Draw surfing

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 rachelpearce01 24 Feb 2021

So the situation, a deserted crag with around 20 or 30 routes. A trio rock up, one guy has a project and has a warm up burn on that. Then the belayer begins showing interest in the route we were on, I happily talk about the route and share some beta. He asks if we go again, and we do and then strip it and move onto the next route to the right. Same thing happens, he belays his friend on his project, and then starts showing interest in the next route we are trying and asks if we climb again and if he can have a go.

I enjoy working routes with people and happily share draws. What’s annoying though is when someone turns up to a deserted crag with ample routeS to choose from, and decides to pick whatever you put the draws in. I was fine the first time he asked, thinking he had an interest in the same route. But when we took the draws out and moved them into the next route, this was now the one he wished to try!

Maybe I’m just a grumpy Brit that isn’t used to this etiquette. But I did hear from some friends who were climbing at a crag with a 45 minute walk in, when some climbers repeatedly turned up at the crag without a set of draws with the intention of just getting on whatever route someone else was on.

does anyone else have much experience of this ?! If I go to a crag and there’s people on a route, unless that was the only route I wanted to do and reason I was there (in which case I might ask politely), otherwise I would just get on something else. This was the first time the guy has been to the crag so he had every route to choose from, plus we weren’t even on the crag classics although everything’s good. 

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 gravy 24 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

stop moaning!

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In reply to gravy:

You’re probably right ! 

 mike lawrence? 24 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

It sounds like the issue is George's likeable personality?

1
J1234 24 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

I could be way off, but I know a lot of men think if a woman/girl/lady can do it, so can they.

Not me, I like climbing with women, they do not get embarrassed when I cry.

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 George_Surf 24 Feb 2021
In reply to mike lawrence?:

Haha. I also told Rach to stop moaning... but you know what she's like when she gets mad. You want to know the really funny thing? She told the guy to strip it just to spite him (its a major steep 8a and would have been a pain) only for her to have to go and put the draws back in first thing tomorrow morning (insecure knee barring so not mega easy to re-equip plus you're never far from falling out in space on not being able to get back on)!! Classic

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In reply to J1234:

No certainly not on this occasion, I think it was more that it was the only route at the crag (except a 9a+) which had draws in. He didn’t seem so keen for the 9a+ 🤔

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J1234 24 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

> No certainly not on this occasion, I think it was more that it was the only route at the crag (except a 9a+) which had draws in. He didn’t seem so keen for the 9a+ 🤔

9a+ even looking at that would make me cry

 FreshSlate 24 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

That's quite odd behaviour, was this a particularly steep crag? I can only imagine someone doing this because they lack the equipment, or the confidence to finish / recover the draws from a difficult route? 

Maybe they had one set of draws between them and his mate had them all on his project. Awkward, but that's between him and his mate to sort out. 

First world problems though, hey ho. 

 henwardian 25 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

At a guess, maybe the belayer wanted to get some climbing done but was there primarily so the first climber could try his project. If everything at the crag is steep, hard to put draws in and at or beyond the limit of this belayer it's logical that he might think "hey, I can get a go at a hard (for me) route without getting my draws stuck or having to ask my hero mate to get them back for me".

Or maybe they just forgot their draws.

Or maybe coincidentally he actually did just like the look of the same routes you liked.

Or maybe he was using it as an excuse to chat to other people at the crag, if it was deserted and lots of sport climbers are chatty to whoever is at the crag.

Or maybe he was attracted to you and wanted to have an excuse to chat to you and climb the same routes as you.

It's pretty hard to know what the reason was without asking

In terms of crag etiquette threads on UKC, it seems like a pretty minor breach to have irritated you so much. I dunno, maybe you had to be there to find how annoying it was.

Post edited at 10:37
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 Ciro 25 Feb 2021
In reply to henwardian:

> In terms of crag etiquette threads on UKC, it seems like a pretty minor breach to have irritated you so much. I dunno, maybe you had to be there to find how annoying it was.

