UKH

Hi folks,

we are heading off on a couple of long trips. First one being West coast of the US and Hawaii and the second one an RV trip round most of the National Parks in that general west coast area, Yellowstone, Yosemite etc.

I'm a bt of a techno biff but have recently bought a GoPro and its amazing for everything but what I'd like to do after looking on line and seeing some amazing videos is invest in a decent drone to get some aerial footage and just a different perspective of all the places we will be going.

I know nothing about these things at all, have no idea which ones are good bad or indifferent so just after some advice and I realise they aren't everyones cup of tea but nevertheless, I'd like one :0)

I'd like it to be able to follow the family kayaking etc, have really good video capability, not too big (something easily carried on as hand luggage), a decent flight time and generally good all round performance and user friendly and I'd rather not use my GoPro with it.

If you have any recommendation up to about £200 possibly/probably more and any links showing any of the above features that would be great.

I've spent a lot of time looking online which is fairly bias but never used one and I know there are a few of you on here who do and some of the videos are outstanding.

Thanks in advance,

Den  

Hello

Don't bother with a drone costing around £200 as you will only get a toy.  However if you want a toy then there are many good drones to be had at that price range.

If you want an excellent drone that is light and does 4k footage then you're in luck.  Yesterday DJI brought out a new drone called a Mavic Air, and I will probably be getting one this year.

I used to own the Mavic Pro and that too is an excellent drone with superb filming capabilities.

DJI is the market leader.

youtube.com/watch?v=DYdCpl-ToOI&

Here is a video I made with my Mavic Pro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwxzNS-dpcQ&t=3s

Well worth checking in advance, but I believe that the US National Park Service limits or prohibits the flying of drones in at least some of the Parks,
https://www.nps.gov/articles/unmanned-aircraft-in-the-national-parks.htm

Cheers for the replies guys.

Bob, spoke to at least 3 parks and although it says not permitted it seems to depend on where you are, amount of people etc  and being typically british, we would be discreet and not upst the apple cart but thanks for pointing it out :0)

 Den 

As Mr lemming says £200 is not really enough unless you are prepared to build your own from old tech.

If you want something that'll give you a decent HD or 4K picture then you are looking at least £500 for a DJI spark, more if you want something better/more flexible (the Spark only operates within wifi range of a phone without a controller (another £250+)

Lemming is also correct that there is very little that will touch a DJI for reliability and quality.

I have a Mavic Pro and it is very good... second hand you could probably pick one up for about £800 with a single battery (you'll want more)

It's not for "fun flying" if you want that then get a proper racing drone, but it does all sorts of stuff like tracking a target, follow me mode, auto panoramas etc.

The camera is amazingly good for the size and footage is rock steady.

If you are going to use it as you suggest, then I recommend getting it early and getting familiar with it - they can be a bit intimidating at first and it takes a while to trust your £1K flying machine isn't going to f-off back to china. 

IF you are interested, I am considering selling mine (& 3 batteries, full set of filters and spares etc) and would be a happy to demo it, take you through the basics etc if you are at all nearby Edit: I see you are in the states already... change the prices above from £ to $ and it won't be far off

With the new one out you might find a few Mavic Pro's going cheap

I think drones will radically change the face of adventure sport film making (they have already) but they do have a downside in remote areas, they are noisy. As a result you should be a little careful when others are around, especially if they are travelling in remote areas where the last thing they want is the noise of a drone.

There are restrictions on drone use and it is likely that these will become greater as time passes so keep up to date with recent changes to the law.

Funny you should mention drones f-off back to China.  Last year my Mavic Pro reversed into trees on the opposite side of a river.

I thought I was using a preprogrammed feature to stop this happening.  DJI confirmed I was saying was accurate but they would not help even though I had a warranty.  Their excuse was that the drone did not have rear sensors and it was my fault.

I got my pennies back via my credit card and Section 75.

I wasn't going to get anther drone until I saw the new Mavic Air had rear sensors.  This will make flying considerably safer and make me confident to buy one.

