UKH

Guidebook writer changing route names

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Some years ago, in the week that Margaret Thatcher died, I did a new route in Penmaenbach Quarry which I named 'Rejoice'. It was a dig about the crass remark Thatcher made to the press at the end of the Falklands conflict (904 people killed).

The route appeared in subsequent guidebooks under that name but I note that in Mike Doyle's new A55 Guide the route name is now given as Regret.

Hmm, I wasn't aware that Guide Book authors could change route names because they don't like the sentiment expressed. But if its that easy to change a route name then surely as the first ascentionist I can now also choose to re-name the route.

So for Mr Doyle's next guide book could I ask that he record that particular climb as 

"She was a bit of a c**t, really"

9
 The Pylon King 11 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

Totally agree with you.

3
 The Pylon King 11 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

I did a new route that week that I called Ding Dong The Witch is Dead. No-one could change it because I am the guidebook author and publisher!

Post edited at 15:12
6
 john arran 11 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

Very much aware that I rarely agree with you on these forums, but in this case I'm happy to make an exception. I can see a justified case in renaming routes that are likely to be seen as offensive (even if the intention was quite different) to a newcomer, but to change a name that's simply a perfectly ordinary dictionary word, based on a history that no doubt isn't even explained in the book, is just plain daft.

In this case, to then change it to a virtual antonym seems to me equally offensive, by much the same reasoning.

3
 Donotello 11 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

How do you know it’s not just a typo? Making some mad assumptions here that seem far more unlikely than it was just a typo / error. 

15
 DaveHK 11 Sep 2021
In reply to Donotello:

> How do you know it’s not just a typo? Making some mad assumptions here that seem far more unlikely than it was just a typo / error. 

I reckon a deliberate change is far more likely than a typo!

1
 The Pylon King 11 Sep 2021
In reply to Donotello:

Thats gonna be some seriously bad guidebook work if they accidentally put 'Regret' instead of 'Rejoice'!

 veteye 11 Sep 2021
In reply to The Pylon King:

Back in 2007 I went new routing with Andrew Fraser in Galloway, I think near Dungeon of Buchan, and we did about 7 new routes that day. One was a route that I lead and was above a really good piece of gear, and then pulled on a vertical slim piece of rock which then came out of its slot like a Times World Atlas, and consequently I fell. Unfortunately my belayer, Andrew's friend, was paying attention elsewhere, and so he did not hold me, and hit the deck. Initially it did not register with me, but I actually did not fall over, which was surprising as the grass beneath the climb was at an angle, and I just had a few cuts and bruises. 

I climbed the route then with no further setbacks, and having just ascended Denali about a week-ten days before, I thought the alliterative name of Denali Downfall would suit the route.

When relayed via Andrew somehow thereafter it became labelled something else to do with Denali. I still prefer my original name for the route. From memory it is a severe. (Maybe I should get the guidebook).

 Offwidth 11 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

Oh well.... when I was doing BMC editorial work with grimer and co we undid several censorious name changes from the previous series.

The change you report is so odd that there must be more to it....  was the reason behind the name published in the FA lists?

The names changes that annoy me most are those based on retro claims of lower grade climbs with well established names that were almost certainly soloed in an earlier generation than the retro claim.

1
In reply to colin struthers:

Completely outside of the sport of ukc discussion, have you tried questioning the guidebook writer? 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

> Completely outside of the sport of ukc discussion, have you tried questioning the guidebook writer? 

What on Earth does this mean?

"Completely outside the sport of UKC discussion"?

Do you understand the meaning and appropriate use of nouns?

And a verb wouldn't go amiss.

Oh, and then you could put them together in the right order.

It's called a coherent sentence.

72
In reply to colin struthers:

Makes complete sense to me. Nouns and verbs too. 

In reply to colin struthers:

OK then, I will explain in simplified terms:

UKC is well known as a forum where one can enjoy conversational jousting, this is why I have risen to your bait. 

You know the name of the author in question, finding contact details for them would not be difficult. Contacting the author would not be much fun, you would probably get a mundane explanation (I suspect a typo leading to an autocorrect change), apology and correction in the next guide. 

Instead of this, you are finding it more enjoyable to propose a conspiracy theory and hope for a few bites. 

If you want the truth go to the source, if you want some fun post on a forum. 

1
 SouthernSteve 12 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

There is quite a history of this. The Squirrels Climbing Club (I think) put up a crag with many sexual orientated names, but these have been changed as they were considered offensive. It is almost 40 years since I climbed that crag - so apologies for the vagueness. I went back to look up a particular climb after the event and couldn't find it at all. Some names would likely be redacted on here.

If the last 18 months on this forum have taught us anything it is that it good to have some separation from politics in our sports. However, Rejoice does seems very innocuous. 

1
 Cog 12 Sep 2021
In reply to SouthernSteve:

> There is quite a history of this. The Squirrels Climbing Club (I think) put up a crag with many sexual orientated names, but these have been changed as they were considered offensive. 

The names of the Squirrels routes at Creag Dubh have not been changed.

 SouthernSteve 12 Sep 2021
In reply to Cog:

Thanks. I have just checked – you are right. I am obviously completely wrong having looked at the crag on the database on here today. I was or obviously am having a senior moment! The good thing is I can now label an old picture of a young me on the crag. ta.

leaves embarrassed..........

Post edited at 09:32
 Cog 12 Sep 2021
In reply to veteye:

> I climbed the route then with no further setbacks, and having just ascended Denali about a week-ten days before, I thought the alliterative name of Denali Downfall would suit the route.

> When relayed via Andrew somehow thereafter it became labelled something else to do with Denali. I still prefer my original name for the route. From memory it is a severe. (Maybe I should get the guidebook).

Denali De-Brief 10m HS?

Get in touch with the SMC, they are working on a new guidebook.

 bpmclimb 12 Sep 2021
In reply to colin struthers:

> The route appeared in subsequent guidebooks under that name but I note that in Mike Doyle's new A55 Guide the route name is now given as Regret.

Completely out of order, IMO.

 veteye 12 Sep 2021
In reply to Cog:

Ah yes. I think that you are correct.

The word downfall related to the rock coming away, and the fact that my belayer did nothing to help reduce my fall. It was just me being a bit tongue in cheek, and it may be Andrew trying to protect his friend from hassle. Yet afterwards, I bore him no ill will.


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