your stuff find it's own way to the bottom please check first that it's a good idea and no one else can be "inconvenienced", this might required negotiation or a rethink.

There appears to be a strange gap in skills at the moment - possibly due to COVID - and following a near miss* when someone thought it a good idea to let go of a "large item of kit" 50m above me (while I was 50m above the ground on insecure terrain) I figured it might be useful to get a few things straight.

I think both parties were fortunate that things turned out ok. I'd like to think the party above suffered a few sleepless nights about the way things might have turned out and I hope they will be more careful in the future.

* "near miss" in the sense that I was struck by the item but managed to hang on. The item, having bounced off my head and back, then proceeded to the bottom without touching anything else and, luckily, managed to avoid someone else by a few metres.

Post edited at 10:53
1
 JLS 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

I had an abseil rope chucked down on me yesterday while sitting at the base of the crag.  The lads shouted "below" but then immediately launched their rope before anyone could move from what is one of the popular resting/eating spots at the crag.

Post edited at 10:57
 Pedro50 22 Aug 2022
In reply to JLS:

If you do drop an ab rope you should shout "rope below". "Below" alone is to indicate a rock or something serious.

2
 jezb1 22 Aug 2022
In reply to Pedro50:

Or just “Rope”, and wait a few seconds before throwing.

Post edited at 11:10
9
 David Riley 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

While getting your point.  Looking up improves your chances in many situations.

1
 JLS 22 Aug 2022
In reply to Pedro50:

I can't recall the exact words they used. The important point is the lack of delay between the call and the rope coming down.

 steveriley 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

I'm not sure the actual words matter *that* much, just make sure you shout and leave a gap. Unless something's on the way already, don't leave a gap then. Happened to me once, someone chucked a rope in my direction, shouting as it left their hands. 

More recently a folded bouldering mat rolling down a steep hillside above, flew right over my head thankfully. Bit of warning would have been nice. Imagine the horror of being killed/injured by a piece of safety equipment.

 wiwwim 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

What do you say when there's a dog at the base of the cliff (some climbers have well natured dogs that wait patiently at the base))? I must admit the thought of this scenario went through my head at dewerstone the other week.  Would shouting "squirrel or rabbits" at least make them alert?

W

OP gravy 22 Aug 2022
In reply to jezb1:

Ropes are a different matter, we all know the established protocol for ropes is:

(1) throw

(2) look (to see what you hit)

(3) shout (vague attempt to cover your arse)

OP gravy 22 Aug 2022
In reply to steveriley:

Uh? you too?

As for words, about 50 words were uttered above me which were along the lines of "oh shit no what the f**k errm watch out errr shit shit shit look out, oi you, no no no, look out BELOW". Only on the word "below" did I press my head into the rock and take a firm grasp of the in-situ rope. 

Everything before was just lost in the general banter coming down from above. Lucky that word came when it did because I was leaning out, turned away talking to my climbing partner about Bill Withers and would have taken the mat square in the face and chest.

 Deri Jones 22 Aug 2022
In reply to wiwwim:

Dogs seem to have a better self preservation instinct than humans. Came back to the foot of Carn Dearg once to find my mate's dog looking a bit concerned under a boulder. "What're you doing there Stan?..." followed by a whirring noise and large thunk about 10ft away and us diving for cover under the same boulder.

 PaulJepson 22 Aug 2022
In reply to wiwwim:

I'll never chuck a rope down if there's a good boy/girl at the crag. If I have to ab then I'll leave the tails tied in and take it down with me. 

> What do you say when there's a dog at the base of the cliff (some climbers have well natured dogs that wait patiently at the base))?

1
 Eduardo2010 22 Aug 2022
In reply to PaulJepson:

I learned to climb in the states and was taught to shout rock, irrespective of whether it is a rock / phone / pad / belay device. 

Assume that is a reasonable alternative to below?

1
 Fruit 22 Aug 2022
In reply to JLS:

I’ve had a couple of near death experiences in similar  circumstances.  I caught one offender, it wasn’t pretty 😉

Shouting below then chucking stuff down is unacceptable and dangerous.

look, shout to alert then lower if possible, throw if no alternative.

Dont lower/throw if those below ask you not to.

it is an increasing problem now fewer people walk off crags, with many fixed ab points being above (often popular) routes.

Post edited at 13:46
 dan gibson 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

I agree with all the above points about shouting warnings to people below. I do see a lot of incidents of folk positioning themselves at the bottom of crags eating lunch or chilling, completely oblivious to what is happening above them.

If I was sitting at the base of a crag and was hit by a thrown rope, the first person I would be blaming would be myself for hanging out in a dangerous place.

The base of crags are never a safe place to be. 

4
 Sean Kelly 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

Dropping /throwing a coiled rope down the crag is no good for anyone below or the rope itself

 Always uncoil the rope and lower from one end. Only when it touches the ground do you need to shout rope below.

