UKH

This is a long post from Coniston MRT, but worth reading I think. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3781567268551201&set=pcb.3781575878...

An excellent post and one that everybody considering returning to the hills should read (but some people won't) i'm south lakes based, can see the fells from my daily walk, cant wait to get back at it but i'm leaving it for now until we know here we are in another month

PS, you link is broken, article is here:

https://www.facebook.com/ConistonMountainRescueTeam/posts/3781575878550340

I think this will link to their main post rather than the photo:

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3781575878550340&id=176432572...

Sarah, Paul and Eric really are silly sausages. I think the MRT should break their policy of not naming and shaming.

LOL, a dislike on every post, care to tell us why this is mystery disliker ?

It's definitely Sarah, Paul or Eric!

I seem to have a "dislike stalker".  I have to say I'm tempted to do it myself just to wind people up and generate enough support to get the dislike button removed. I haven't done so to date

Al

Just seen this post on facebook and discussed it with my girlfriend who's a doctor and has been working on a ward dealing with Covid-19. 

The main problem with it seems to be the idea that the team would have to self isolate if the initial casualty had a positive test come back. they wouldn't otherwise every doctor who ever came into contact with a Covid casualty would have to self isolate and very quickly there'd be no doctors in any hospital anywhere which clearly hasn't happened. You would currently only be asked to self isolate if you were either symptomatic or had a positive test (you'd only get one of these if you were symptomatic but that's another discussion).  Also of course the ambulance staff wouldn't self isolate how do they think there is a single ambulance left in the country.

There's probably some very good reasons not to go mob the lake district but I do wish that MRTs would not spread misinformation there's enough of that flying round as it is.  

If they came from a pucker mountaineering club, word would spread like wild fire... We don't have a Mug of the Year trophy for nothing

Re the Coniston MRT scenario... Scary.  Just a couple of call-outs over a nice weekend would put all the Lakes MRTs out of action for a couple of weeks.  Can you imagine the headlines when a Daily Mail reader gets left for dead?

I know most call-outs are walkers but I'm damn sure i don't want to fall off and have a call-out initiated on my behalf.  Needless.

My old caving club used to have one of these as well. It was a dinosaur hand set on a plaster plinth. It used to belong to the dinosaur that stood outside White Scar Cave many years ago.

Not sure on that one, i thought the self isolation "rules" were for the wider public, also Doctors and medical staff get tested ? Not sure the MRT will...

really? I'm not sure that's the case.

The self isolation rules don't say that you should self isolate if you have had contact only if someone in your household. Also if you think NHS staff are guaranteed tests you're living in a fantasy world. 

I read the post which had been copied to our mountaineering club site.

Looking at this another way, the request is to resist the urge to travel to the Lake District, so I guess it’s ok if a local from Keswick or Ambleside goes into the hills for exercise. If the message was don’t go into the hills because we’re concerned we’ll have to rescue you it should say that. Instead it specifically says don’t travel to the Lake District to exercise. 

This just reinforces my general feeling that most mountain areas of the U.K. would rather we sent cheques and didn’t bother them by visiting.

here's an expected reply somewhere from UKC "F*ck MRT, what do they know? Anyhow, I'm going to be climbing easy stuff so how could I have an accident"

But that's what the government are telling us, are you saying only SOME of the stuff they say is valid?

I didn't say any of what the government has said is valid.

I think the 'contact tracing app' involves all contacts having to isolate for 14 days. Something we may all have to get used to. (better than lockdown) 

Erm, i didn't say guaranteed did i ? I said they get tested, they have access to tests, that's not fantasy is it...

Reminds me if a tale told by cavers down the far end if Daren Cilau.  They came across a prosthetic hand reaching out of the mud floor.  Holding a dinky toy car!

I think they only get tested if showing symptoms, not for exposure. There were calls for weekly tests but I'm not sure that has been implemented.

Certainly in the US we do not test medics unless they are showing symptoms.

Only if they’re symptomatic and not even then sometimes. 

Sorry just posting in reply to your post, if that's not your thoughts then take my "you" as the royal "you"

Much better, one might think a government on it's toes, might have this in place now, before lifting restrictions, so we have some baseline data.

