How many of the climbs that you’ve done have since fallen down or have been substantially changed by rockfall?
I’m interested in whether my experience is representative.
In my 18 years of climbing, 3 climbs have gone or changed completely:
Shadrach (VS 4c), Tremadog
Tatra (pre 2014 rockfall) (VS 5a), Boulder Ruckle
Formula One (HVS 5a) Lundy
Yankee Doodle, Conscientious Objector, Fandango, Wicked Gravity . Probably others too.
Two of the lads in my club did Controlled Burning (E4 5c) on Lundy. Sadly no more. I still remember Martin asking everyone in the Barn for all their medium/large friends. No refusals were accepted .
And i remember backing off the The Perfumed Garden (E1 5b), shortly before it collapsed. Well pleased with that judgement!
Good article on this here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/lost_rock-11025 which is already out of date with the demise of parts of Castle Rock of Triermain
Plenty of threads about this if you search too, but no harm repeating.
The Butcher, Dovestones Main
And I think Rachel has disappeared from Lundy, near to Pelmets of Delerium.
Formula One also.
So far, that’s
Dolerite 2
Granite 4
Rhyolite 2
Limestone 3
Sandstone 1
I was a bit surprised about the granite number but I suppose it’s less about softness of the rock, and more about things like rock breaks and how extreme the local environment is e.g tidal sea cliffs.
I have a feeling The Butcher survived the chop.
Titans Groove and a few routes around that went in the last big rockfall, the one before took out a lot of Mikes Meander and surrounding routes.
Dovestone Main (in Chew) is grit
I'm very smug to have done Deer Bield before it fell down but my absolute favourite ex route is the Illinois Enema Bandit. There's no bit of scrappy crag where the route used to be just air. Perfectly gone. Bloody great route it was too.
Sorry I meant Titans, which might have had more than one collapse, I suspect.
Christ at Hangingstone. It was ridiculously loose when I did it and did not last long after. Interestingly, people still seem to be climbing what is left of it.
Rimmon route on the troll wall... collapsed spectacularly in 1998.
Well the Cengalo is granite as well, as are the Drus... Don-t think ther is an easy rule regarding geology.
Hounds Head Buttress, Tremadog
In the alps, significant bits of La Grivola, Herbetet ,Ciarforon (ice, here). Also a small bit of Monte Dizgrazia, however, since I was holding it at the time, this is the most important for me!
All of Parrock Quarry. TBH it's not much of a loss
Everything on the Culm Coast, everytime anyone climbs on it.
Big chunks of Fairy Cave Quarry always seem to be arriving on the floor.
Also Earth Rim Roamer 1
I was going to say, shale would top the list. Hundreds of seaward facing fins: every cracklines eventually becomes an arete, then disappears altogether!
Everyone one in a while, a whole sheaf gets undermines and the crag loses its top layer as in the case of Mainsail.
True North on the Lizard was a great route as well. You'd never have guessed that it was soon to be no more.
Great pity to hear about Mainsail. Probably as well I wasn't my current weight when I did it.
Terrier's Tooth used to be given HVD. Has anyone mentioned Bishop's Rib on the same crag?
Solaris (Lundy)
Did "Mourning Glory - VS" in October 2003 using the 1992 guide.
Then out came the 2004 guide which said it was "dismantled in the late 90's".
Exciting route I found - interesting choice Vince !!
The Giant (Summer) (E3 6a) andCougar (E3 5c) along with a lot of those already mentioned.
just Overhanging Bastion I think
Add Carpet Slab, Cloggy
Cougar and Parallel B.
Both granite, but granite that wasn't held together by very much at all.
I'm slightly surprised that nothing much has collapsed at Ratho. I've always had the impression that Sedge Warbler and Shear Fear were never very firmly attached to the rest of the world.
Of course but in a climbing context they're usually treated separatly.
> I'm slightly surprised that nothing much has collapsed at Ratho.
A few routes on the right side collapsed s few weeks ago!
> Everyone one in a while, a whole sheaf gets undermines and the crag loses its top layer as in the case of Mainsail.
I thought the loss of Mainsail seemed somehow unfair, as of all the routes on Culm it seemed one of the most normal - pretty solid, nice slab climbing. Its similarly lost neighbour, Berlin, though - that was a different matter, with its weirdly apt guidebook description as "exhilaratingly loose".
> A few routes on the right side collapsed s few weeks ago!
Funny that. It always seemed the more solid side to me.
