How often do you change lenses while on a route?

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 Kai 01 Nov 2022

I have a micro 4/3 kit with  a bunch of lenses.  Sometimes, I will bring 2 or 3 lenses with me on a climb.  However, I find that I seldom use anything other than a single wide-angle lens.  I'm generally too busy climbing or belaying to mess with switching lenses.  Particularly on anything that is either long or hard (for me) I find that messing about with different lenses becomes a very low priority.

I've pretty much given up on carrying a multi-lens kit at this point, and am typically just carrying a single lens or a fixed lens camera.  

Who out there has figured out a relatively easy way to carry and access multiple lenses while climbing?

 Robert Durran 01 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

I would only ever take a single zoom lens (probably just the one on my compact) unless I was a third in a party free from belaying duties to concentrate on photography.

 The Lemming 01 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

If I'm bouldering, or more accurately speaking, watching my mates boulder then I will take a few lenses provided I'm outside.

On a route?

Never. Could you imagine the pain it would cause to get chalk dust inside your camera or even a bit of dirt from the surrounding rock getting stuck inside the camera body?

And that's not to mention the thought of dropping a lens while way off the ground.

1
 MisterPiggy 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

I agree that the zoom lens is the best option. The zoom may not be as fast as a prime but that wouldn't matter on a route.

I too would fear dirt/dust/dropping, and personally I couldn't take photos and belay, it'd have to be one or the other.

The times I have a camera on a climb, it's with a single 35mm (FX equivalent) lens.

Let us know if you find a solution!

(Perhaps a running vest to store the lenses?)

Post edited at 00:30
 jethro kiernan 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

If I'm using M43 on a day out I  may have a 12-40 2.8  which would stay on for the day (or a Panasonic 15mm 1.7 which is an ace lens) I would also in a small neoprene pouch carry a 9-18mm wide angle, however changing lenses frequently mid route is not recommended. I'm used to changing lenses on photoshoots especially when using primes however you will be cleaning your sensor a lot and editing out dust spots and in this situation I'm not part of a climbing pair and even then juggling lenses is still a bit twitchy (I Use a Lowe pro sling shot in this situation).

A little photographic pre visualisation before setting off on a pitch can allow you to make lens choices in advance. Certainly getting good shots as part of a roped pair is very challenging, again on the mountains ridges and traverses will help with this so a bit of pre planning ie what's the background like (wide or tight) when is the traverse coming up etc.

The 9-18mm is super compact and fits in a very small neoprene pouch and will fit in a chest pocket or hang off a harness, but obviously depending on how thrutchy you get it will be vulnerable. Amazon was a place to get the neoprene pouches.

The Peak Design capture clip is good for the mountains up to easy scrambles, but not for climbing. 

I will be putting together an article on carrying photography equipment in the mountains/climbing at some point soon.

Post edited at 07:08
 ianstevens 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

Assuming we're talking about a multi-pitch trad route... I take my phone.

1
 Toerag 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

I used to keep the oly 17mm on my e-m5 on VFs which it's ideal for as you're normally close enough to your partners for 'environmental portraits' but have been mountain walking recently so have had the 12-40 on all the time for that.  It's too bulky for VFs.  I sometimes carry a 7.5mm fisheye for crazy summit selfies, but wouldn't normally change it en-route unless there's a really cool shot for it. I've given up carrying my cheap oly 40-150mm(?) zoom as it's slow and doesn't have the quality.

 colinakmc 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

Nowadays the factory zoom does virtually everything on my SLR but back in the time of analogue I had several lenses for my Olympus OM1 but the 28/f3.5 virtually lived on the camera.

Still miss it, even with the hassle and cost of using film. 

 Robert Durran 02 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> Assuming we're talking about a multi-pitch trad route... I take my phone.

I'm amazed at the places people use their phones for photos. Really a case of having all your eggs in one smashable and dropable basket. Or maybe they have them in some sort of case attached to them (though I'm not sure I've seen this).

 Rob Parsons 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I'm amazed at the places people use their phones for photos. Really a case of having all your eggs in one smashable and dropable basket.

Yes. And, as we know from the Wagatha Christie case, accidents involving dropped phones certainly do happen!

> Or maybe they have them in some sort of case attached to them (though I'm not sure I've seen this).

I would be interested to know if anybody has a good way of securely attaching a tether to a phone. The phones themselves make no provision for it.

 Marek 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> I would be interested to know if anybody has a good way of securely attaching a tether to a phone. The phones themselves make no provision for it.