As to the OP, when I was first looking at drones a few years ago, balmybaldwin have me some good advice.  This was to buy a cheap toy drone and learn how to fly that first.

This will give you more confidence to fly close to a grand's worth of a toy.  You will also be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to play with the big boy DJI drone. However once a DJI drone loses GPS signal it becomes as squirrelly as the cheap toy drone and you will be thankful of the flight training you put in for such an event.

I hate to piss on your chips but the US National Park Service have various drone bans still in force at many of their key venues.  If the reason for getting a drone is for these venues then you may want to consider a kite with gimble mount for your GoPro instead.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/unmanned-aircraft-in-the-national-parks.htm

Cool vid. Deserves more views.

You're  too kind.

Rad bloc vid dude. Heinous send. Sick toons.

I thought you were a school teacher? No wonder children seem to have such poor grammar if that is the standard of English used by school teachers.

Its not working.

Yes.... wreckin' a 10 bucks drone isn't too bad... wreckin' a 900 one is.

That said, if you add a few more bucks, you can get something like this:
https://www.banggood.com/Eachine-E58-WIFI-FPV-With-2MP-Wide-Angle-Camera-Hi...

I did, and planning on testing it properly @ 'Bleau this spring. It certainly isn't a proper drone, but cheap and can be also used for some aerial footage (w/ the 2Mpix camera, so 720p).

Before the old people start farting on about more grammer.

Get a DJI Spark. Compact, simple, captures incredible quality footage.

Yep, a Spark ticks all the boxes.

If its for a once in life time sort of holiday, and money is no object, then the Mavic Pro should be your number one choice.  Unless you pixel peep, or you are filming in dark locations then the Mavic Pro takes footage almost indistinguishable from the more expensive DJI professional drones.  The camera is really that good.

However, I'd wait a few weeks and see how the new Mavic Air plays out in the real world.  On paper, its camera is just as good and now has a higher bit rate for capturing movies.

Top tip.  If you do invest in an expensive flying camera buy some filters.  These will give you better movie results.

If I was given the choice I would still choose the DJI Spark because it is so incredibly compact. Go to the shop and imagine carrying the Mavic Pro with you around on your holidays...it will put you off.

Again, the image quality is stunning with the Spark and the Mavic Pro - though stunning- at 4K is overkill imo, unless you are making a feature film with it and watching it on a 100 inch screen - which 99% of people will not do.

I bought a Mavic Pro Platinum last month. It is portable enough that I can throw it (well, place it gently) in my LowePro with the rest of my camera equipment. It is also quiet, notably quieter than the Mavic Pro. Camera is the same as Mavic Pro. My mate has the Phantom 4 pro which has a much better camera but is much heavier and doesn't fold up. It is also seriously loud.

I bought it to film adventure sports but have found out there are very few ecologists with permission (you dont get a licence in the UK, you get permission from the CAA once you've passed a course) to work commercially so I think it may be pressed into doing that too.

And they are addictive!!!

This seems like a bit of an abusive use of Section 75 to me, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying? The product you bought worked exactly as it was designed to, with no manufacturing faults. You used it successfully for a while (including for the posted video) but then, through user error and misunderstanding its capabilities, you flew it into a tree and claimed your money back?!

Even this BBC article from when the drone launched clearly states that the collision avoidance sensors are forward facing... "The machine includes a front-facing collision-avoidance system that can spot obstacles up to 15m (49ft) away" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37475568

If it's mentioned in a general interest article by the BBC, it's surely in the instruction manual. I can see how the accident would make you pretty grumpy about your loss but claiming your money back because you screwed up kind of undermines the case for consumer protection laws.

I used to own a Mavic Pro, I don't need to imagine and it did not put me off.  Also a Mavic Pro packs down better than a Spark simply because the propellers fold away and don't get stuck or snag on anything in a bag or pocket.

