UKH

I recently listened to a brilliant podcast on healing chronic pain. I think everyone, especially medical practitioners, would benefit from it. And if chronic pain inhibits your climbing and training, it could be hugely helpful (which is why I posted it in the Rocktalk forum). The link is 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2OMfNl0nJFyvdvzxxa86ye?si=222ee6c40a8e47e2

Here is the episode summary:

Headaches, migraine, back, neck or joint pain, irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), fibromyalgia - they're just some of the common causes of chronic pain, which is estimated to affect between a third to half of all UK adults. If you are or someone close to you is one of them, you don't need me to tell you it it can be physically and emotionally draining. You problably feel like you have tried everyting - so this podcast has the potential to be life-changing for you.

Emerging neuroscience tells us our brains actually create what we experience in our bodies, through a process called predictive processing. Pain doesn't come from them body part where it's felt, it's created by our brain, signalling that something needs attention. Our emotions and stress activate the same pain centres in our brain as an injury. If you've ever had a broken heart and experienced chest pain, that's what's happening.

The same thing occurs with chronic pain. In the vast majority of cases, there is no structural problem - such as injury, infection or a tumour - although of course these must be ruled out. Instead, your brain has created a neural pathway that remembers the pain and keeps you trapped in a vicious cycle. You feel the pain, that causes you stress, and the stress makes the pain real. 

And that is the absolute key here: it's not "all in your head" - your pain is real. And there is something you can do about it. The key is changing your narrative on pain. You can easily access the proven therapies to do this.

There was a programme on R4 about chronic regional pain syndrome a couple of weeks ago.  Certainly an interesting topic.

Thanks, I'll try and have a listen tomorrow when I have a bit of time.

My wife has been suffering from chronic pain, diagnosed as complex regional pain syndrome, since early 2017 in her foot. They basically think it started off as a stress fracture in her toe, and although that has long since healed the nerve endings never really stopped firing. At its worst she wasn't able to walk more than around 100m, but for the last few years it's been mostly not more than a dull ache. However it has stopped her from running which has been a big mental blow for her.

She's tried a lot of therapies including TENS machines to try and reset the nerves, Chilli cream to burn the nerve endings off and hope they regrow normally, and a few things involving mirrors to try and trick the brain into thinking that the healthy right foot is actually the painful left foot, but nothing has really worked, at least not for long. It'll be interesting to see if they have anything different in this.

Do you remember the name of the program? I've had a quick Google and can't find anything from a few weeks ago.

Sorry to hear about your wife. Sounds bloody awful.

This is the episode, which may give you both the comfort there’s potentially light at the end of the tunnel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001f4sm?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=sha...

Wishing you both the very best of luck!

Thanks a lot, I'll give that a listen too.

She's able to live with it now to the point that she doesn't really notice it most of the time, although it did flare up again recently. 

This web-page has all the relevant links, including

https://drchatterjee.com/how-to-heal-chronic-pain-with-dr-howard-schubiner/

It involves a step by step process of unlearning pain. e..g.

https://www.thismighthurtfilm.com/unlearningpain

Thank you very much for this, my partner suffers from chronic pain and hopefully there is something useful for her here.

Thank you for sharing this podcast!

Seems really interesting. 

I have been struggling with chronic pain after an injury, 6 years ago. 

No structural damages but still I am in pain. Been told numerous time it is in my head and there is nothing wrong with me. 

Currently stuck in the loop : pain - less climbing- loss of confidence - fear of hurting myself when exercising - stress/fear when climbing - climbing way below my ability outdoors

Been told numerous time it is in my head and there is nothing wrong with me.

Doctors who say this are not fit to practise.

Years ago on these boards we had Simon Overton, who wrote a book about his experiences of just this. 

Charcot's Bad Idea

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charcots-Bad-Idea-Simon-Overton/dp/1409265420

Thoroughly recommended.

You are welcome. Being told there is nothing wrong with you and that it is all in your head is cruel not caring, and ignorant/wrong (shows a failure to understand primary (brain-generated) pain as opposed to structural pain) 

Try their quiz to esplore the relevance of the approach to you https://www.thismighthurtfilm.com/quiz

See their steps re unlearning pain:
https://www.thismighthurtfilm.com/unlearningpain

Please report back on how you get on!

Hi and many thanks for posting this. My wife has suffered constant chronic pain for well over a decade. Your post has led me to read up a bit more today and I'm hoping some of this might be of real help to her. 

There’s a good, albeit now quite old, TED talk on the brain’s role in the experience of pain:  youtube.com/watch?v=gwd-wLdIHjs&

There's a really good episode of the Science Vs podcast on this too. After years of grim episodes of back pain, listening to this podcast was pretty much a cure for me. It was quite astonishing. For me, the best analogy was to phantom limb pain in aputees. The pain sure as hell is there, but it's coming from the brain rather than a site of injury.

I'll give this one a listen. 

Thanks Eric. Listening to it with my wife right now. I checked first whether Howard Schubiner is a quack or not, and he appears to be a proper doctor. Here’s his CV if anyone is interested: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52813cfbe4b00150d038dcf8/t/606e15b1d...

Other than a bit of “branding” around the psychological therapy they are selling (which sounds like it’s essentially a pain specific CBT protocol), what they are saying doesn’t seem much different to what NICE guidelines advise and to what NHS chronic pain services would/should offer.

Certainly looks like legit advice, but I think they might be overstating how unique or revolutionary it is.

Edit: I should say that I haven’t listened to the podcast, but I’ve had a read through their website and skim read some of their research papers which is what I’m basing the above opinion on.