Yep, care homes would have no staff either if contact with a confirmed case triggered isolation. I have been looking after people with it for weeks. One occasionally spits food back at you as soon as you put it in his mouth! Fun and games! 

We do get tested fairly easily, but it's not routine testing. If you have an unusual headache, sore throat, new cough etc then you get sent for testing. I recon most of us have been tested at least once by now.

This is presumably going to change as we start contact tracing and testing in a joined up way; for this to work, traced contacts of positive people need to self isolate until they can receive a test result; although the self isolation should only require 2-4 days to allow a test to be taken and processed?

https://www.facebook.com/edalemountainrescue/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARB... 

"Mountain Rescue England and Wales

Mountain Rescue advises caution as lockdown eases in England:

Mountain Rescue teams in both England and Wales are anticipating an increase in callouts as lockdown regulations are eased, firstly, in England with the changes announced on Sunday, and later in Wales if the situation changes.

“We’d like to thank everyone who has stayed at home and kept themselves and MR volunteers safe in recent weeks,” said Mike France, SEO (Senior Executive Officer) of MREW, “but we know that this is going to change as lockdown is reduced. On call outs, our volunteers will still need to take precautions with every casualty, assuming them to be positive with COVID-19. They need to do this to stay safe and well themselves and to ensure that teams are available when needed through the summer.”

“Any surge in visitors and call outs is going to put a huge additional pressure on mountain rescue volunteers, in addition to the extra work of using PPE and stringent cleaning of kit and vehicles. It is essential that everyone heading for the hills takes responsibility for their own safety, and should be aware that mountain rescue response times will be longer because of the additional preparations needed.”

In recent years, mountain rescuers have played an important role in spreading the #BeAdventureSmart messages. These focus on planning ahead for forecast weather conditions, wearing and carrying the right clothing and equipment and having the skills and expertise for a planned route. These will be even more important this summer and with an additional factor.

“No matter how much exercise people have been taking at home, in their gardens or local to home during lockdown, most of them may not be as hill fit as they were three months ago,” said Mike. “Anyone planning a day out in the hills needs to break themselves in gradually, not do too much and plan a route that is well within their current capabilities.”

“Basically, in England there is a change from stay at home to stay alert and people can travel to undertake exercise, whilst in Wales the regulations have not changed and although you can exercise more than once a day it is only from your home. This difference is really important to understand.”

Be Adventure Smart during the COVID-19 outbreak:
https://www.adventuresmart.uk/ 

would the fact that no Mountain Rescue team in U.K. has insurance provision for Covid influence your chain of thought?

Team members would receive no pay out if they could not work after becoming infected.

Their families would receive no financial support if they died from infection.

And what chain of thought is that exactly? I was merely questioning the accuracy of the statements which is important I’m not about to rush off to the lakes this weekend either.

But call me cynical do you think that if you had an insurance policy covering covid-19 you’d actually get them to pay out? They’d just claim you could have got it anywhere and ask you to prove it came from a rescue. 

Hi Joem and thanks for your reply.I hope you are well and coping as best you can in these uncertain times.

I was referring to your chain of thought that I interpreted from your suggestion that MRT are spreading misinformation.Maybe they just see the same information as you but see it through a slightly different prism that’s all.

The present situation has made what was already a difficult job almost impossible.Teams are trying their hardest to find a way through it and in some cases asking for help from the climbing community  

I am in no way insinuating that you are having a go at MRT. Maybe all just try and see it from their point of view.

Sun is shining here today and hope it is where you are too👋

I’d fully support Mountain Rescue in going as far as to say that their services are unavailable if they feel that the risks are too high but some of this particular post is factually inaccurate and some of it feels like it’s scaremongering. There’s a bonkers amount of misinformation on Facebook at the moment without official organisations joining in. 
 

If concerns about insurance etc are the problem for them then say that, I suspect for many that’s not what’s driving it but I don’t know as I’m not involved. 
 

It drives me up the wall that people expect a rescue when they get themselves into trouble obviously it’s nice to have as things do go wrong but if people were competent and made their best endeavours to self rescue the teams would have a much quieter life.