A few years ago, whilst walking out from another failed attempt (my 5th for various reasons) on one of the absolute alpine classics, I remarked casually to my partner, 'Never mind it will still be there next year!' A couple of years later it, the Bonnatti Pillar, was gone completely. I have several routes which I would like to finish, in the alps. I suggest if you have a list of classic alpine routes get out and do them before I make any more destructive statements!
The Drus are one big collapsing route.
Some of mine are:
Terrier's Tooth (pre-2014) (HS 4a)
Tatra (pre 2014 rockfall) (VS 5a)
Probably a few more as well!
Berlin at Brownspear Point was a great adrenaline trip at an amenable technical grade.
Caravanserai as well? I remember bringing my second up by bracing myself in a sort of ditch I found a few yards back from the top .
It has been reclimbed but is definitely 'substantially changed'.
Yes - there's a relevant recent thread here: a search'll find it.
I have done 20 routes that I think are mostly gone:
SW: Yankee Doodle, Buffalo Gorge, Caravanserai
Pembroke: Return of the Natives, Idle Threats, Conscientious Objector, Lookout Arete, Lost Leaders, Face Value, Nimrod
Snowdonia: Fandango, Shadrach, The Brothers, Alice Springs
Peak: Sickle Buttress Arete
Malham: Cube Route
Lakes: Deer Bield Buttress, Stiff Little Fingers, Sideshow, North Crag Eliminate
now probably plus some more in Vivien Quarry. There are 4 that still exist but substantially changed:
Zodiac, Haemogoblin, One Step in the Clouds, Overhanging Bastion.
Most regular SW sea cliff climbers will have more (e.g. Ian Peters easily beat my total on a previous occasion when this was raised)
Or at least it will be when the block falls down... It's currently out of bounds as the block which may support the overhang above is migrating away from the cliff.
Cornflake at Tintwistle Knarr. Surprised no-one’s mentioned that. Classic!
Dang, this thread makes me realise that I'm old enough that my lifetime encompasses geological events, Shadrach springs to mind as a route that has tumbled to the crag floor. However my couple of ticks at Lamb quarry suffered the unusual fate of the crag floor tumbling up to the tops of the routes. Do they count?
Another one for the list........
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rocktalk/big_groove_gogarth_rockfall-7061...
Interesting thread on this subject from 10 years ago. Al Evans makes an interesting contribution.
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rocktalk/classic_routes_that_no_longer_ex...
Yep especially American Direct (ED1 6c+) and Bonatti Pillar (TD)
Ooh , I forgot about that. One more on the list!
Amazing picture of the Raven Crag Walthwaite rockfall by Rog Wilko linked to in that thread - looks like the boulder that fell jumped over a wall.
jcm
> It has been reclimbed but is definitely 'substantially changed'.
Google found this update: https://www.frcc.co.uk/routes/overhanging-bastion-revised/
> Interesting thread on this subject from 10 years ago. Al Evans makes an interesting contribution
Thanks for that.
I like Al’s straightforwardness in observing that if JJ fell down it should make for some good new routes!
Done quite a few of those mentioned does fools paradise on Gowder count?
Oxwich on gower which had about 40 routes (inc. a number of top quality starred classics on it) completely feel down to evolve into a really good beachside bouldering area
Ooh - Mainsail and Berlin. Did them both. Took me 3 attempts to do Berlin on account of the weather. I think the second attempt on it I got lifted off the crux by the wind and placed back down (in the same place!)
Steve
Various things on the Brothers wall at Tremadog, apparently. Plus the original first pitch of Merlin.
Some sport routes in Parrock Quarry.
Is Wendy Doll (E2 5b) in Vivian still in existence?
Then there was my FA on the lower tier at Markfield that fell into the water before I even got round to writing it up anywhere.
Of course there are the Sandstone Cliffs at Hastings. They look magnificent, but they are the closest thing to suicide you can climb on. No ascent is ever the same as bits break off all the time ranging from hand/footholds to hundreds of tonnes of face.
Such a pity, because if the rock was stable they would easily be the best cliffs in the SE.
A fair bit of park nab fell over a few years ago
The late, great, Marsden Pinnacle
This one fell down, or changed substantially, at least, which was disappointing as I once backed off it and wanted to return.
Two of which I was on the FA of! One feel down about two months after we climbed it! The other took a few years.
Terrier's Tooth was a dangerous sandbag at HVD but a great route. What's left is now a very dangerous and shitty sandbag at HS.
Foggy Dew fell down, I thought the 'New' is the existing line.
New Foggy Dew also fell down, the current line is Brand New Foggy Dew!
This is probably the last ascent of the old version.
Cheers ... another update to my scripts needed.
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