UKH

For almost 30 years I've always had a an SLR. I built up a decent set of kit in the past decade, but it's become an albatross around my neck since having kids 7 years ago. I don't take photos anymore because I don't have time or space to take my gear. It's depressing me that I don't use it, but it doesn't fit my lifestyle. It's too bulky for sporting activities, it's too much extra for bird watching (on top of telescope). I'm considering selling it and switching to something lighter and easier. Just not sure what. I can accept losing the 200+ mm ability but I love my macro and the higher quality of shooting in 14bit raw.

Is there anything that ticks all the boxes for waterproof, quality optics, RAW, decent macro. Or do I go for 2 and gets waterproof, chuck in a rucksack for £300ish and a decent bridge camera for £700 ish. I'm expecting to fund it from the sale of my SLR gear (two tripods, 170-500mm, 60mm macro, 17-85mm, canon 60d, batteries, rucksack).

I know they'll be people with SLRs who respond that they use theirs, but trust me, I've taken it on many outdoor holiday, and once the bags are packed it's still in the car. Or even more ridiculously, last holiday i had to walk back to the car. Dump all the binoculars and telescope I had with me to show the kids some puffins and go back later with just my camera gear to take the pictures - 2 months on I've not even processed them.

In reply to Philip:

G1x iii? 

Good luck on your search whatever you go for

S

In reply to Smythson:

Well, I quickly found waterproof means nothing more than about 120mm. Olympus TG6 looks pretty nice. Might sell just the canon 60d and main lens to avoid it going to waste and keep the rest just in case.

In reply to Philip:

Olympus Tough series, I think 5 is the current one. Very small, shoots 16MB RAW, waterproof to 15m, drop test 1.5m, hot cold , ludicrously good macro - shots from 2mm (good enough for individual elements of a fly's eye, hairs on a leaf), lots of macro modes inc composite so it builds a shot at different focal points so increasing depth of field). Downside on the Tough 4, no full manual, manual focus can be done but it is a faff - I think it is easier on 5. A camera I take loads of good pics with, because I take it! I dive with it, climb with it, it goes out in the rain and snow. The SLR comes out when I have time and space, and for looking into space on the back of a telescope. So that's my tuppence worth.

In reply to philhilo:

There is a Tough 6, seems only to add digital zoom and aperture priority, which would be useful. If the 5 has AP I might get one of those and see how it goes. Just packing for a holiday and the SLR kit is still packed from the last one.

In reply to Philip:

I would take a look at the Sony RX100 VII (or VI) as it has a big zoom range and an amazing sensor

Tim

In reply to philhilo:

I echo that.

TG5 is pretty capable, but importantly always with me. Which means photos get taken, timing/location trumping most things imho. I am sure there was some saying about the best camera being the one you had with you at the time.

Added a UV filter via adapter so if I scratch it, it's protected. The rest of it is pretty rugged.

Fabulous macro pictures of dragonflies today on the descent from Etchachan today for example.

In reply to RunningInCircles:

I'm sold. Just trying to decide between TG5 and 6. It's £150 less for the TG5 but find it odd to buy a previous version.

Advice about the protective lense is good. Thanks.

In reply to Philip:

Lack of viewfinder in many can be a problem in bright conditions.

In reply to RunningInCircles:

Which is as daft as the thing about the best climber being the one having the most fun. I think the point is that it can be better to have a worse camera if you are more likely to carry it.

In reply to Philip:

Micro four thirds camera small enough for you?

In reply to Philip:

Buy smaller, lighter cameras but don't ditch the SLR. I'm glad I didn't.

In reply to Philip:

I have the TG5 and find it a good camera for it’s type (and it has an impressive macro program as mentioned). I got it for ease of carrying a camera to be readily available in situations when taking a larger camera outside is not practical.

It does have it’s limitations as you would expect for the size of sensor and the IQ is not to everyone’s taste, but I like it overall and with recording in raw you get the scope to adjust the files to suit.