Some do. My Ulefone X7 (used for bike satnav) has a hole for a tether.

 Rob Parsons 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Marek:

> Some do. My Ulefone X7 (used for bike satnav) has a hole for a tether.

Ah ha - thanks. That's a highly-sensible feature. Shame all phones don't have it.

 galpinos 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

I use a 15-45mm cheap zoom on an APSC (Fuji X-T1). Not the most robust, fast or weatherproof but small and good enough for me. Don't change lenses and just accept the limitations of the 23-70mm full frame equiv. range.

If you are keen to change lenses, I'm sure there was a Angela Percival youtube film of her doing an Arc'teryx shoot an how she carries lenses on her harness etc.

(Edit: lookin back at my favorite photos on my last multi pitch route, there were at 23mm FF equiv)

Post edited at 14:24
 ianstevens 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I'm amazed at the places people use their phones for photos. Really a case of having all your eggs in one smashable and dropable basket. Or maybe they have them in some sort of case attached to them (though I'm not sure I've seen this).

I manage to not drop it in real life, I can manage to not drop it whilst standing on a ledge. It's far less bulky than a proper camera. And for taking pictures of people either toproping (seconding) or of their butt, there's really no need for anything else.

 Robert Durran 02 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> I manage to not drop it in real life, I can manage to not drop it whilst standing on a ledge. It's far less bulky than a proper camera. And for taking pictures of people either toproping (seconding) or of their butt, there's really no need for anything else.

Can you use it one handed while belaying without worrying about dropping it?

I know people who use them kayaking. This does seem a bit mad!

 craig h 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

If on a route and taking my DSLR I just stick to my 24-70mm on a full frame Canon. More often than not I use a compact Canon G7 as it is small, takes great photos and also RAW images.

If I was to be taking climbing photos, but not actually climbing myself I'd probably have 3 lenses with me to cover all eventualities.

 TobyA 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

Do you keep your cameras on lanyards when climbing?

I've dropped my phone cycling and taking pics a couple of times, with no real damage. I've had my phone blown out of my hand once while taking a picture at the top of Sharp Edge on Blencathra, fortunately it landed in snow so was fine. I've always just used whatever moderately chunky looking case I can find on Amazon (usually around the 5 to 10 quid type of range) and tempered glass screen protectors. Before going to do Dream of the White Horses a few years ago I made two small holes in the bottom of the case and thread some thin tough nylon through it and tied a loop. I then clipped that to a lanyard of 3 mm nylon cord round my neck. I could belay, and shoot pics with the other hand and just dropped the phone if I needed the other hand without worrying about it. 

In the last 25 years I think I've only broken one phone by dropping it in outdoor use, and that was whilst road biking and finding that my cheapy Decathlon cycling jersey's pockets were smaller than every other cycling jersey's - and wouldn't hold a phone securely. I was doing about 55 kms down a hill and a slight bump ejected it! Over the last decade I've found I have phones for about 3 years before I become annoyed by them slowing down or batteries packing up. I don't think I've paid more than 200 quid for a phone, so think for something I use a lot every day, that's not bad value for money!

 Robert Durran 02 Nov 2022
In reply to TobyA:

> Do you keep your cameras on lanyards when climbing?

Yes. RX100 attached to one of those now unobtainable bombproof Camera Care cases clipped to my harness. I'm confident I could happily drop in from head height on to rocks ok. I've recently got a waterproof/shockproof TG6 for kayaking which is great. No case needed, just in a pocket on a lanyard and forget about it. It's good quality and I might be tempted to use it climbing, especially winter or damp - can just dangle it without worry for ease of access while belaying.

Post edited at 17:23
 65 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

I can recall one instance where I took a Nikon FM2 with two or three lenses up a route. It was Spartan Slab (with some questionable variations) and I was in the middle of a rope of three. I didn't change lenses, it was too much faff.

I can't recall having carried a SLR up routes but there are photos of me with a bulbous CCS case attached to my waist so I must have. I have very few photos though so I'm guessing I didn't get it out much.

I did carry an Olympus XA for a while (tiny and brilliant film camera) but my climbing partner dropped it down the Penon, smashing it to pieces. Lanyards are a good idea, as are cameras and lenses you can afford to damage or drop.

