UKH

Picked out of the other thread, just wanted to ask:

1) is it true, as some have suggested, that the locals on Portland hate climbers?

2) if so, why?

I've been there loads of times and never had any negative interaction with the locals (quite the opposite, usually), and I've never seen climbers doing anything that would be aggravating or irritating to the locals.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

May be parking on that road which you use to access Battleship. Some people don't park in a particularly considerate manner.

May be also staying in vans in various locations and going for a brazen shit nearby. A practice which always disgusts me - is it really too much of a bother to go to the toilet in Tesco or, better still, visit one of the cafes (ah but that would involve spending money...).

Generally visiting the place without contributing anything to it, apart from the chippie perhaps (The Codfather is pretty good!). Albeit that's hardly a big problem.

I've never had any issues myself. 

I wonder how we could contribute to Portland more? 

In reply to Misha:

Shitting outdoors really is indefensible when there's also the free toilet opposite the co-op. 

I'll usually get a few beers and a meal in one of the pubs, snacks from co-op/Tesco, often breakfast at the Sugar Loaf cafe. That's not out of any sort of good will in the abstract, just because I'm lazy and greedy and prefer 3 coffees in order to wake up.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

With no answer to the why, but from my climbing friends who live on Portland, the answer is yes. Sadly. Not all of course, but as is the case with many situations, the people who are upset the most make the most noise about it, thus giving a sense that it is probably worse than it actually is.

In reply to Misha:

I worked in Bristol for a year a while back, went for a dump in the local ASDA once, the locals were not happy!

In reply to Taylor's Landlord:

"Clean up in aisle three"...

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Plenty of people in tourist areas seem to hate visitors, you'd think from some of their attitudes that they never go on holiday themselves. This isn't to say we couldn't all try to be a bit more courteous.

In reply to OnlineClimber:

And this is really showing now in some places. I'm guessing these are people who don't work in the local tourist industry.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

This is news to me. That would have saved me a lot of holding in shits for multiple hours if I'd known about it.. 

What does Portland have going for it other than tourism? I genuinely don't know much about the place. 

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

Aren't there still some working quarries? Dunno, only been there once.

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

Rabbits?

In reply to AlanLittle:

Yes, one or two. There's also that ominous looking industrial estate / building beyond Battleship. Not sure what happens there, if anything.

In reply to Misha:

Fixed that for you.

In reply to Taylor's Landlord:

It's because you didn't pronounce it correctly.  Everyone from Bristol would call it ASDAL.

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

It has a decent prison 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Portland

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Parking has been the source of a lot of friction in the past - Reap Lane and up by the walkers/climbers car park at Blacknor - and obviously noone likes Van camping/waste issues as I've heard there can be around the Cheyne car park.

I saw some forwarded on posts and numerous comments about how the flocking of climbers in the last weekend or so before lockdown really got people's backs up.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Yes - those who have their drives obstructed or who cannot park near their homes at weekends. Just one or two incidents of this type have been causing issues for 30 years now. Even when there were only a couple of dozens climbers using Portland regularly we were having issues. I remember, before the car park had been built at the top of Blacknor, parking in a location that had been recommended by the Portland Warden and the police, and getting significant abuse from a local. 

Reap Lane regularly has dozens of climbers' cars and vans parked down it, limiting parking available for residents. Same for parking areas for Blacknor and The Cuttings. Of course they don't like it. They don't consider how much we spend at the shops and The Cove Inn at the end of the day. 

There was once a headline in the Dorset Echo claiming that climbers were forcing seagulls from the cliffs and into peoples back gardens. Nonsense of course, but something that had to be dealt with. Believe it or not, climbers are still using bird-restricted areas during the nesting season. 

Back when I was a BMC Access rep, along with Neal Heanes and Scott Titt, we had to use our own time to attend meetings, working groups etc. with local police, bird watchers, wardens and councillors to address these issues. This is the reason that some of the current car parks exist and the posting of bird restriction notices on the cliffs.

This current situation could end up being more ammunition for those locals who have a bit of a grudge against climbers, and know a keen reporter or two. I can imagine "Climber hoardes descend on Portland" being a headline in the Dorset Echo in the next week. 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I remember reading a Bernard Cornwell novel once, I forget the title but he tends to write his characters into genuine historical events, does a fair amount of research etc. 

