UKH

Just starting to climb some e3 and e4s and would love some suggestions to add to a summer Ticklist in n wales of safe trad routes from e3 to e5.

I have done cream and the mau mau which were great as I could lace them with loads of gear which gave me the confidence to carry on. Granted, perhaps not a great habit of mine, but I definitely don’t have the head for bold routes. 

Bazillions of them.

My favourites in the Pass:

Stroll On, Foil, Resurrection.

Godzilla and Centrefold at Rhoscolyn both have loads of gear. 

Ahh its you again!

I have limited experience but

At E3 on Cloggy. The Hand Traverse, Daurigol, The Shadow and Gecko Groove. I haven't done November but it's meant to have great gear and not hard for the grade.

At E4 on Cloggy again. Mordor is utterly brilliant, lots of gear but really sustained, I was so close to vomiting on this one, even seconding, but you will swan up it no doubt.

At E3 on Gogarth Upper Tier. Winking Crack and you also get to tick one of the best chapters of Extreme Rock.

At E3 on Gogarth. The Assassin, The Moon, Big Groove. Fat led me up Big Groove Direct at E4 which was superb, well protected and utterly desperate.

At E5 on Gogarth. Run Fast Run Free. Desperately hard for me, even seconding, but lots of gear. Positron has ok gear early on if you can hang around and the main pitch has gear with a clean fall in a fab position.

Bilbs.

Thanks will!

Good friend bilbo! 

There are lots of fantastic looking suggestions here, I shall enjoy ukc scrolling these this evening! a break from the mentally scarring book I have been trying to read! 

Hope you have a fun trip on Friday and Saturday! 

Add strike, supercrack, this years model, kalahari, at Gogarth

Snowdrop in Crafnant 

Kalahari?!?

Quasar, perhaps?

jcm

I'd agree with pretty much every route already suggested, apart from perhaps The Assassin (E3 5c) - safe enough but not in the same vein as most of the others.

Lots of great stuff at Rhoscolyn.  Big Boys (E5 6a) is probably the one to get on. The Sun (E3 5c) is great as a warm up and The Viper (E4 5c) had lots of gear. The Savage Sunbird (E2 5b) is ace but definitely much bolder. I also didn't have any problems with the lower section on Warpath (E5 6a) and there's definitely good gear on the headwall - I didn't manage the moves but I did test the fall, several times.

Trying to out-mad the moon.

Serious suggestions : the e3 and e4 on the same bit of Holyhead mountain. 

Most of the e4s at tremadog, but you know that already

The stuff on hidden wall in the pass is reasonably well protected. 

On slate the manatese is like the mau mau but harder then in the bottom of Australia there is the wow wow which is harder again (although perhaps not so bad with small fingers?).

Penny (Katana) (E4 6a)

Line of the crag.

True Grip is good on the cromlech, probably a touch harder than resurrection and bombs right up the middle of the wall into the direct finish of left wall (which is also ace). 

The Moon is perfectly safe no? Loads of gear!

Yes the Moon is definitely covered in gear. Also on yellow walls - the Cow is a super safe E5 if you can hang on long enough to place the gear. Elsewhere at Gogarth - Graduation Ceremony E4 is a good intro to the harder stuff on main cliff. The safest of the E5s on main cliff are Citadel and Positron, Hunger isn't too bad either, Dinosaur is a bit bold feeling after the chimney and Mammoth is safe but pretty hard! If you cruise those Alien is a totally safe E6, and protectable almost entirely with cams if you take a double set (a good idea on main cliff in general). climbing the P2 traverse of Rat Race into the Positron head wall is a great way to access that pitch and probably brings the overall grade down to E4. On the upper tier Run Fast run Free and The Cruise are both totally safe, but harder than any of the crux pitches of the main cliff E5, except maybe Mammoth. (Remember - upper tier E5s are graded for one pitch, the main cliff E5s are graded for the commitment as well as the actual climbing).