Be aware with the Tough cameras there is a well known problem of lens flare in certain circumstances. This is present in the 5 though fortunately I’ve not seen it too often.

Whilst I like the TG5 for it’s compact size, rugged nature, overall ability for it’s type and ease of use without worrying about getting it wet or damaged, etc, personally I would not like to have it as my only camera. 

I think you may be disappointed coming from a DSLR with interchangeable lens if this is to be your only camera. As a take it with you versatile rugged compact camera however it is good though for it’s type.

In reply to Philip:

Fuji X Pro 2 has great weather sealing and with a fixed 28 and a couple of zooms will bring back your love for photography.

In reply to Philip:

If you are looking for a great weather sealed camera that is one generation back and can still compete with some of the best then may I suggest a Panasonic camera?

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/search/?www-product-search=gh4&www-department...

I have this camera at the moment and have no intentions to upgrade until at least the next available GH6, which probably isn't on the drawingboard yet.

In reply to Philip:

I have the Olympus TG4 which is very similar to more recent TG5&6. It is great as a fully waterproof and tuff camera, I use it for sea kayaking. However image quality is far short of DSLR due to small sensor and limited dynamic range etc. RAW is useful in extracting shadow and highlight detail which can mitigate this to some extent. It would be good as part of a 2 camera combination 

In reply to Philip:

If you insist on a fully waterproof camera, I think you will be sacrificing a lot in image quality and versatility. If I was in your position, I would go for something, perhaps weather sealed, but which ticks lots more boxes and which certainly has a viewfinder (coming from a DSLR, photography will lose a lot of its pleasure without one!). Then maybe pick up a cheap older model or second hand waterproof camera for the occasions you really need it.

In reply to Philip:

I ditched Canon DSLR a good while back. Having tried early Pano & Sony 4/3, I found Fuji-X cameras brought back my love of taking photos.

You still have to put the time in tho RAW processing, so any RAW shooting may not suit your current life versus time pressures. Although Fuji jpg are some of the best out there (like for like), RAW will get more out of the images.

I don't think there is any magic solution for you.  Photography takes time. A phone may suit your better for the moment until you have more time.  Maybe just accept it for the time being.

In reply to kevin stephens:

Pretty sure TG5 or 6 is the way to go. Right now I want to take photos not worry about 'photography'. Might get a wide angle prime for my canon and a TG6 for bike/water/climbing fun.

In reply to Philip:

Oly TG-6 is the new one..I have a TG-4..with the options to make even more rugged..eg silicone sleeve, adapter for UV filter, made a tougher strap etc..The TG-4 has aperture priority mode, ISO 100, & in microscope mode shoots as close as 1cm !!..Best smallest camera I have had....also it is 16MP...the TG-5 & 6 are 12MP...sensor is the same size, just the pitch size of the photosites is different to produce better images...supposedly...& even the TG-4 shoots RAW.

However due to pixel peeping QC of the stock sites I sell on I had to up my camera specs.....now...Oly OM-D, EM-1 MKii…..so that's a 20MP M43 sensor which can on a tripod move the sensor around & recompose 8 shots into a 50MP high res image....splash proof, dust proof, & -10C proof.....& so is the lens I have on all the time a 12-40mm f2.8pro (24-80mm fl in 35mm)..& the body & lens are bang on 1kg...…& the new v3.1 firmware has drastically improved the low light AF...

PS I also have the Oly 60mm f2.8 macro & the 40-150mm f2.8pro tele & the new x2 teleconverter...…..the body with the 40-150 & x2 gives me a 600mm f5.6 & weighs under 1.8kg....!!& x2 is very sharp

In reply to RunningInCircles:

Noticed your photo, don't take this the wrong way but the focus seems to be off as a bit of wing and some boulder are sharp and the rest not. It wouldn't persuade me to purchase a TG-5 (and I have mulled one over before)

In reply to Philip:

I gave up with DSLRs a few years ago, heavy and the ever-present issue with dust.