Again with a Mavic Pro there is a 3 axis gimbal, this is far superior in every respect to a 2 axis gimbal.  Also the ability to film in 4k allows you to down-res in post production.  This step gives you a far sharper movie than shooting in 1080p.

As I said earlier, a DJI Spark ticks all the boxes.  However if money is no object then a Mavic Pro is a better option.

I am sorry to say that without going into minute detail you are misunderstanding the complexities of the issue and I was not abusing the Section 75.  I genuinely had a fault which DJI acknowledged but as they are based in Hong Kong, they would not cooperate in the same way that a UK based company would, which left me no option other than contact my Credit Card company.

I wouldn't touch the Spark, especially not with the new Mavik Air available.

The Spark only works on Wifi which gives it a range of 100m-ish. The Mavik Air and Mavik Pro use radio signal which works up to 8km (so they say).

Alan

This youtube gives the main differences.

youtube.com/watch?v=DYdCpl-ToOI&

I'm going to wait a few months before I decide on a Mavic Air.  This will allow DJI to iron out any production faults and rush jobs off the production line to meet demand.

Looks like I am wrong about it only working on phone wifi. But still the range isn't great - 2km compared to 7km. Having said that, 2km is a long way and you will seldom need more than that.

I must admit that the new Mavik Air looks the business from that video.

Alan

Do you work for DJI or something? Ye! They're all good.

Going back to OP's post...I don't think they would need/want anything more than a Spark considering you pay almost double for an Air or Mavic Pro.

Hi folks,

many thanks for the replies, much appreciated and apologies for my tardy replies, been too busy enjoing the cold weather with the kids here in the US.

I have managed to loan a Mavik Air for the next month or so thanks to a benevolent neighbour who is off on travels. He is currently making adverts for the National Mall here in DC as well as Arlington Cemetery and they are outstanding so I'm looking forward to having a play!

Just a follow up on National Park rules as this is why I wanted one. I've been told you can actually use them discreetly if no one else is around and I get the fact that you're out in nature, they're noisy and you should be enjoying yourself but a 10 minute snapshot from a different perspective with all of us climbing, paddleboarding etc would be a good memory to have.

Cheers, Den 

Would it be possible for you to give an update of your thoughts on this drone after a month or so?

I really am interested in getting one, now that they have reversing cameras and sensors.

They've already been banned in the Dartmoor National Park although permission can be sought from DNP for commercial  use.

If you are going to fly it, be careful in Yellowstone and Yosemite. I saw people being kicked out of the park for drone use in areas where you'd not expect to see Rangers. 

I'd have loved to have had my drone with me but I didn't - the peace the quiet is too nice and the risk of getting busted just isn't worth it.

Apart from the specific rules about National Parks, there are lots of rules about generally using it anywhere.  You are responsible for knowing about and following those rules as well.  I also believe there is a requirement for registration that you should be sure to comply with.

American cops are generally friendly and easy going when you aren't breaking the law.  When you are doing something you aren't supposed to, they are considerably more aggressive.  I'd hate for your holiday and American experience to be ruined.

Drones. The only justification for gun ownership in the US.

In reply to greenbit:

Good god what a rubbish bit of stealth marketing/spam that is......could you not even be bothered to change the URL to something more related ?

Don't get a drone. When outside, go for a genuine first person adventure and leave your noisy toys behind. There's no point arseing around with remote control toys on the understanding that looking back at the footage and thinking that was the adventure, the adventure is what you get with your senses first hand, the scars and impressions seared out to your memory not your betamax footage.

If you want to piss around with technolog,y keep your techno biffing in the garage and leave the wild alone.

Betamax footage? Errr think your rather behind the times oldster!

I’m going to have to re think going to the cinema then. (Or movies in American)

Given that - and the fact that it's about half the price - 355€/706€ would you be tempted to go for a Spark? Am I right in thinking they have the same camera?

grammar

No well at least not the same stabilisation system - spark is only 2 axis

bored old people*

What exactly about ILLEGAL IN NATIONAL PARKS do you not get?

