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Crag sanitation musings

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Musing about crag sanitation/toileting. 

Due to climate the phenomena is more obvious abroad than at home where there is less rain to wash the evidence away. 

Crag toilets tend to be focused in certain areas obviously, sheltered from view, away from crag. 

What is best practice here, all grouped together in one spot, the crag midden or in random patches across the hillside. My instinct says option 2 as the dilution factor is greater, if a little embarrassing.

Please let's live in the real world here. Keep the judgemental, idealistic go at home comments to yourself. 

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 Sean_J 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

All in one place is surely better in terms of keeping the crag tidy and having respect for the environment. Leave the turd minefield scheme to the rest of Europe!

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 Cobra_Head 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Why not just go before you set off?

I've never once needed to crap at any crag. I'm presuming you can piss anywhere.

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 Tom V 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

People's bowel movements anf their frequency vary a lot. Three a day might be normal for some and three a week for others.

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 coldfell 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

I think these are a good idea https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Accessories/Medical-Cosmetic/Clean-Waste-Go-Anywhere-Toilet-Kit-WAG-Bag-MET-WAG  (seen on another thread) for frequented crags. In more remote areas,  I think option 2, find your own discreet place and preferably use a trowel or pack out paper. Sea cliffs lend themselves to going below the tide line!

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 duchessofmalfi 22 Jul 2020
In reply to coldfell:

I've encountered more crag turds than usual this year.  I think it's people unfamiliar with the outdoors going outdoors and the restrictions on toilets and it's (clearly) not been climbers.  I suspect that as the pubs, restaurants, shops and climbing walls reopen this problem will go back to more normal levels as people stop spending so much time outdoors.

If, in case you don't know, the best thing to do (usually) is to bury your turds away from where people go, away from water sources and pack out the toilet paper.  If you're going to go somewhere sensitive then pack out the lot (because burying isn't always the best idea in these circumstances) so be prepared to do this before you go.

Definitely don't take a dump at the top of Tody's wall and then stick all your shitty tissues onto the rocks around you like some revolting attempt to brighten the place up.

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 robert-hutton 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> Why not just go before you set off?

> I've never once needed to crap at any crag. I'm presuming you can piss anywhere.

Glad someone else goes before, but looking at the dislikes, loads of folk are full of sh**.

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 Ciro 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

I'm the UK, outside of frozen winter ground it's rare that you can't dig a hole for your waste.

Spread out, stay well clear of running water, if it's grassy cut a sod of turf out, dig hole, do your thing, burn the used paper in the hole (or pack it out), fill the hole in and replace the turf. If it's a forest floor just spread the leaves and twigs out again over your hole. Either way, it should take a conscious effort to know someone has gone for a dump there.

There's really no excuse for leaving a visible mess at most UK crags.

When it is impossible to dig a hole, such as in a rocky mountain environment, use a rock to spread it out on a hard surface exposed to the wind so it'll dry out and be scattered into the environment in a couple of days.

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In reply to Presley Whippet:

Treat it like dog poo.

Take a shit. Put a bag on your hand. Pick up the shit. Invert the bag. Tie bag up. Bag it out with you.

Do not hang it in a tree for the shit fairies to collect.

Preferably use biodegradable poo bags for the disposed bag; a secondary bag can be a sturdier, washable, reusable bag.

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 Martin Bennett 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Sorry Presley - I tried, honest, I tried, not to nit pick. I hoped someone would come along and do it for me, thus saving me from all the dislikes I'm gonna get for being a prissy pedant, but no-one came to my salvation so it falls to me to correct your plural to the singular: 'phenomenon'.

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 Cobra_Head 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> People's bowel movements anf their frequency vary a lot. Three a day might be normal for some and three a week for others.


Then just nip your arse till you get home, or shit in a bag and take it home with you.

My OP was tongue in cheek as the OP said not to mention "go at home comments", hence the smiley face.

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 Tom V 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

 In a discussion about turds and arseholes I'd be a bit wary of being "tongue in cheek".

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In reply to captain paranoia:

> Take a shit. Put a bag on your hand. Pick up the shit.