I now use a Panasonic TZ100 (24-250mm) for climbing and Sony RX10 (24-600mm) for everything else. Don't miss the DSLR one bit,

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Thanks, very useful. What made you choose the TZ100, because when I started down the route (decent optics, compact form) I started with a canon (as that's what I know) and found a myriad of options.

In reply to Philip:

Came top in a DPreview test of travel compacts, good enough for me!

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Okay. The TZ70 was on my list for macro capability. It's a toss up now with something like that or a waterproof camera.

In reply to Philip:

If you go for a TG6 get it from Guernsey Photographics - I happened to walk past in my lunchbreak and was pleasantly surprised to see it's significantly cheaper than Wex, historically they weren't competitive on price.

In reply to Snowdave:

Is the aperture "real" though, or just a gain setting dressed up as aperture? 

In reply to Philip:

I've had a TG4 for a few years and have not really used it that much (I do have a lot of other cameras). 
I've found that in water, it really needs a LOT of light to focus. 
I've had some nice pics from it but since last year, something has gone wrong with its AF, it now needs a LOT of light to focus even in open air. It did take a few impacts in the Alps on a trip last year but nothing that a TG-4 should not be able to brush off easily. I wonder if this is the cause of the problem. Also the mount for the filter adaptor (or in my case the wide angle adaptor for underwater) has gradually disintegrated and is now unusable. 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I look half my wife's Fuji out on Monday. She just wanted something to work out the box and I found it frustrating. Where exposure control and continuous shooting are instinctive on a 60d, this required menus.

Perhaps I'm just finding excuses for not taking photos.

In reply to Philip:

Which Fuji?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

ISO in other words?

In reply to Philip:

It's a tough decision.

I recently bought a 'rucksack shoulder mount' that allowed me to have my SLR close to hand so you get more then just carpark and summit shots. I gave it a test drive on the Snowdon horseshoe the other month and for some treks around Chamonix a few weeks ago.

Plus points:

I took loads of photos
Lock mechanism is easy to release

Minus points

You have just bolted 1.5-2kg weight to your shoulder and my god you feel it after several hours
Your gear is exposed to the elements
You get funny looks from other walkers who think you have that shoulder gun thing that the Predator has.

In reply to Robert Durran:

F660EXR.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Possibly, it's an odd one and I may well be wrong in the case of the TG-4 but I've seen it on other compacts where the purported "aperture" is not an aperture but something else. Not necessarily ISO, some used to slide an ND filter across the sensor!

In reply to Philip:

Damn you! Some years ago I had an F300EXR which I kind of liked but sold on because I needed the money at the time (and a friend wanted it) and "pixel peeping" put me off it, but I've been toying with the idea of getting something like it again, for fun. Then I forgot. Now you've reminded me! I found the long end of the lens to work a lot better than expected.

In reply to Philip:

I was very much in the same position as yourself with regards family and photography , I still upgraded the DSLR with the lenses, however I do use an Olympus OMD em5 because the big kit can be a problem.

that patch were kids seem all consuming will pass (and you’ll miss it)

the Olympus can fit in a jacket pocket or be clipped onto a climbing harness

its tough, weather proof and you can get good raw pics out of it, the micro four third lenses are very good, if your taking wildlife photos M4/3 can give you a long reach for your buck.

In reply to Philip:

It's not quite fair to expect the shooting experience of a point&shoot pocket compact to compare with a DSLR.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Not the point of the comment. But thanks for your contribution.

In reply to jethro kiernan:

Strictly speaking the MFT is not a dSLR, but a mirrorless camera .

that being said, a smaller mirrorless system would be the way to go. Nearly dSLR quality & control, but in a more compact package. Perhaps supplemented with a tiny cheapo climbing camera.

In reply to Philip:

What WAS the point of the comment, then? Not being harsh (it just looks that way in plain text - don't take it the wrong way please). I don't see how it ties into my comment that you were seemingly replying to. 