I'm surprised Penny on Holyhead mountain has been mentioned, start felt a bit bold to me. Might have been a bad day though.

Positron (E5 6a) felt safe to me.

Kalahari Highway (E4 6a) is also great and the crux is well protected. You also get to do the amazing roof pitch of Free Stone Henge.

The Moon (E3 5c) just amazing.

Silly Arete (E3 5c) it feels bold but if you stay in the crack over the roof for a short while it i fine.

The Weaver (E2 5c) is great if you have not done it but only E2.

Dinorwig Unconquerable (E3 5c) you need many thin hand sizes cams to make it feel safe, but is a jamming test piece.

Supercrack (E3 5c) reaching the crack feels bold then its well protected.

The Big Groove (E3 5c) don't remember this being bold, but memory has faded a bit.

Main Wall (E2 5b), only E2 but heads up around the big E5s on Main cliff, so great place to be.

Rimsky Korsakov (E5 6a) I remember it being OK if you don't pass any gear. I did and got scared/committed!

The Wrinkled Retainer (E5 6c) Although caff lead the start so made it look effortless and well protected.

Foil (E3 6a) classic well protected but sustained.

The Mask of the Red Death (E3 5c)

Generally all the routes mentioned so far seem sensible.

Top pitch is just pathetic old pegs for ages? Always felt like a bold adventure route without technical difficulties rather than safe and hard to me... 

Great going to check this out today!

Thanks mark. We are going to be at gogarth tomorrow so useful suggestions thanks! Do join if your around

Thanks Ben some great information here much appreciated !

Thanks mark, led the weaver the other day and thought it was fantastic! The top bit where it joins last bit of vector was hard too! I chose the safer way and stayed left in the cracks instead of right in the groove !

Does anyone know how Foil and Stroll On compare to The Big Groove Direct or some of the other E4's listed?

Cheers

Edit: Apologies for the hijack 

The Big Groove (E3 5c) has been mentioned a couple of times but I thought it was quite bold on the crux pitch off the belay.

This isn't going to be very helpful, but I remember Big Groove Direct feeling quite soft. Foil and Stroll On are the real deal and - at least in my opinion - both harder, despite the easier grade.

I'm unsure as to whether any other members of the human race would agree with me on this, but there you go. I was climbing at Gogarth a lot at the time, but then again I was climbing a lot in the Pass too, so who knows...

Being a lover of Main Cliff I am clearly biased, but I would say that each of the big E5's - Positron (E5 6a), Hunger (E5 6a), Citadel (E5 6b), Dinosaur (E5 6a)*, Mammoth (E5 6b) - are well protected + strenuous outings that are good things to throw yourself at, as they guarantee a good tussle. If you onsight them, great; if you don't, go ground-up! 

Another one that doesn't get talked about too much is New Dimensions on Castell y Gwynt. I did the whole thing in a single pitch (35ish  metres) and thought it was utterly amazing, you just need to be a bit crafty with your ropes + extenders. Even as two pitches it'd be amazing, plus you could be more liberal with your protection this way as drag would be less of an issue. Got to be one of the wildest crags in Wales, despite its close proximity to the road.

* ok, the top of P1 is a bit run-out, but it's a safe fall, which may/may not fit within your criteria

I did that bit three times. Once as a finish to Nimbus (my first E2, didn't fancy my chances on the Snake link-up at the time), once as the finish to Vector, once on The Weaver.

It felt harder each time.

Thanks, it's been on the list for a while (so was Metal Guru, but hey-go can't have em all).

Off to Bosigran next week, so I expect most North Wales E3's will feel easy by comparison when I get back.

I bet Quasar won’t. Or New Dimensions, come to that.

jcm

Have you done the ‘big three’ at Bosigran: Kafoozalem, Raven Wall and Ghost? If not, they’re all amazing. Probably that order of difficulty too, with Kafoozalem being the hardest by far (it’s no joke...). I remember others feeling much, much more reasonable in comparison.