Whilst your instructions are admirable, the couple of times (over several decades) when I've been caught short would not have allowed me to follow this, especially the "Pick up the shit" bit 💩💩

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 Cobra_Head 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

> Whilst your instructions are admirable, the couple of times (over several decades) when I've been caught short would not have allowed me to follow this, especially the "Pick up the shit" bit 💩💩


Carry a straw

I would probably give you dispensation in those circumstances anyway.

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In reply to Michael Hood:

> when I've been caught short would not have allowed me to follow this, especially the "Pick up the shit" bit

You think dogs always produce nice, firm dog eggs...?

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 Donotello 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

We’re not all punters on a 2 hour climbing session. 
 

I climb and / or clean new routes almost every day of the week and I average 6-10 hours. Guaranteed one shit during that sometimes up to 6. I have easily shat outside more than in. 
 

If I’m somewhere popular then I’ll usually try and walk some ways away from the crag. Into a forest or whatever. My method of disposal is a rock pile. So don’t fiddle with any rock piles in the woods near any crags in the south west is my advice. 

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In reply to captain paranoia:

I've no experience of dog ownership but I can see what you mean. However when you're a (responsible) dog owner I presume you are prepared for these events.

As a "go before you go" person these occurrences are so rare that one is generally unprepared for this kind of eventuality. Luckily, on those occasions I was at least able to get to somewhere discreet and well off any travelled trail so that natural decomposition would have been able to take its undisturbed course.

Not so sure about the decomposition of my fave Black Sheep beer towel though 🤢 - I hope it was natural fibres.

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In reply to Michael Hood:

The original question was about 'honeypot' locations, such as climbing crags. Not random places along the trail.

I'm not a dog owner, either, but I have seen dogs shitting, and owners cleaning up the mess.

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In reply to Donotello:

> Guaranteed one shit during that sometimes up to 6.

Six shits in ten hours? See a doctor...

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 Cobra_Head 22 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> We’re not all punters on a 2 hour climbing session. 

What's punters got to do with it?

You can't go 6-10 hours without a shit!! You may have too much inside you, if you need to get rid so often.

You could always lug a wheelie bin around with you and maybe empty it half way through the day.

I work 12 hour shifts sometime more than that, I shite in the morning before leaving for work and that's it.

Unless your suggesting climbing hard and not being a "punter" makes you shit more than normal people, I don't get your point.

If you're shitting that much, maybe it's even more important you take it home with you.

Post edited at 23:53
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In reply to captain paranoia:

Is Stanage enough of a honeypot location?

I suppose I should have said path rather than trail, gave the wrong impression.

Post edited at 07:00
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 Mike505 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

Due to a bowel condition i have to go 6+ times a day, so I'm decaring myself an expert at crag craps. Maybe i should release a guide book 'room with a view: where to poo in the peak'?

Post edited at 08:12
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 Mike505 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

I created many a 'shrine' but have since realised the error of my ways, please consider picking up a trowel and burying instead. A cheap gardening trowel will do the trick as folding ones are rubbish, the titanium 'dig dig' is brillaint if a little expensive.

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 Donotello 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Mike505:

Might have to start doing this yes. 
 

And it seems people think they are holier than though for getting through a day shift without crapping. I must go about 6 times a day, does that mean I need to see a doctor? I had a girlfriend who used to go twice a week. 

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 Donotello 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> What's punters got to do with it?

Because to someone who goes every few hours (I’m doing one right now) this suggests your outdoor climbing endeavours are very short. 
 

And congrats on being able to hold it in for your 12 hour shift I’ll put your name forward for next years honours list.

Post edited at 08:27
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 Mike505 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

I couldn't answer that mate, seems quite a lot though so why not?

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 Lankyman 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> And it seems people think they are holier than though for getting through a day shift without crapping. I must go about 6 times a day, does that mean I need to see a doctor?

Have you ever climbed here Shitlington ?

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 Lankyman 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> Because to someone who goes every few hours (I’m doing one right now) this suggests your outdoor climbing endeavours are very short. 

> And congrats on being able to hold it in for your 12 hour shift I’ll put your name forward for next years honours list.


Congratulations on typing so well whilst 'on the job'. That must surely be worth honouring!