What you've been told is that you can BREAK THE LAW and maybe not get caught.

US National Parks are packed to the gills---discrete use with no one else around is a fantasy.  Count on the fact that you will be intruding on the experiences of others that the parks were supposed to provide, rather than focusing on whether or not your illegal usage will be detected by the authorities.

Just in case there is any doubt about "discrete use":

"Yosemite National Park advises visitors that the use of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (Drones) are prohibited within park boundaries due to regulations outlined in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Specifically, the use of drones within the park boundaries is illegal under all circumstances. Thirty Six CFR 2.17(a)(3) states, “delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit” is illegal. This applies to drones of all shapes and sizes.

The park has experienced an increase in visitors using drones within park boundaries over the last few years. Drones have been witnessed filming climbers ascending climbing routes, filming views above tree-tops, and filming aerial footage of the park. Drones can be extremely noisy, and can impact the natural soundscape. Drones can also impact the wilderness experience for other visitors creating an environment that is not conducive to wilderness travel. The use of drones also interferes with emergency rescue operations and can cause confusion and distraction for rescue personnel and other parties involved in the rescue operation. Additionally, drones can have negative impacts on wildlife nearby the area of use, especially sensitive nesting peregrine falcons on cliff walls.

Visitors traveling to the park should be aware that the use of drones is prohibited while visiting the park and should not be utilized at any time."

Thanks for that. Searching a bit more I find that the price of 355€ is for the drone only, it doesn't include the controller, which is 100€ or so more. And a bit more googling suggests that it's not great with an Android phone - is that still the case?

The camera isn’t the same but it does have similar specs. From what I have read it’s main plus features are size and auto features for filming video (and price obviously). I am exclusively interested in photos so all the auto features don’t factor.

One big thing though is how well the drone performs in the wind. Here I suspect the mavik wins hands down. You always end up flying in the wind and the mavik performs incredibly well. I did lose control once when the wind was too strong but that’s another story. I have flown it in pretty blustery conditions and it is still remarkably stable. It eats battery flying against the wind though so you have to take that into account in terms of return to base times, but when actually in the air, it is incredibly solid. My suspicion is that the Spark will be nowhere near as solid and, depending on what you are using it for, flying in breezy conditions is pretty much essential.

Long way of saying that i’d probably still buy the mavik.

Alan

Thanks, Alan. Do you, or anyone else, know the answer to my other question on whether they (Spark) are compatible with Android phones - I keep finding conflicting information.

Denni, sorry about the hijack...

I've been using a Mavic Air whilst up in Norway the last couple of weeks, a couple of photos here - https://www.instagram.com/p/Bfa1M-UH65F/?taken-by=paulsmith_coach, https://www.instagram.com/p/Bfi-dcMnm6j/?taken-by=paulsmith_coach and https://www.instagram.com/p/Bftmw7qni6_/?taken-by=paulsmith_coach

I have really impressed with it in terms of packablity (we were on an 8 day hut to hut trip), how it handled the cold (down passed - 25C) and it was pretty good with the wind, but like Alan says, the batteries do tend to get eaten faster, when it has to fight the conditions. A friend has a Spark and it performs, pretty similar, apart from the cold!

I've not used my Air, without the controller, so not sure, if there are any issues when using only an Andriod phone for control, but friends haven't had issues with both the Air and the Spark.

My DJI Spark works well with a Android phone such as the Samsung A5 2017 and it flies pretty well in blustery high winds and sub zero temperatures in the Cairngorms, well at least until you try and land it on your hand as you are being blown about!

See my drone playlist at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5IalMM086Hjaw4-ujkTYLPm4NpE3T7s3 and 100 mph winds while sheltered in the forest!!!!!

See  youtube.com/watch?v=jkoOMZuuYfc&

I am seriously considering getting a Mavic air after owning a Mavic Pro.

May I ask if the drone's rotors ever got captured by the camera/gimbal while filming?