I dunno, I'm always happy to share routes with people, but I think I'd find it pretty annoying if a stranger was specifically following me around climbing whatever I put the draws on, to save themselves the bother - I like to think that's a 2 way street. If they're worried about getting to the top of something, I'd happily loan them a clip stick in the event that they got stuck.

 Jon Read 25 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

A good reason not to replace those old tatty quickdraws on your rack...

In reply to henwardian:

Unfortunately I don’t think it was any of those reasons.

He was a way stronger climber than me and flashed the 8a, he did have quick draws as he did a warm up climbing a 6c barefoot. Although maybe not many quick draws as he didn’t put one in the chains to lower off (another Red Cross 😅). 

His partner wasn’t wanting much climbing time, he was red pointing it so as soon as he fell off he came straight back down. And only wanted 3 goes (it was actually the 9a+!). 

we were happily chatting already and I was psyched to share beta with him the first time round. What was annoying was how he seemingly completely lost interest in that route once I took the draws out, and now wanted the beta for the next route we tried. 
 

yeah it does seem rather minor to get a bee in my bonnet about but it was rather annoying at the time ! 

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In reply to Ciro:

Yeah I like sharing routes and beta too. I was psyched first time round to share beta, what was annoying was how he somehow lost interest in the first route once the draws were out and wanted the beta for the next route we were trying!

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 MischaHY 25 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

It does just sound like he was looking for an easy flash really. Fair enough, but opens him up massively to horrible sandbag 'beta' which of course you've seen loads of people use before 😉 Very appropriate and fitting with climbing tradition 😁

 Andy Moles 26 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

I was pretty grumpy, having encouraged some people to go ahead and use some draws that I was leaving in place overnight, when I came back the following day to find that on a clip which I'd extended, they had clearly been clipping into the mid-link carabiner and falling on/lowering off it, such that the nylon of the sling was significantly damaged.

Pretty basic negligence.

Not the same issue but somewhat related, and I felt like having a vent.

In reply to Andy Moles:

haha I can sympathise with that too, perhaps even worse this!!! If someone did that to my dmm's they'd be getting a bill. 

I had actually put a chain on one of the hard bits, and he had clipped it like an extender and hadn't re clipped and I thought he was going to take a screamer!

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In reply to rachelpearce01:

This is why we took back control! 

Down with these dirty foreign practices, I am writing to Nigel Porridge about this, he will fix it. 

 George_Surf 27 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

in some strange fate of karma, it turns out the guy that didnt want to put his draws in anything actually ended up giving us one of HIS nice dmm draws in the bundle he returned to us after stripping the route. We only just noticed and we'll probably see him again to return it but how about that.... everyone likes a happy ending 

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 Misha 27 Feb 2021
In reply to rachelpearce01:

> Maybe I’m just a grumpy Brit that isn’t used to this etiquette.

I think you're just being grumpy!

 Mick Ward 28 Feb 2021
In reply to George_Surf:

> in some strange fate of karma, it turns out the guy that didnt want to put his draws in anything actually ended up giving us one of HIS nice dmm draws in the bundle he returned to us after stripping the route. We only just noticed and we'll probably see him again to return it but how about that.... everyone likes a happy ending 

It would indeed be nice to have a happy ending to this. It's a good feeling to get people's stuff back to them.

A couple of years ago, a visiting Austrian couple left some quickdraws in a route at Portland. I took them, otherwise they'd have been speedily nicked as 'crag swag' (two words I detest). It took several people's efforts for me to find the couple and return the draws - but I did. The bloke seemed bemused that anyone would go to such trouble (I think they were pretty affluent; they'd simply gone out and bought replacements). I rather clumsily explained that, although our politicians were being complete pillocks re Europe (and they were!) it didn't stop us, in our little climbing world, behaving better. The lady beamed and said, "Hey, we still love you guys!" Sounds silly but it really made my summer. It's the feeling that little things can still make a difference (combats the 'learned helplessness' of our times).

So here's to another happy ending...

Mick

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In reply to rachelpearce01:

So he only had one burn on both routes? I really cant see the issue. Had he of been dogging like f*ck and taking ages I might feel a bit more pissed. You should be grateful that you're out climbing whilst 90% of climbers over here haven't been on a sport climbing trip in a year! 

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