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 bpmclimb 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> Why not just go before you set off?

> I've never once needed to crap at any crag. I'm presuming you can piss anywhere.

Never? That's remarkable. Perhaps you never spend very long at the crag? Or you have an unusual ability to halt peristalsis for the day - that internal conveyer belt which for most normal humans is involuntary. 

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 dunnyg 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

If you genuinely go 6 times a day, go see a Dr asap.

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In reply to Presley Whippet:

Anyone with a social conscience would ensure they don't sh1t in the outdoors unless in extremis or on more than a one-day trip, in which case it should be deeply buried in a dry place and well covered away from camp sites, paths, sitting places.

The Lakes is rammed and mobbed with people and dogs, too many. There is too much sh1t everywhere. Instead of creating a medieval horror show, has to be stopped at source, just keep it at home.

DC

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 Cobra_Head 23 Jul 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

> Never? That's remarkable. Perhaps you never spend very long at the crag? Or you have an unusual ability to halt peristalsis for the day - that internal conveyer belt which for most normal humans is involuntary. 


If I'm out climbing it usually all day and I work all day too, so it's not just a crag thing.

Out of our "gang", about 16,  there's only one person there only 1 person I know of who needs to poo outside, he seems to like it. Apart from a trip to Lundy during a Norovirus outbreak when one of our party had to shit on the Devils slide, quite an apt place to dump really.

so I don't think I'm very peculiar, at least in the pooing leagues, once a day, every day after breakfast, and if that can't happen for some reason, it'll be when I get home, there are exceptions but not many.

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 Cobra_Head 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> Because to someone who goes every few hours (I’m doing one right now) this suggests your outdoor climbing endeavours are very short. 

You seem to be adding two and poo together there and making four

If you're going every few hours, you'll need a new arsehole every couple of years.

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 MisterPiggy 23 Jul 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

Well said.

I pick up after the dog and myself.

Poop kit: inside a small plastic bag, some TP, a folded newspaper page. If/when needed, wrap offering, tissues, tie up inside bag, take it home.

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 Lankyman 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> Apart from a trip to Lundy during a Norovirus outbreak when one of our party had to shit on the Devils slide, quite an apt place to dump really.

As Sean Connery might say: 'that must have been quite a shite'.

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 Cobra_Head 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Lankyman:

> As Sean Connery might say: 'that must have been quite a shite'.


ha ha .

Poor lass was very embarrassed and had to give warning to everyone to look away, while she "unloaded".

Luckily she was near the bottom but belaying someone, she even went down and got water to try and wash it way after though.

Post edited at 16:02
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 bpmclimb 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> If I'm out climbing it usually all day and I work all day too, so it's not just a crag thing.

Well it must be a something thing. Assuming the forty or so posts on this thread are more or less representative ... everyone is making suggestions for solutions to a problem which clearly exists for them, or at least which they are aware is a regular occurrence - and doesn't seem unusual. You're the odd one out.

> Out of our "gang", about 16,  there's only one person there only 1 person I know of who needs to poo outside, he seems to like it.  

> so I don't think I'm very peculiar, at least in the pooing leagues

Well we're all different. It certainly seems unusual to me. Are your "gang" are all confirmed meat-eaters, who tend to avoid fruit nuts grains vegetables, and consequently eat very little roughage? Just guessing here - casting around for reasons why a bloke and 16 of his mates could all exhibit so little bowel action, or such an uncanny degree of control ....  

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 Tom V 23 Jul 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

I find that drinking real ale (or not) makes a definite difference.

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In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I really was trying to avoid that sort of comment as stated in my op. 

Many folk (self included) suffer from ibds and don't have the luxury of saving it for home.

Ibds are regarded as a disability under the equalities act. That shitter below the crag may not be a dirty b4st4rd but a paraclimber. 

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 Donotello 23 Jul 2020

Just thought I’d provide an update, had 4 today, only 9pm though maybe one more to come. Didn’t go climbing though having a day off so the countryside is safe for now. 
 

Suppose I went to the doctor and told him I go up to 6 times a day and some gentleman/woman off UKC and his/her gang of 16 cohorts can hold theirs in all day long I wonder what he’s gonna prescribe me. 