If so was this fleeting or did they get captured quite a lot when turning or moving the drone?

I have not noticed the rotors at all. And I have tried to do it. I managed it far too frequently with my Phantom 3!

The rumour is that the Mavic Pro 2's are due to be released shortly, so it maybe worth waiting and seeing what they offer in terms of battery life etc.

Yes they are compatible (as is the mavic if you wished) the problem is the control is only via wifi which has extremely limited reliable range (20m)... good enough for some functions  but would restrict most flights.

Absolutely useless for "catching it" if something goes wrong- for that you need proper controller with wifi the craft will either hover or land where it is... this may be ok but may be not (e.g. above water or near people)

The mavic pro will need more sensors before I consider another one.  Mine reversed into a tree.

Have you seen the Skydio drone? Very expensive, and inferior to DJI's cheaper drones in several ways, but seems like the future of obstacle avoidance. It has cameras facing all directions and seems to be capable of using them for autonomous tracking through quite complex environments. Casey Neistat has a video about it on YouTube.

Thanks. I've just discovered this https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/donnees/restrictions-pour-drones-de-loisir The area I live in is unfortunately rather restricted. Either totally or with a max height of 50m. Does the map of the UK look similar?

I'll wait till the price drops.  However it has the potential to knock DJI off the top spot.

Sorry Jon, can't help with that.

Is it during normal use that Android phones when used with the dedicated controller are coming up as incompatible, or is it in the specific use where you fly the drone using only the phone using its wifi signal? If the latter then I doubt you would ever do that much unless you are after the elaborate selfie filming ie. having the phone in your pocket and having the drone follow you on auto-mode.

Alan

The rumour mill for the new Magic Pro sounds  interesting. These are just rumours but a 1 inch camera sensor and rear drone sensors make for a good upgrade.

Well for instance this from the dji forum (and similar stuff from elsewhere but equally other stuff contradicting it...!):

Ok, that doesn't sound great then.

Alan

Why do some of the quotes I've just posted appear in italics as they should, and others don't?

That's strange bug Jon. All 4 lines look to start the same in the database. I'll sort it out.

The code was matching >{space} and the spaces from the copied text on the 3rd and 4th lines were some other white-space character. I'll add a fix for that.

I know that there are loads of DJI Mavic Air reviews but this one only lasts a couple of minutes.

I am trying really hard not to crack open the credit card to buy one.

youtube.com/watch?v=LPc9Ul29Q6w&

wait for the mavic pro v2!

If the rumours are true, and it has a 1 inch sensor.  Sold!

There's no way you can fly legally in the UK out at 2km let alone 7, you simply can't see well enough to control it if you can see it at all which is very unlikely.

jk

I am guessing that you haven't flown a Mavik. You can't see a Mavik at 200m never mind 2km. You might be able to hear it. You can, however, fly it perfectly well, although obviously this does depend a bit on the surroundings.

Alan

I haven't but I know perfectly well you can't, I struggle to visually fly similar sized main-and-tail helicopters out at 20m let alone 200 or 2k. Unless the law has changed recently when flying models legally in the UK either the pilot or a nominated spotter with over-ride control has to maintain visual contact with the model at all times. My point isn't about control, it's about UK law.

jk

The Mavic Pro is going to have to be something spectacular, and not any bigger to make me want to part with my cash after seeing this.

youtube.com/watch?v=L9nl7jCCquQ&

It does look good. The Mavic Pro is pretty awesome too though.

I actually brought my DJI Spark with me to Rjukan in Norway to do some ice climbing and video - if you enjoy both, why not combine it as long as you put safety first?

You can check out my shots at  youtube.com/watch?v=Jk15aG30qno&.

Hi I just want to give my personal opinion about this.. so about £200 budget, if you could add a little bit more, DJI Spark is the best that i could suggest.  I personally think that, DJI is a leading manufacturer or i would say top brand, so there is no issue about low quality build.

I would agree to this.