Have fun anyhow, I bloody love it down there...

Na it'll be our first time South of Pembroke. They all look great tbh, Dream Liberator is at the very top of my list and has been for some time, but I suspect I'll need a bit more in the tank than what I've got atm. I'll see how the others go first and if they don't send me running back north with my tail between my legs...

Really psyched to try Kafoozalem though

I've looked at Quasar but it had a team on it so I ended up on Stroll On which I found pretty hard but I didn't get a warm up in first. I'd say it was harder than Foil though which I thought pretty steady as long as you don't stop.

It's traditional on these types of threads for me to recommend Hyndsight (E4 6a) but even I can't pretend it's well protected,brilliant though it is. Others not so far mentioned:

Killerkranky (E5 6b)

Cadwaladr (E3 6a)

Crimson Cruiser (E5 6a)

Day of Reckoning (E3 5c) obviously you'd want to do The Exterminating Angel (E3 5c) on the same day which I don't think is particularly safe but if you are gunning for E5 should be fine.

No match for climb id:126100 although I think someone said the peg had gone?

Demetreus (E3 6a)

Of the ones previously mentioned I'd say Hunger and Quasar are a bit pokey.

Quasar definitely fits the bill. It was my first E3, albeit over 10 years ago now so my recollection may not be perfect. For the 6a move you can place lots of bomber gear from a good rest I seem to recall. 

There’s been a few threads about this over the years but anyway...

Tremadog - Void, Vulcan, Fingerlicker

The Pass - Foil, Resurrection (bit bold at the start), Stroll On

Cloggy - November. Great Wall is a bit bold in places but ok. The Axe is ok.

Rhoscolyn - Warpath, The Viper, Centrefold are ok  

Main Cliff - most of the E4s and E5s are actually fairly solid and have decent gear (for the grade), plus they’re steep. Positron, Dinosaur, Citadel, Hunger, Mammoth, Graduation Ceremony and The Camel of the ones I’ve done

South Stack - The Moon, Kalahari, Welcome to Glastonbury and The Cow are all ok for what and where they are... which is to say they aren’t chossy and there is gear

Upper Tier - Strike, Run Fast, Run Free and The Cruise meant to be / look safe (for the grade) but not done them yet. Winking Crack if you have big cams (BD cam 5 and 6 size). Achilles. 

Thought Godzilla was bold at the start and then the hanging flakes are a bit dubious.

Big Groove has a nasty start to the main pitch with tricky moves above small gear and the belay is off to the side, with a big ledge to deck onto. Not my idea of safe!

My log for Assassin speaks for itself: “I did P2, which featured steep, airy moves above a couple of RPs, then a bit of a breather before a vertical wall on good crimps (gear pumpy to place), a dynamic move to a jug in the rightward slanting crack (what's all this stuff in the Rockfax about spanning out left to the arete?) and a tricky shuffle onto a ledge.” 

The crux moves on True Grip onto the sloping ledge are gripping as the name suggests, though seem to recall a decent cam just below. 

I can attest that the wingers off Dinosaur and Mammoth are good fun and safe... On Dinosaur you get a massive swing into space and end up having to reclimb most of the pitch to get back up to the crux!

The Moon isn’t that bold for South Stack. Both pitches have enough normal gear, you don’t need to rely on the pegs. 

I thought about mentioning Killerkranky but had a bad experience on it due to kicking out a crucial runner on the crux, which left me facing a potential groundfall from just above the crux, with another 5c move or two to go. Managed to get some decent kit in so was ok in the end. I suppose it’s ok if you don’t kick out the wire or place a cam...

Isn't Left Wall Direct meant to be quite good? 

She just shudda asked u directly seems uv bloody climbed everything in N Wales!!

I thought this was amazing too, really underrated little crag too. Broadsword (E2 5c) and Morgan La Faye (E3 5c) were both great too, although I vaguely remember Broadsword having a bold section on P2 (and that it was obscenely hard for E2).