Avalanche/Redwall Longland Continuation

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 fammer 02 Aug 2019

Avalanche/Red Wall/Longlands (S 4b)

Planning on climbing this tomorrow; possibly foolhardy given the forecast. We have a copy of the rockfax, but a bit of snooping around suggests this isn't particularly useful, and the North Wales Rock book is the one to use. If anybody wouldn't mind sending me a picture of the relevant page I'd be hugely grateful.

Ta

 OwenM 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

Just follow the line of least resistance.

8
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

I did it years ago on a damp February day - I thought it about E3 under those conditions,

Chris

 Wally 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

Just 'go and have a look'

- use your route finding skills to follow the easiest line. Having said that, I do remeber a move requiring jamming in a wet crack being a good 5c above suspect gear. Though I'm sure if I had opened my eyes there was probably a 4a variation 5m to the left or right....oh well ...you learn these things on big mountain routes like this.

Enjoy.

4
 tehmarks 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

> We have a copy of the rockfax...this isn't particularly useful

You want to think yourself lucky that you're not in Chamonix...

Post edited at 13:14
 Cheese Monkey 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

The line is fairly obvious when you’re on it and the guide is fairly accurate. It’s a mountain route

 philluu 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

This OUMC MiniGuide might be of use to you:

https://sites.google.com/site/sjbroadbent/mountainguide

 Mark Collins 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

I did it via the Rockfax book a few years back and didn't really have any issues. I did 1 belay more than was necessary about half way up.

 wilkesley 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

Something like a Friend 2 is useful for the traverse that leads to the ledge below Longlands. There is an awkward step right, which is the crux. Just about the only pro is a slot where you make the step. The first time I did this route was pre friends and I spent ages fiddling a small hex into the slot, which promptly fell out when I climbed past if.

 spartacus 02 Aug 2019
In reply to wilkesley:

I remember that slot, it’s about 1 and a half inches high and 2 and half inches long. Flared at the back, perfect cam placement and the only one I used on the whole route.

I do remember pitch 2 (traverse from heather terrace) is further than you think. Nearly ran out whole 50 meter rope. 

 Myfyr Tomos 02 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

Get a copy of  the Menlove Edwards/Wilf Noyce 1939 CC guide to Lliwedd. Then if it happens to be pi**ing down (unlikely, it's August) you can enjoy the wonderful descriptive text to prepare yourself for the next time.  

 Alkis 02 Aug 2019
In reply to Wally:

Oh boy that's familiar... Going up that loose gully in trainers, smearing on mud, hoping nothing would break on me considering I was significantly further from the gear than the ledge was. One of those situations where brain is turned off, since the only way out is up, and turned back on afterwards to reflect on WTF you just did and how did it look like the right way to go at the start.

Retrospectively, had I been in climbing shoes I probably would have slid off several times due to lack of tread! 😂

Post edited at 22:59
 mike123 03 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer: probably too late but if not , try to get Steve Ashton's 100 classic climbs in north wales , I think there is a good topo and description in there . I just had a quick look for it but can't find it otherwise I would have sent you a pic . 

 Trangia 03 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

Good luck! It's a real "mountaineering" route, great fun but utterly confusing when you are on it. The route finding is probably amongst the most difficult I have encountered on a British crag. More like a rambling Alpine route. I think the secret is not to get too specific about following the "correct" route, there seems to be no "correct" route, just loads of options most of which lead to dead ends. The plan is to get to the top and enjoy it. As someone said further up the thread just follow the line of least resistance, but you won't always guess right and will probably have to down climb or traverse from time to time when you meet a "dead" end. 

Edit: I've just looked at the photos and can't believe how much it seems to have changed since I first climbed it in 1963. Then it was quite dirty with a lot of vegetation growing in the cracks. I led it in big boots then, very little protection, just an occasional rock spike and quite slippery due to mud, The clean rock now shown in the photos is very different.

Post edited at 09:37
OP fammer 04 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

Thanks for help all, we managed fine with the guidebook we had, only getting lot once when i missed the final crux pitch and climbed up a loose unprotected slab about 15m to the left (I think). Other than that steady going, although I did accidentally launch my sandwhich off the belay of the 5th pitch.

 C Witter 05 Aug 2019
In reply to fammer:

I had great fun on this route recently with three good friends.

The chaos of Pen-y-Pass, was the first trial. Not just the parking, nor simply the cost of it, but also some bored and lonely would-be hiker accosting us with interminable questions about the relative difficulties of Crib Goch. Finally escaping the pilgrimage swarms, we arrived late, having taken a scenic route to the crag. Stood at the bottom of the route, after a treacherous traverse scramble in, there were damp patches everywhere and we were only reasonably sure we were stood in the right place. Another team were a pitch above us...