 TobyA 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

The last 'proper' camera I bought was tough/waterproof Lumix, 2nd hand through a reputable camera shop, but I was never very happy with the image quality, and then my son managed to drop it all of about 30 cms (fell out the top of a rucksack as he was taking something out of it) the screen cracked and water could get through. Kind of negated the whole idea! Since then I've just made do with a phone. Without spending ridiculous amounts on top of the range iPhones or similar with the best cameras, you're not going to get photos as good as from a decent camera, but they're ok and work well enough for my UKC reviews and articles. And partly as a result of that, I've never really been able to justify buying a moderately expensive standalone camera. I am currently thinking that when I replace my current phone I might specifically spend a bit more to get a Google Pixel phone because their cameras are meant to be great.

 Robert Durran 02 Nov 2022
In reply to TobyA:

There is no doubt that some phone cameras are remarkable. But I do think that even the best can tend to give a rather "shiny" overprocessed look especially in tricky light.

I wonder how compact and at what sort of price a top phone camera would be in isolation without all the other phone stuff. Would there be a point and shoot market for something like that?

 Marek 02 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> There is no doubt that some phone cameras are remarkable. But I do think that even the best can tend to give a rather "shiny" overprocessed look especially in tricky light.

The phone camera's effectiveness is largely down to software masking the limitation of small (noisy) sensors. Sensor are pretty much physics limited, but software can deliver what the developer thought the customer wanted.

> I wonder how compact and at what sort of price a top phone camera would be in isolation without all the other phone stuff. Would there be a point and shoot market for something like that?

Would probably be more expensive than the phone. The 'low' apparent price of phone technology is a combination of volume, bundling and market churn which a camera-only device would be hard pushed to replicate.

 ianstevens 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Can you use it one handed while belaying without worrying about dropping it?

10+ years of evidence would suggest so... but if I do use it whilst belaying, it's guide mode or grigri only. 

> I know people who use them kayaking. This does seem a bit mad!

I mean, my phone is mildly waterproof whereas my camera/lenses generally aren't...

Post edited at 09:33
 ianstevens 03 Nov 2022
In reply to TobyA:

> The last 'proper' camera I bought was tough/waterproof Lumix, 2nd hand through a reputable camera shop, but I was never very happy with the image quality, and then my son managed to drop it all of about 30 cms (fell out the top of a rucksack as he was taking something out of it) the screen cracked and water could get through. Kind of negated the whole idea! Since then I've just made do with a phone. Without spending ridiculous amounts on top of the range iPhones or similar with the best cameras, you're not going to get photos as good as from a decent camera, but they're ok and work well enough for my UKC reviews and articles. And partly as a result of that, I've never really been able to justify buying a moderately expensive standalone camera. I am currently thinking that when I replace my current phone I might specifically spend a bit more to get a Google Pixel phone because their cameras are meant to be great.

Even a top phone camera has absolutely nothing when compared to a decent* camera. Reasons discussed below by other posters.

If you want to buy a fancy phone for a good camera you really want an iPhone Pro or whatever the Samsung flagship is called. They have the best hardware, the google phone is mainly very good software dressing on top of a quite low quality sensor IIRC. 

*when I say decent I mean a mirrorless system or dSLR, not a compact or bridge camera which I agree, are no better than a top of the line phone and are entirely pointless in the current state of tech.

 Rob Parsons 03 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> *when I say decent I mean a mirrorless system or dSLR, not a compact or bridge camera which I agree, are no better than a top of the line phone and are entirely pointless in the current state of tech.

Pointless? Using a viewfinder is often much better than having to look at a screen in order to compose a shot.

 65 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Can you use it one handed while belaying without worrying about dropping it?

I have a Quadlock case for mounting a phone onto my bike. You can get a metal ring which fits in the mount and could be used to fit a lanyard. Not strong enough leave dangling while climbing but fine to keep clipped while you are using it to guard against losing it if dropped.

I agree with your and Ian Stevens' view of phone pics. I do take them but they're never anything more than snaps and for the most part they are in my view over-processed. They can be used to make striking images, but if you want a sense of realism not to mention some fine detail, a good compact like a Panasonic LX1002, Sony RX, Fuji X100/XE4 or best of all a Sony RX1R2, is the way to go.  I'd like a Fuji X70 but the prices have gone mad.

 timparkin 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I'm amazed at the places people use their phones for photos. Really a case of having all your eggs in one smashable and dropable basket. Or maybe they have them in some sort of case attached to them (though I'm not sure I've seen this).

Hi Robert, 

I have a Mous case which has a two small holes in the side to which you can girth hitch one of these

https://tethertools.com/product/quick-release-lanyard/

And then I have a long, ribbon like neck lanyard round my neck (not super strong, would break if caught in a fall). I then put the phone in a chest pocket. I've happily used by iPhone 12 one handed while waiting for my 2nd second to removing a stuck cam on Fracture Route. See photos below. 