3
 steveriley 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

Enough to spoil a lovely day. Proper scary for a moment seeing a big Moon pad crash landing to earth. On the plus side I finished a long standing project soon after, incentivised possibly?

 jezb1 22 Aug 2022
In reply to wiwwim:

> What do you say when there's a dog at the base of the cliff (some climbers have well natured dogs that wait patiently at the base))? I must admit the thought of this scenario went through my head at dewerstone the other week.  Would shouting "squirrel or rabbits" at least make them alert?

> W

My dog knows “Rope” and gets well out of the way.

 jezb1 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

> Ropes are a different matter, we all know the established protocol for ropes is:

> (1) throw

> (2) look (to see what you hit)

> (3) shout (vague attempt to cover your arse)

I was replying to Pedro’s response.

 Kean 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

I was doing a route in Arco. Diedro Maestri. 600m. We were just a short way below the exit. A party was above us. Over half a kilometre below, I could just about make out some climbers starting up. Suddenly, I heard a "ting, ting" of dropped gear hitting rock, and a belay device sailed over my head, dropped by the party above. I have an enduring memory seared on my brain of hearing the belay device falling for an age, ricocheting off the wall again and again, followed by a woman's screams at the base. I have no idea of the outcome...

 Robert Durran 22 Aug 2022
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Dropping /throwing a coiled rope down the crag is no good for anyone below......

Only if it hits them.

> ......or the rope itself

I very much doubt it.

 Sean Kelly 22 Aug 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Only if it hits them.

> or the rope itself.

> I very much doubt it.

Check with the BMC Technical Committee on that Rob? I certainly don't intend to let my coiled ropes be slung down any cliff soon!

 Robert Durran 22 Aug 2022
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Check with the BMC Technical Committee on that Rob?

Do you have a link.

> I certainly don't intend to let my coiled ropes be slung down any cliff soon!

I always chuck mine if convenient. I can't believe it causes non-negligible wear.

OP gravy 22 Aug 2022
In reply to steveriley:

St Bees?

 Basemetal 22 Aug 2022
In reply to David Riley:

> While getting your point.  Looking up improves your chances in many situations.

Hearing "Below!" while descending open hillside from an aborted attempt on The Chasm on the Buachaille some years ago, we all looked up to see a half-fridge sized boulder trundling directly down on us. Just ducking would not have been good.

In reply to David Riley:

> Looking up improves your chances in many situations.

Or it can kill you. Better just to dive into the cover of the rock, immediately.

3
 65 22 Aug 2022
In reply to Eduardo2010:

> I learned to climb in the states and was taught to shout rock, irrespective of whether it is a rock / phone / pad / belay device. 

> Assume that is a reasonable alternative to below?

I'd say no, not here it isn't.

I've been away from climbing for a while but I'll assume that anyone in the British isles hearing "Below!" from above still knows immediately what it means. Why is an alternative needed? If someone shouts, "Below!" I don't have to think what it means, I'd just react. If I heard "Rock!" there might be a split second where I paused to think, "What?". Given the importance of the message, getting the right word that everyone else understands is hardly learning a new language.  

Rope and or Rope Below for chucking an ab rope down, Below for everything else. Even sheep.

 The Pylon King 22 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

What do you shout if you drop a sick tune?

 crayefish 23 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

What happened to 'HEADS"?

3
 Dave Garnett 23 Aug 2022
In reply to Sean Kelly:

>  Always uncoil the rope and lower from one end. Only when it touches the ground do you need to shout rope below.

Baffled by the dislikes - I always do this on single pitches.  It both saves pointless coiling and minimises the risk to anyone below.

 fmck 23 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

Oddly enough I quite like the smell of a high velocity rock impacting. Just dont like the bit before.

 steveriley 23 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

Helsby!

 wercat 23 Aug 2022
In reply to fmck:

having smelt that for a couple of horrible hours on a very icy N face on the Aiguilles Dorees years ago with smaller things whining past sounding like ricochet bullets and bigger rocks exploding as they hit the ice above and believing that life could end at any moment I can say I'm not so fond of that now.  Only the front points engaged in hard brittle ice and at the edge of my ablility there was no opportunity to dodge ...

Dead man climbing as it was the only rational option other than going to bits

(was supposed to be classic nice neve ascent)

Post edited at 09:28
 RX-78 23 Aug 2022
In reply to gravy:

Not climbing related, but my wife and I were recently hiking in the alps and sat down by the path for a rest and to admire the view. The path was cutting across a very steep slope. While sitting we both heard a series of thudding noises like a giant walking. We eventually looked towards the source of the sound and saw a large rock come to a stop not far from us. Looking up we saw no one except some sheep above us, so can only assume the sheep dislodged it. Sadly  no warning bleat!

 Alex Riley 23 Aug 2022
In reply to RX-78:

I've had a quite a few close calls where there have been multiple rocks falling, sometimes with a few seconds gap between.. I'm definitely in the quick glance up camp these days.


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