Basically in this particular book,  set in the 4th or 5th century the characters end up having to go to Portland and it's essentially painted as a lunatic asylum, full of all the lost souls of the south of Britain with guards keeping them on the island for the safety of everyone else.

Maybe something in this? ;p

In reply to steve taylor:

I see. Sigh. 
 

FWIW, when I was down at Cheyne at the end of March I shouted at people not climb on the bird banned main cliff. As they were all holding their Rockfax books as they wandered down, and presumably could all read, there really wasn’t any excuse. 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

However, a lot of public toilets across the country are closed at the moment.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Fair, but it was always open before lockdown! 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

As a resident of Portland for the last 35 years and known to some locals as a climber I do get comments, sometimes moaned at and occasionally asked "can't you do something about it" so yes there is a view that climbers are not welcome within certain groups of the community.

It's fair to say that some locals don't like people coming to "their island" doing strange things, so fishermen, divers and sailors for instance are welcome, climbers less so because they don't understand climbing.

There are also some genuine grievances, particularly regarding parking, van camping, large groups blocking paths - tha approach to The Cuttings comes to mind here. There have been incidents where climbers have been threatened and the police have had to be called. I would hesitate to call these residents locals though, large numbers of families were brought in from Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester and rehomed in the old naval estates to give them a fresh start, you can draw your own conclusions here.

The first weekend of lockdown was quite possibly Portlands busiest ever day. The local Facebook group pages were, quite understandably, alive with anger at outsiders bringing their diseases here and it sort of became the last straw in some peoples eyes.

I must say though that as an outsider I have always found the genuine locals friendly and welcoming but as climbers we do need to show some respect for "their island" and not just treat it as a free climbing wall.

In reply to johnl:

Completely agree on the last sentence, and those who have mentioned contributing to the island. When myself and friends visit we tend to try and stay at the bunkhouse/YHA before camping, buy food at a local restaurant/pub, park in the climbers car park (and pay for it) if on the West side, and generally be good visitors.

Not to point fingers, but others I know who make the same London to Portland trip regularly try to spend as little money as possible, wild camp conspicuously or van camp, and park wherever they can for free, even if it gets in the way of locals.

In the latter case it's no wonder why they would view climbers as a nuisance. Going forward as a community we should definitely be thinking more about visiting responsibly, rather than just visiting.

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

There is a machine shop / fabrication yard H/T Portland we quite often use for frames, smallish jobs etc.. for work, and they do a good job. I like sending work there as I am fond of the island, and it feels in a small way giving back. 

I understand the locals getting a little upset, and Portland seems to have got a lot busier over the 5 years. Climbing has also changed from an esoteric sport to quite mainstream whether we like it or not, with a lot of climbers having decent jobs.

 I always feel its important to contribute to the local economy, eat / drink in the pubs, local restaurants, etc.. If you can afford a campervan then surely you could afford to contribute. I guess its changing the perception from unwanted guests to contributors.  

For most folk that live there Portland is grim and grimble.

The fact that it is build on a playground for privileged idlers and some of these privileged idlers tend to treat the amenities with disdain doesn't help.

It's a shame that easier kicks are to be had by throwing bottles and trundling fridges over the heads of climbers is seen as more accessible sort of local entertainment than climbing in their own yard.

In reply to Misha:

There are six official working quarries by Albion Stone and Portland Stine, both producing highly desireable stone cladding for fancy buildings in Mayfair and The City. Appart from that there’s a fair bit of defence supplier chain, with Qineyic and Todds defence having ‘Factories’ there. The HM Prison and Young offenders facilities are a big employer on the island. Portland Marina is run by Dean & Reddyhoff and quite desireable and are looking at expanding the offering. Then there’s the heliport next to it that does a lot of training. That estate on Chesil Beach is quite a good employer. Next to the navy base they are planning a new waste incinerator despite local opposition. Up in Easton there’s another industrial estate that Misha mentioned that houses a big electrical engineering firms, supplies electric motors all over the UK. Then you have the local tourist trade like the bunkhouse and supermarkets. So a fair bit going on and if the climbers never showed up again I don’t think they would be bothered. 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Some do. Particularly the guy that put signs up above Blacknor saying climbing was banned. I once heard a story about him producing a shotgun......