 


 ianstevens 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

What compact camera have you seen that has a viewfinder since about 2002?

I agree a viewfinder is much better, which is why I have a use a system camera. Just not on multi-pitch trad routes.

 Rob Parsons 03 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> What compact camera have you seen that has a viewfinder since about 2002?

My Canon (purchased in 2010 or so) does.

I don't know the current state of play - but your claim of 2002 is certainly out.

Post edited at 10:38
 LucaC 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Kai:

If I'm climbing as a 3 then I often take a full frame Sony with a 16-35mm and that will do the vast majority of climbing photos really well. 

If I'm going somewhere to specifically take photos and perhaps climbing as two pairs, then I might take either a 24-70mm f2.8 or a 70-200mm depending on the effect I was after. Most of the time I'll just have the lens loose in the top pocket of my rucksack. Camera lives loose in my bag too, either on a peak design neck strap or a Blue Ice stretchy axe lanyard girth hitched to a peak design D-ring screwed into the tripod hole. 

 Marek 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> Pointless? Using a viewfinder is often much better than having to look at a screen in order to compose a shot.

And I find a touch screen far less convenient to use that a properly designed set of hard buttons, particularly when wearing gloves or when work 'blind'.

 ianstevens 03 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> My Canon (purchased in 2010 or so) does.

> I don't know the current state of play - but your claim of 2002 is certainly out.

I was spitballing. Anyway, I'm sure a top end modern phone would outperform a 2010 compact... but, as this thread highlights, each to their own!

 Robert Durran 03 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> What compact camera have you seen that has a viewfinder since about 2002?

Sony RX. I have recently upgraded from the Mk1 to Mk3 because I got fed up without one - removes a lot of the pleasure of taking photos for me. Lumix LX100(I covet one?). And the Lumix ones with the long zooms (forget name). I would never again buy a camera with no viewfinder.

 The Lemming 03 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> If you want to buy a fancy phone for a good camera you really want an iPhone Pro or whatever the Samsung flagship is called. They have the best hardware, the google phone is mainly very good software dressing on top of a quite low quality sensor IIRC. 

They all have so-so sensors and rely on software dressing to jazz up the images. Mirrorless cameras are more and more using this technology to make further improvements on a better sensor and glass.

My Google Pixel 6 is completely waterproof for the great outdoors, and on a good dry day, its as slippy as a bar of soap. On a wet day, I imagine it would be a nightmare.

 Marek 03 Nov 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

> I was spitballing. Anyway, I'm sure a top end modern phone would outperform a 2010 compact... but, as this thread highlights, each to their own!

Out of curiosity I tested (raw pictures) my 2008 Lumix LX3 against a modern - albeit not top end - phone (Moto G-something) and really it's no contest. The image quality (resolution, noise, aberrations) are far better in the LX3. And it has optical zoom & buttons. No idea about a 2022 Pixel/Samsung/Apple since I don't anyone who has one to test.

Having said that, can I tell which out-of-camera JPEG is better at UKC picture resolution? Probably not.

 TobyA 03 Nov 2022
In reply to The Lemming:

> My Google Pixel 6 is completely waterproof for the great outdoors, and on a good dry day, its as slippy as a bar of soap. On a wet day, I imagine it would be a nightmare.

Can't you just get a nice rubbery case to both protect it and make it easy to hold?

 The Lemming 03 Nov 2022
In reply to TobyA:

> Can't you just get a nice rubbery case to both protect it and make it easy to hold?

Yes and yes.

The hard part was using a Hole-punch so that I could attach a lanyard to my phone.

 TobyA 03 Nov 2022
In reply to The Lemming:

> The hard part was using a Hole-punch so that I could attach a lanyard to my phone.

I used the random spikey thing on my Swiss Army knife that nobody knows what to call!

 65 03 Nov 2022
In reply to TobyA:

> I used the random spikey thing on my Swiss Army knife that nobody knows what to call!

Billy Connolly imagined the Swiss Army as parading to calls of, "Presennnnnnt....thing for taking stones out of horses hoofs with."  

 Robert Durran 03 Nov 2022
In reply to 65:

> Billy Connolly imagined the Swiss Army as parading to calls of, "Presennnnnnt....thing for taking stones out of horses hoofs with."  

Funnily enough, I was talking about that sketch with someone today while cutting up cheese, but I'd remembered it as Eddie Izzard. I think now it was Connolly though.


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