We set off, noting the loose rock everywhere. I caught up with the team above us on the second pitch. I'd crossed one rib and started up an obvious groove/slab. "Don't come up this way," they bellowed down, "it's a dead end!" I down-climbed a few metres and spotted a traverse around a second rib - a good pitch, though the only gear was slings on spikes, with every second spike being loose. Eventually I saw an obvious spike belay and, studying the guide with my partner, surmised I was somewhere around pitch 2.5. She headed up to a ledge where the team above seemed to have camped for the night. The leader of that team, directly above me, exclaimed loudly about a rather large and pointy loose block he'd discovered and was now happily levering back and forth. "Don't throw that large pointy block at me, if you so please", I offered up politely. 

Stuck behind this team, we waited an hour for them then climbed a nice patch of steep quartz, the only sound bit of rock on the entire route, with little gear, round some ribs. Above this, the rock finally accorded with the guide: "follow the vegetated groove," we read, looking up at some steep grass that gave way, eventually, to a further pitch of steep grass.

And lo, we'd reached the Red Wall and once again caught up with the team above.

With swirling masses of damp clag closing in around us, and the team above showing no signs of life beyond the occasional gesture toward the barest idea of movement, we decided to head up Terminal Arete. Little did we know, the adventure was just beginning. Now in trainers and serious rain, buffeted by the wind, the quartz groove guarding the start of this "scramble" became a death slide. Terrified into submission, we dropped our coils and wished only for salvation, pitching our way up the drenched rock, gripped out of our minds, yet elated, singing and shouting into the wind, close to madness, lost in the intimacy of our perverse enjoyment of the utter misery of it all.

The final challenge was finding a pub still serving after 9pm. This was certainly the closest call of the day, and the most nearly fatal.

A cracking day.

Post edited at 01:00
 alan moore 05 Aug 2019
In reply to C Witter:

Sounds like a Lliwedd day! I finished up Terminal Arête one dry winter day after failing to find the horns on Horned Crag and also had to aid some of it.

Also sounds familiar that the biggest obstacle to Classic Rock ticking is other Classic Rock tickers.

I did Avalanche/Red Wall on a clear, dry sunny day when the route was easy to follow and nowhere harder than VDiff. It made up for all previous visits spent slobbering about in the wet.

 Greenbanks 05 Aug 2019
In reply to alan moore:

I'd agree about the weather. The nature of the holds & sparsity of protection make Lliwedd a poor place for those without grades in hand when it rains (even though Noyce/Edwards regarded it as having 'nopatch of more than two or three square yards...to which the climber should not reasonably expect access").  Its also easy to underestimate the size of the undertaking - these routes go on forever. Compare this to (for example) Tryfan E Face - that seems very benign & escapable for most of its standard routes. I've climbed on Lliwedd on 3 occasions. Avalanche/Red Wall was OK as the weather was good and (for me) I was climbing ok. But I've done others there which have been, as you elegantly suggest, slobberfests.

I took the time to have a quick look at the old Noyce/Edwards guide - even that itself takes a bit of reading, a good indication of the cliff's complexity and unique character: "...the cliff lies exposed in its whole acreage to the plough" (p.17)

 Blue Straggler 05 Aug 2019
In reply to C Witter:

Some of this sounds similar to my first attempt. Well, the bit about a slower party ahead, loudly exclaiming about every bit of huge loose rock they found and levering it or booting it with no thought about us below. 

Me and partner made a good early enough start and were planning to pitch it all. Group of three turn up just as we're about to set off and ask to go in front as they are going to "move together" as practice for the Alps. So we let them go. And lo, one of the three seems very much out of his depth already, and they are SLOW for two pitches, and then they end up pitching it without thinking to let us, a party of two, through. 

then we notice the guidebook says " don't worry too much about the exact line" so I set up off a parallel line to this slow party who take massive umbrage and claim that we would only have to wait 5 minutes for them to finish (more like 30 minutes with bonus idiot rockfall), unfortunately my line is about as stable as Fairycave Quarry, and my partner is increasingly unhappy with the day, so we end up bailing. 

Second attempt with different partner some years later, I end up on totally the wrong bit of Lliwedd and I have no idea what we were climbing but three of the pitches felt HVS to us. it was somewhere to the right of the correct line.  

I haven't been back  

 wilkesley 05 Aug 2019
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I think I have done the route three times. Apart from having a problem working out where Longland's was the first time, I don't remember route finding a big problem. However, it's possible I climbed the wrong route Looking at the face from a distance it's possible to identify the starting ledge by a thin vein of quartz running parallel below it.

Central Chimney has a good first pitch with some "Interesting" scrambling to reach the Great Terrace.

Post edited at 16:53

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