Also the owners of the pub in Easton in the 90’s who had a policy of not serving climbers. I think the main issues are locals objecting to stuff like thoughtless parking. The vast majority are fine but Portland has an Island mentality. Even people from the rest of Dorset can be regarded with suspicion and referred to as grockels.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

For what I’ve learned Portland residents are generally apprehensive about any outside visitors, whether they are cyclist, day trippers, divers or climbers, as not much of the economy relies on them. I’ve never felt particularly welcomed there, always keeping an eye out and trying to be extra careful with parking and so on. I’ve never seen anyone on the FB group mentioning climbers crapping everywhere, but maybe they have done in the past, but there’s way more complaints about dog walkers not picking up their poo.  

In reply to I like climbing:

The shotgun incident was to do with a beef with his neighbour - nothing to do with climbers. https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/5363779.gun-neighbour-facing-prison/

In reply to John2:

Yes - I've met the guy... He spoke to us a few times in the early days and was more concerned about our safety than anything else - he was quite pleasant in face to face situations.

The signs above Blacknor were true, once numbers started increasing. He got a bit pi$$ed off that ropes were being tied to his fences for abseiling-in.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I've been climbing regularly on Portland for over 25 years and have never had a problem. No car damage, no comments, nothing. The odd "Slaugtered Lamb" look when entering a pub, but nothing I haven't had anywhere else.

Does every local I say hello to whilst walking in to the crag give a cheery response? No. So what. They don't have to.

I got to know some locals working in the shops and cafes quite well on a superficial customer level and they were always welcoming and pleasant. Yes, they're more likely to, working in hospitality, but all the staff in the large supermarkets and gas stations have always been polite and welcoming.

The only place I found a bit weird was that shop, now closed, on the main road up in Fortuneswell, with a big lobster in it . The owner wasn't too happy when we spent hours walking around, touching stuff and never buying anything.

In reply to Climber_Bill: Yeah I've only been a couple of times but I didn't think it was any different to other climbing locations in terms of local friendlyness. eg North Wales, Lakes.... not really 'welcoming' but not hostile either.

In reply to John2:

Thanks ! I remember now. He was a complete psycho. 

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

I'm not one to logbook shame mate, but how much time have you actually spent there? Not much unless you don't log your routes.

I'm based half an hour away, and yes, there is a huge amount of friction and misunderstanding between locals and climbers, some of it justified and a lot of it unjustified. Our access to those crags is not a given right, and as such if we want to continue to make use of the island we must play fiddle, especially re corona. Some climbers were cautioned by the police a few weeks ago and the locals, although over-reacting, were calling for blood. It doesn't help that they'd driven a substantial distance, but all the same, those tensions need to be respected. 

In reply to TomAlford:

I dunno, 20+ days a year I'd say. I never remember to log my routes. Seems I've logged 3 routes, which were when I was teaching some people one weekend. 

I wasn't saying there's no issues. Everyone talks about issues, so there must be. Just that I've never had so much as a comment from a local. 

In reply to AJM:

Worth noting that the car parks are blocked off with boulders currently, according to the facebook page for Dorset climbers. They provided picture evidence. Might not be the best place to go until those car parks are opened up. 

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

In normal times, patronise the local businesses, and park considerately e.g. don't park on the residential streets to avoid coughing up for the Pay and Display.

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

Who is responsible for the moving of the blocks when time comes to allow people back in? I would imagine if they aren't moved there will be a lot of cars parked all over the place (not everyone will know about the barriers) which will just wind the locals up even more....

In reply to PhilMW:

The local council. I've emailed them asking what their plan is for the car parks. No clue if they're even working and checking emails though. They're big boulders, and given how slow councils are to do anything at the best of times, even if they want to move them it seems unlikely they'll be moved by Wednesday. 

Basically guaranteed to cause issues and friction given the new advice from Boris. 

Most people travelling to climb aren't going to be keeping up to date with the status of car parks in Portland. That's not really a normal thing to do. Even if you go on Portland councils website, there's no news post or anything saying they even did it.

https://portlandtowncouncil.gov.uk/services/car-parks

You'd think this page would be a good place for them to warn people! 
Those that get there will just park anywhere if the car parks aren't open, and you can hardly blame them if they've come from far away. 