Totally agree re the conflicting advice/info out there.Everyone seems to have their own take for sure.

cant speak for anyone else except myself re reasons for Rescue team concerns but here are mine.

1.Insurance -deffo one for sake of my wife and kids.

2.Infection - huge factor for me due to wife and kids and a vulnerable Father who we are looking after.There is always an element of risk to MRT due to nature of work but we don’t bring broken legs home but we may bring Covid.We also may expose casualties to Covid.We have had two members as confirmed cases so far who are now both recovering.Neither infected on a Rescue.

3. Incident management- even a short stretcher carry in full PPE will be a nightmare, especially to those a little older (me) Also reduces protocols for treatment may mean what was a survivable injury at any other time may become life threatening.Thats a hard one to wrestle with after seeing those same interventions previously save people.

4.’Nobody forces volunteer MRT to attend callouts.’ Totally true but it’s hard to say no.You have a genuine concern for somebody who is injured out there who has requested help.On top of that I’m now thinking if I don’t go things just got even harder for my teammates.

5. Planning to not have an accident- I can weirdly see some logic to this.Risk assessment under normal circumstances surely reduces chance of accidents.So does being ‘ultra’ aware reduce risk even more?Maybe yes maybe no who knows.

Reducing grades, ’lower ‘risk climbs and going to ‘familiar settings’ , amongst other suggestions I’ve seen, can only help I’m sure.
We do though participate in an activity where we can do everything ‘right’ but shit still happens and weird shit does happen.

 Only advice I could offer is to maybe think about access to your location in the event something happens.Proximity to a road/track where a vehicle can access is key to making a rescue much simpler.

Im not going to address whether people should go or not as it’s none of my business how you choose to interpret things.Unless of course something goes wrong then it does become my business.In that event i would like to think that we would work together and find a way of mitigating as much risk as possible.

So many different points of view out there but hopefully somewhere in the middle lies the path forward.👊

I’ve enjoyed our chat so far, I haven’t spoken to anyone else apart from my family in f*cking ages👋

Thanks for your response Mike, you make some good points and are very measured. I personally think that the leap from stay home to go where you like is far to much to quick. Even if it's "safe" it's too much to deal with for lots of people I'm going to be having a very graduated return to play that will at most involve some countryside walks localish possibly followed by some top roping at a carefully  selected crag (with appropriate edge protection) not all at once and the brakes might be put on all of this before I get anywhere at all. I don't want to upset anyone or put people at significantly more risk.

I actually think we're if not on the same page very close to each other.  

I hope you get to safely interact with some of your friends sooner rather than later tricky as this is. 

Why would you want any actual verifiable data when Boris is basing the current decision on science? 

Data has no basis or place in the scientific world. 

Check the new protocols that have been agreed for MREW and other first responders. 

Yes, a mrt could well be self isolating if the casualty was c19+

And any resus will be very limited compared to previous. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/search-and-rescue-framework-uksa...

Should you have ended this with a smiley?

I ask because I've just seen a post on FB, shared by my mates wife, who isn't thick by any measure. Yet sees nothing wrong with this.

The post is trying to persuade people that Boris is doing a great job, because if you look at population densities of different  countries, France and Italy in particular, where more densely populated, so should expect more deaths!

I think the point is that if some of the team get infected then they'll have to self isolate - meaning less people to attend a call out.

Not sure how that relates to misinformation.

My assumption was based on the fact that ambulance and hospital staff do not have to self isolate after contact with a Covid Patient apparently Mountain Rescue have different advice the logic of which is not something I'd want to get into. 

But there is still other bits that are wrong. Of course ambulance staff won't be self Isolating after contact otherwise the service would have collapsed weeks ago.

Just reread the MREW quidelines and Our team guidelines - there's nothing that says we have to self isolate unless we present with symptoms.  So, you are correct.

What I'd like to see is regular testing for anyone working or volunteering in Health care and emergency response otherwise how can we ever hope to get a handle on this. 

Best of luck to the Mountain rescue teams especially this weekend hopefully everyone is sensible enough to avoid any call outs.