Post edited at 20:46
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 robert-hutton 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> Just thought I’d provide an update, had 4 today, only 9pm though maybe one more to come. Didn’t go climbing though having a day off so the countryside is safe for now. 

> Suppose I went to the doctor and told him I go up to 6 times a day and some gentleman/woman off UKC and his/her gang of 16 cohorts can hold theirs in all day long I wonder what he’s gonna prescribe me. 

A key to wind-up some thing else.

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 Lankyman 23 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> Suppose I went to the doctor and told him I go up to 6 times a day and some gentleman/woman off UKC and his/her gang of 16 cohorts can hold theirs in all day long I wonder what he’s gonna prescribe me. 

A bung?

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 Cobra_Head 23 Jul 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

> Well it must be a something thing. Assuming the forty or so posts on this thread are more or less representative ... everyone is making suggestions for solutions to a problem which clearly exists for them, or at least which they are aware is a regular occurrence - and doesn't seem unusual. You're the odd one out.

It would seem so, or maybe others haven't bothered commenting, who knows. I always have a dog shit bag and bog roll, be prepared and all that, just never needed it.

> Well we're all different. It certainly seems unusual to me. Are your "gang" are all confirmed meat-eaters, who tend to avoid fruit nuts grains vegetables, and consequently eat very little roughage? Just guessing here - casting around for reasons why a bloke and 16 of his mates could all exhibit so little bowel action, or such an uncanny degree of control ....  

There's a mix of meat eater vegetarians and vegans, if that makes a difference. Roughage doesn't make you lose control of your bowls though or makes you shit more often, does it?

How many shits a day is "normal", in your book, which isn't a good place to go, by the way.

Post edited at 23:41
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In reply to Presley Whippet:

> That shitter below the crag may not be a dirty b4st4rd but a paraclimber

Having a shit doesn't make them a dirty bastard.

Not cleaning the shit up afterwards makes them a dirty bastard.

In places that will attract a high population density and duration, bag it out.

In random places on a trail, bag it out, or bury/spread it out, some distance from the trail.

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 timjones 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Just carry a wag bag, they weigh nothing and if you're lucky you will rarely need to use one.

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In reply to Presley Whippet:

>  Ibds are regarded as a disability under the equalities act. That shitter below the crag may not be a dirty b4st4rd but a paraclimber. 

I take everyone as equal.
Equally, every individual has the responsibility to sh1t at home, not in public space.
DC

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 duchessofmalfi 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

Your doctor is going to take a history, take some bloods and a stool sample and, if it is long standing problem or represents a serious change, order a colonoscopy.

Then depending on the results and diagnosis arrange treatment if necessary.

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 Tom V 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

, every individual has the responsibility to sh1t at home.

 In such a perfect world there would be no need for public toilets. 

And the same people who are forced into using public toilets sometimes find themselves in a place where there are none.

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 Iamgregp 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

Instead of making a miniaturised temple of poo out of a pile of rocks why wouldn’t you just use one of those rocks to dog a little hole and bury it?

Thats what I do... I also take my used bog roll away with me in ziploc bag. Unless people start digging holes there’s no sign I’ve done my business there.

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 Iamgregp 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Tom V:

“Every individual has the responsibility to sh1t at home?”

Did you make this up yourself or what mate?  New one to me...

I have a really irritable bowel on a bad day I can need to go 7 or 8 times a day. What would you suggest? I don’t leave the house to satisfy your little made up rule?


 

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In reply to Iamgregp:

> Unless people start digging holes there’s no sign I’ve done my business there.

What, like digging a little hole in which to have a shit...?

It's the same old "oh, it won't matter if I have a shit in a hole; it's only me doing it". All those "only mes" add up. In a popular area, we'd end up wandering on a shifting shit quagmire.

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 Iamgregp 24 Jul 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

It's a big world out there, I tend to take a good 10 to 15 minute walk away from the crag and go not near a path or underneath a tree, behind a rock, or anything obvious like that...

Chances of somebody choosing that exact same 6 inch square spot and digging a hole, within a time period when my shit still shit and hasn't biodegraded are pretty slim. 