FWIW I have a mirrorless camera and you annoyingly have to go through menus to change certain fundamentals so this is not just something to do with compacts. 
 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

That buying a compact won't necessarily solve my problem. It was in the context of the rest of my posts and not an isolated, and pointless, observation that compacts are more complex for changing 'advanced' settings. I'm not trying to find a compact that's equivalent to my SLR, I'm trying to find something I'll be happy using. Having tried my wife's compact though, it's looking more a case of nothing is easier than just trying to take the camera with me more.

I clicked reply to thread which directed it at you as the last post but really it was a reply to the topic.

I might try just sticking a pancake lense on my 60d and throwing it in the bag and see what that's like.

In reply to ChrisJD:

My reply was a bit to sarcastic. Nice Flickr gallery.

In reply to Philip:

I did wonder about all the recommendations for a TG-4/5/6!

As someone who owns a dSLR and a mirrorless, I can say that carrying my mirrorless (a now quite aged Sony NEX F3 which is not a recommendation, it is 8-year old technology but I got it cheap and it serves my purposes) is nice, it almost feels like "nothing". I do several whistle-stop trips around Italy each year and the Sony is ideal for this. On my last trip I did decide to take the Canon 600D with one light prime lens (cheap plastic body Yongnuo 35mm f/2.0) and enjoyed it but you definitely felt like "man with bigger camera". 

I'd go with a Panasonic or Olympus mirrorless, do your research and see which is best. If feeling flush maybe a higher end Fuji. I have no experience of any of those.
My Sony is limited somewhat by lack of lenses which is one reason I went for a dSLR to supplement it, but Panasonic and Olympus are better served for lens choice on the mirrorless. 

In reply to HeMa:

I beg to differ. Mirrorless MFT can and do compete on every level with dSLR. The only difference is a mirror which is just a flappy thing that is only there to allow the viewer to see the subject matter. The mirror does not add anything to the image quality captured, beyond making sure the lens is pointing at the subject.

In reply to The Lemming:

And since when THAT ever matter in photography?

MFT without a very good EVF, still loses out to SLR in some circumstances for reasons beyond image quality. 

In reply to The Lemming:

Depends on the dSLR and the mirrorless.

For MFT, higher end fullframe will provide better IQ (the cost being they are bigger/heavier). This is mainly due to the sensor size. So if you shell out more, say for Pany S1R or Nikon Z7, less of an issue.

And as pointed out EVF vs real viewfinder... sometimes the latter is needed/better.

That being said, I'd say for most the MFT platform (or other crop mirrorless system) are more than good enough. And I personally am in the MFT camp, with 4 MFT camera (including the GH4R) and no plans for switching systems (unless I win the lottery... in which case the new L-mount concertum seems likely).

In reply to HeMa:

Sorry, a little rushed 😏the Olympus  MFT is in addition to the big heavy DSLR. 😀

In reply to Philip:

For near the price of a new TG 6, you can get a used minty Fuji XT1+zoom kit lens . Or an even smaller, but not so weather resistant XT10/20 add the 27mm f.2.8 'pancake'  lens and you've got a small travel pocketable system.

For 20 quid,get a lens adaptor to use your canon lenses on the fuji body when your able to justify the time and weight (those fuji film simulations,, and jpeg are fantastic!) 

Check your local Gumtree?

In reply to dek:

If going prime-only lens route, then a 2nd hand Fuji X100T can be had for £400-£500.

The compactness benefit of mirrorless vs dslr disappears when you get a number of high quality zoom lenses. I’m sticking with my small Pentax Dslr with very compact limited prime lenses/small limited zoom. Plus the TG4 for wet work. If a weatherpoof compact can shoot in Raw you can usually get away with leaving it on Program and iso 200 or 400

In reply to ChrisJD:

I fancy the 100f. But a new one is due out soon..?

Just upgraded to XT3 and the F2 trinity lenses. 2 months old for less than body alone price!

Flogged my XT2 mint body for 500..."beans and toast for a while" but loving it so far...but those menu options!!

In reply to dek:

Yep, I upgraded from XT-2 to XT-3 a few weeks back, the cash back & trade in bonus offers were hard to refuse!