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

Its a damned if you do , damned if you don't situation. All these places, and not just Portland, are screaming for tourism to come back because the local economy is decimated, but just not yet....

I'd hate to be on Portland on Wednesday. Parking will be hectic.

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

You are totally right. I think a lot of climbers would have listened to Bojo last night and heard what I heard, we can travel and we can do unlimited exercise. Next weekend Portland will see a great influx of climbers with nowhere to park and it will be carnage, even if the council is trying to protect the local community it will anger them more by having the carpark closed. We shall see! 

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Maybe some locals seeing the writing on the wall will move the boulders themselves. There's no shortage of pickups on the island from what I've seen! 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

We've decided to go to Swanage (Winspit) on Wednesday. The locals in Worth Matravers look a lot more middle class, and a lot less scary, than some of the Portland ones

In reply to I like climbing:

I'm not sure he was, actually. He seems to have been more of a sad case, become a recluse, went downhill (which could happen to any of us). Apparently he was being bullied by his neighbour and finally snapped. Thus the shotgun episode. In my view, he needed help and didn't get it. It ended terribly. I don't want to get into this any more, only to say, as Steve has, above, that he really wasn't a bad guy. Although I once had a monster run-in with him, we parted on relatively amicable terms. And I've always been immensely grateful that we did.

Some years ago, I had a run-in on here with a certain local who most definitely was a bad guy - and a psycho. He threatened people out walking, with his shotgun when he felt like it. He ran a local pub, then well frequented by climbers. Yes, mine host was... a total nutter! The pub's no longer open and its erstwhile landlord got some pretty hefty doses of karma. I think he's back on the island but keeping his head down. So no need to worry about him.

Best to be nice to people though and treat their habitats with respect, wherever you roam. Most people, most places (yes, even Portland!) are OK, if you treat them right.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Funny that. If you're talking about the Mermaid, I always got on really well with him!

In reply to Oceanrower:

Yes, well, you would - charming sociopaths... then suddenly they flick a switch.

When the hygiene inspector closed his kitchen down, saying it was the muckiest he'd ever seen (hope you liked the food!), mine host's response was as idiotic as it was violent.

At one point, he had a plan to charge admission for The Cuttings!  Anyway, he's out of the picture now, thank heavens.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Lmao, who would pay to use The Cuttings?! He didn't think that plan through. 

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

Thinking plans through really wasn't his forte! (The food inspector?)

Once, after seemingly a key member of staff had departed at the same time as the takings, he stuck up a piece of scratty cardboard on a chair outside, with scrawled on it, 'Landlady wanted. Must be good with money.' As you might imagine, this caused quite some amusement.

Mick

In reply to Paul Sagar:

If portland had some sort of tourist trade, it would be a lot easier to contribute to the local economy. For example there are no campsites on the portland except for a few pitches at the YHA. The pubs and eateries are largely unfriendly until you get to Chesil beach.

In reply to GripsterMoustache:

If he'd paid me to climb at The Cutting instead...I'd still go to Blacknor. Or put my head in the toilet.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Thanks, Mick. Wise words......

I've just opened a new thread to raise a little awareness around the situation in the community on Portland, and the shared views of residents and local climbers in light of discussions over the past few weeks.

I know we all want to get back to it, but please help us gain and maintain a positive narrative of climbers being respectful and responsible on Portland.
 

In reply to scope:

There's a bunkhouse down at Vicky square (as you come onto the island), run by two local climbers. I would think that's almost certainly worth supporting. It's conveniently opposite to The Cove, on Chesil Beach, which is a nice, friendly pub. (Can get crowded but never feels stressed.)

I've got fond memories of early trips to Portland, in the '90s, drinking and watching the sun go down over Chesil Beach, after successful redpoints. Sadly, the succesful redpoints seem to be a thing of the past. But hey, I can still drink and watch the sun go down...

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

I’m a big fan of The Cove...well, I like the beer and food. The seats could be comfier though!

In reply to Paul Sagar and everyone:

Absolutely fascinating thread about a place I have never been and almost certainly never will be. I learnt a lot - it's as if I'd read a novel about the 'island'. Thanks all.