Chances of it turning into a shifting quagmire of shit even slimmer. 

Also I leave absolutely nothing else at the crag except footprints.  My partner and I have a habit of picking up other people's litter at the crag so we'll both end up with a bag of fag ends, fruit peelings and packets by the end of the day.   

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 Tom V 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

i was replying to that point myself but somehow cocked it up.

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 Iamgregp 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Tom V:

I thought that after I’d replied!  My apologies for cocking that up...

’Tis a silly point isn’t it?  

Going to the toilet is one of the most natural things we do. It’s far more useful for people to be informed and prepared to do it responsibly than to just say nobody should poo outside their own home.

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 brianjcooper 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Like the Queen. I just take a pill.

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 Cobra_Head 24 Jul 2020
In reply to brianjcooper:

> Like the Queen. I just take a pill.


Where to you put it?

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 Cobra_Head 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

> Also I leave absolutely nothing else at the crag except footprints.  My partner and I have a habit of picking up other people's litter at the crag so we'll both end up with a bag of fag ends, fruit peelings and packets by the end of the day.   

I do the same, so why not do it for your shit?

Take two bags a dog shit bag and a zip lock, I don't see why this is so hard. Obvious if you're have six shits a day, while you're out you'll need more bags, but I'm presuming your a bit more "normal"

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In reply to Presley Whippet:

Just by the by....

I didn't need a sh1t on El Cap. 5 days.

In fact 6, maybe 7. Took a day or two after to get going again. 

Took a poo jar up with us; remained empty.

Did take 30mg codeine each morning though....

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 Iamgregp 24 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

Because a plastic bag can take thousands of years to biodegrade whereas my shit will be gone in weeks.

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 Tom V 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Just Another Dave:

I don't think deliberately induced constipation would be recommended by many people in the medical profession.

 Up until I had a major operation a couple of years ago I thought constipation was a trivial matter fit for Les Dawson jokes.

Bút then I discovered that if you've been used to going twice a day all your life and then get bunged up for five days it is seriously scary. The relief of shoving a glycerin  capsule up your arse in those circumstances is difficult to imagine if you haven't been in that situation.

Post edited at 00:38
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 Cobra_Head 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

> Because a plastic bag can take thousands of years to biodegrade whereas my shit will be gone in weeks.


Well wash it out and re-use it!

Or get a biodegradable dog shit bag, it's not hard to solve your "thousands of years" problem, is it?

Post edited at 01:00
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 Donotello 25 Jul 2020

Mental that this is a forum full of grown ups and everyone thinks that the way they shit is the right way lol.

Its just your food that went in going back out again, some of you are acting like not going for a crap all day is akin to repressing a peadophillic urge and anyone who can’t do it as well as you needs looking at.

Post edited at 00:59
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 Cobra_Head 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> Its just your food that went in going back out again, some of you are acting like not going for a crap all day is akin to repressing a peadophillic urge and anyone who can’t do it as well as you needs looking at.

And some people are suggesting that not shitting every couple of hours is tantamount to having some deadly disease.

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 Donotello 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

I don’t think anyone is at all I think their holier than thou approach to sharing that information is what’s making them unpopular.

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 Lankyman 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

Look up 'scatological humour' on Wikipedia.

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In reply to Donotello:

Ha, yes. Like it.

Also, do you stand up to wipe, or wipe sitting down?

This divides families.

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 Cobra_Head 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Just Another Dave:

> Ha, yes. Like it.

> Also, do you stand up to wipe, or wipe sitting down?

I've switched from on to the other, though if I was to shit outside, I don't think I'd be sitting down to wipe!!

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 Cobra_Head 25 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> I don’t think anyone is at all I think their holier than thou .........


Which would have been fine apart from this line "We’re not all punters on a 2 hour climbing session. "

But this threads becoming a bit shit anyhow.

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 Fishmate 26 Jul 2020
In reply to Donotello:

> I wonder what he’s gonna prescribe me. 

A few tests for starters, which you are clearly in need of. I have never in 52 years heard of anyone requiring to poo that often every day. Get a check upmate, I mean that in the friendliest of ways.

Your arse must be in tatters ;o))))))))))

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