UKH

At some point I will probably move up to Nikon full frame from my Nikon D7200
Just a speculative enquiry to anyone who might have used the two in the outdoor mountain environment , not really about pixels but the practicals and extras
Any thoughts?

In reply to jethro kiernan:

I've had a quick look at the D850 in the Wex showroom in Norwich, and I would be tempted,but I have gone another way. So I am waiting for delivery of the new Sony Alpha 7 R III, which is smaller and lighter than most DSLRs.(It is one of those mirror-less cameras)
This is quite a change for me as I have had Nikons for years, starting out with an FE2. If there had been as small a Nikon DSLR as that FE2, I would have bought it.
Another consideration are the micro 4/3rds cameras such as the Olympus systems.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

I suspect they will 'feel' quite similar in the hand (I have D800), but the speed of focus in low light seems to be the biggest ongoing improvement in these SLRs and the D850 is likely to be a lot better as well as not having a very annoying pop-up flash. They are all quite heavy once you have a decent lens on the front. I also have a D500 (not full frame) and I tend to use this outside more and more, leaving the D800 for work inside. The D500 is lighter and more responsive than the 5 year old camera and just feels a bit more solid.

The D800 only has about 15000 actuations a year so I will have to wait a lot longer before I can legitimately get a new full frame (without inducing mariticide), but I really notice the speed of focusing compared to the newer camera in poorer light.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

Have you considered a D750? New ones can be had for around £1600 which is getting on for £2K less than the D850. I made the jump to full frame this year with the D750 and it's blown me away, unless I was a pro or making billboards I'm not sure I would need much more.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

As I'm sure you realise, you will need full-frame lenses, which usually weigh considerably more than the APSC ones. It's not just a matter of upgrading the body, you also need to make sure you have suitable lenses.

In reply to John2:
That is the main reason to be honest, I have some fx lenses but my wlkaround lens is a sigma DX lens that I would like to replace, I don't really want to spend more on DX lenses so moving up to FX seems like a better idea

In reply to jethro kiernan:

I think firstly you need to consider what you will be doing in the mountain environment and how are you going to use the images. If you want to shoot whilst climbing, or spending a long day tramping the hills, where the photography isn't the primary objective of your outings then weight/bulk has to be a consideration. I currently use a D800 and also a Fuji system (an X30 with fixed zoom, an Xpro-1 and an XE2). For climbing I invariably go with the compactness of the X30, and for fell walking and general use either of the other Fujis. I never use the D800 on the hill unless my primary objective is to capture images and the resolution that it offers is what I am looking for. That usually involves a tripod and several lenses as well. Too much weight and bulk to be carting around all day, especially if you are only going to view the images on a monitor or only printing to modest sizes.
I chose Nikon's full frame because I have been using them for nearly 40yrs and have some beautiful old glass which I still use. I cannot comment on the Sony system other than that some of the images I have seen are excellent and the cameras are much less bulky. Both systems have sophisticated image stabilisation, but they need to be. Full frame cameras are unforgiving to the critical eye, especially when printing images beyond say 16 x 20.... which surely has to be one of the reasons for choosing full frame.

In reply to jim robertson:

I already use the Nikon D7200 and had the Nikon D200 before that so I'm used to relatively bulky set ups, I have a Olympus OMD 5 for going fast and light.
I have used Nikon for the last 30 years and have a mixture of DX and FX lenses, however I believe Nikon are going to focus on their FX range as far as "pro" is concerned with the Nikon D500 probably being their last DX "pro" camera, I feel I missed a fork in the road when I got the D7200 (it was an insurance replacement and I was kind of put on the spot)
Having looked at prices I can get a good second hand D810 and replace 2x DX lenses for less money than a new D850 :-/
My only concern is the potential shutter shake with the D810 v the D850 which has an improved shutter
Focus stacking looks like a nice to have as well
Anything else I should consider?

In reply to jethro kiernan:

I would consider the quality of your existing FX lenses. The D800 resolves around 50% more than a D4 which is full frame also. Any deficiencies in the lens will be apparent when pixel peeping (I know you weren't interested in pixels etc), which you would have to do to spot any shutter vibration issues. That said, I frequently use manual Nikkors and print results beyond 16x20 and haven't found shutter shake a problem.

In reply to jim robertson:

I'm using a 50mm 1.4D
85mm 1.8D
180mm 2.8 D
all reasonably sharp lenses

I would be considering getting a nikon 24-120mm afs F4 (sigma art 24-105mm ? anyone)
and a nikon 16-35mm afs F4

In reply to jethro kiernan:

Nice glass for the D800. 24-120 f4 is an interesting choice as the 28-300 is cheaper and optically as good, built the same, little difference in size.

In reply to jim robertson:
Kenrockwell

I have an old school prejudice against do it all lenses with large zoom ranges, plus 28mm would be a bit frustrating and would involve to many lens changes around the wider end.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

I have the 24–70mm lens on the D800 . This is a fine combination.

I look at the prices of new Nikon kit now though and the exchange rate blamed recent hikes are quite eye-watering so you have to pick the things that are really going to last!

In reply to SouthernSteve:

my oldest nikon lens is 27 years old and been most of the way around the world

In reply to jethro kiernan:
I actually have the 28-300 which I tend to use when I don’t want to carry around my 2.8 short zooms or my old primes. Rockwell’s words resonated when you mentioned your choice as I remember reading up on the 28-300 before I bought it a year ago and he seemed to prefer it.

In reply to SouthernSteve:
I agree with you. The 24-70 along with it’s two siblings are great with the D800 and I’m sure would be fine with the 850.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

The thing with mirrorless cameras is that it takes both extra power and time to generate the image, instead of viewing it directly as with an SLR. I notice this in 'Live view' on my D300. however I accept that this will have speeded up by now but if shooting at a high frame rate as in action sports (skiing etc) there will be shutter lag. I would like to see some figures before I'm convinced to splash out that kind of money. Also shooting in cold weather, not unknown in winter mountaineering, that's putting even more drain on the battery. Just a thought...
Your use of a prime lens is a good idea it this really makes a difference to the quality of the final image as opposed to using zooms with up to 15 bits of glass causing all sorts of refraction problems. zooms only work if you need different focal lengths quickly as in wildlife photography and fast moving sports.

In reply to Sean Kelly:
I've always found that even with a (D)SLR, you need to anticipate when to press the shutter button if the action is moving quickly - the delay with a modern mirrorless camera is almost infinitesimally longer.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Battery life is a consideration, the OMD is very poor with regards battery life, the camera needs to be versatile enough for landscapes but able to take action shots, upto relatively fast MTB shots.
I love taking pictures with prime lenses, but also realise having one lens I can take out for the day is probably going to result in more quality pictures than a bag full of primes.

photography will fall into

Take all the gear and tripod for specific photo day out.
Big camera and zoom in anticipation of potential good shots but primary reason is being out in the hills.
Olympus OMD 5 for travelling light or climbing is the primary reason for being out and photography is opportune.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

FX and D810 it is.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

Magic. I had a go of a D810 when I was shopping for a FF system a few years ago and thought it was sublime. I went Canon mainly because of the lenses, but the D810 stuck in my head as a blindingly good camera. Anyway, I look forward to see some of the results.

In reply to Removed UserStuart en Écosse:

Oh and if you aren't aware of it already, have a look at Photography Life. Great site with many D810 users, including a certain John Sherman.

In reply to Removed UserStuart en Écosse:

Got that as a bookmark already any other recommendations ?