UKH

 Any words of wisdom from Lightroom users on using the noise reduction options in LR? I have a Canon 60D so a bit old in the tooth and it’s not a full frame so presumably compared to more recent tools there’s noise in my images. I’ve twiddled about with the sliders but no idea what I’m doing. Does noise reduction have a role in anyone’s workflow?

Off the top of my head when you fiddle with sharpening it tends to increase noise, using noise reduction helps smooths it all out again and will also reduce any other noise too.

I don't use noise reduction if there's little noise and I'll accept a little noise rather than make the image over soft by going overboard with noise reduction.

If you sharpen first hold down alt as you move the sliders and it turns the image grey and you can see the sharpening effect better. Once you've sharpened hold alt again and use the masking tool which will stop areas you don't want sharpened from being sharpened and reduce added noise, eg the sky. Sharpening shows white, masked areas show black. That's a good way of finding the hard to spot dust bunnies that you usually only see once you've printed a large version for the wall.

Once I've sharped I reduce noise very carefully looking at 100%.

I have used Noise Ninja in the past with good results (DH2 a much noisier camera than yours) – more recently with newer cameras I have not updated. This worked well in Photoshop, but not sure if there is Lightroom version.

In reply to

A pretty good time saving way to do this is to get noise reduction done on import. You can set it up so a different amount is done for each ISO setting. 

Then pretty much forget about it. Noise doesn't show up in normal prints, and won't online unless you crop really heavily. 

I would only tend to use enough colour noise reduction to stop 'speckling' and then only really use luminance noise reduction to mitigate really bad noise. Do your adjustments at 50% and not 100% too!

Don't overdo it.

Sharpening shows white, masked areas show black. That's a good way of finding the hard to spot dust bunnies that you usually only see once you've printed a large version for the wall.

Also, there is a "spot removal" tool for this, and when you select the tool, there is a box along the bottom of the image that says something like "show spots" and when clicked it makes the whole image black and details (as well as spots) show up white. 

Based on some experience with Canon 350D and 5DMK2 I found it useful to minimise the noise in the source file before it gets to Lightroom. Saving images as raw files will give you more room to manouevre in LR.

Using an iso as low as you dare go is handy - as long as there's light enough to do so.

Then when you take the picture, try "exposing to the right" (lots on Google on this) where you "over" expose the image without blowing the highlights. Check the histogram on the camera to get an indication of how far you can go without losing the bright bits completely.

You'll get less noise by turning down bright bits in LR rather than turning up dark areas, especially on images from older cameras. Shadow areas on my 5D could be shocking sometimes.  Newer models won't win so much doing it this way.

Then follow the good advice offered above for any residual noise.

This might give you some pointers.

https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/technique/camera_skills/lightroom-tip...

It's all about compromise.

And as pointed out by others, do all you can to avoid higher ISO on older cameras, and expose for the right to get as much light as you can into the camera from the shadow areas, without blowing your highlights ... but balancing shutter speed to avoid camera shake and aperture to get DoF where you want it ... more compromises.

Then sort out exposure in LR.  Exposed-to-the-right RAW images can look washed out before exposure is balanced.

Thanks, I'll take a look. I think most of the other things I have covered: I try and shoot 100-200 ISO and usually +1/3 exposure. I was interested in the comment above from Dan Arkle about incorporating some noise reduction as part of the import process - is there a certain level of noise that's inherent to the sensor/ISO setting so is there in every picture, irregardless of subject (ie independant of tonal range etc)? I thought this would be a picture-by-picture exercise. Perhaps all will be clearer when I've read the article...

That's interesting - I thought all pixel level edits were supposed to be done at 100%; can you explain a bit more the choice of 50%?

Thanks, that's a trick I hadn't heard of before and I've never used the masks in LR, will give them a try. I'm still on standalone Lightroom 4.x - will these techniques work in that version do you know?

All that is doing is applying a specified custom 'default' preset (you've previously set up) for a given ISO.

https://petapixel.com/2017/05/10/tip-set-custom-develop-defaults-lightroom-...

I tried it a good while back, but it wasn't much advantage for me as I use an (evolving) user preset (which includes settings for sharpening and noise) for each camera that is applied via the import dialog. I couldn't be bothered to update separate ISO versions every-time I tweaked my baseline import preset approach.

I would find it easier to set up separate ISO presets (that just change noise setting): then apply the one I want to an image during LR editing.

And is you are already shooting mainly 100-200 ISO, then the approach of ISO specific defaults isn't any help and a User Preset (applied via the import dialog) is the way to go.

Do the edits at 100%, and then view (and think about) the results at both 100% & 50%.

The idea is that as a final image viewer, you never would see an image at 100%, so you want to get a feel of how the changes might look for the final image viewer (screen and print) and as a 100% pixel-peeper.

I don't know if that tool is in LR4, I use LRCC. Look immediately under the sharpening tools, it should be there if you've got it.

The noise reduction in Nik is better than LR - it is still possible to find the free version if you google 'nik collection free' but it's not supported any longer.

Isn't the best general principle to reduce the noise before sharpening as sharpening only makes noise worse and harder to perform noise reduction on?

LR performs all of that in the right order when it actually outputs a file/print.  Before that, its just rendering a preview.

When your doing the editing in the develop Detail module, its a back and forth process between Noise-Sharpening to get it right, as the two interact. 

To me, they are elements of the same step

But for the most of the time with a current gen camera (up to ISO 800 (possibly to even to 1000's)), Noise Reduction is set at default min values (which are not all 0 in LR).  (I'm not that bothered by a bit of grain)

The logic being that some noise is actually useful to introduce a level of 'tooth' in the image, texture that engages as edges. Removing noise at 100% can make things looks plasticy. 

In fact I know many pro photographers that add some luminance noise to their images as they print nicer (avoiding smooth areas like skies, mist and long exposure water)

The other theory about 50% (or at 100% on retina screens) is that this is closest to maximum printing size. If you're printing smaller you can get away with less noise reduction.

p.s. I love using Imagenomic Noiseware for noise reduction as you can target noise in highlights vs shadows, target coarse or fine noise by size etc. The result often looks more organic than some noise reduction software. I particularly like that it you can use it in a way just to reduce noise and not attempt to get rid of it (which does make things plasticy)
 

I am not that bothered by some noise, unless it's a very old camera or I mess up somehow. I tend to use very conservative settings, perhaps upping it just a bit for portraits. Hate that plasticky look when you overdo it  

One slider to note -  Colour Smoothness. Setting it too high can lead to mushy colour details, especially in fine foliage and lettering and clothing. Obviously, everybody's workflow and photos are somewhat different, so try experimenting yourself, and don't be afraid of a little noise