UKH

We are all aware of the need to follow the covid rules, as has been highlighted by several threads on here. So, am I being picky when two of this week's top ten photos were taken during the current lockdown rules but feature three people together (climber, belayer and photographer). I wish I had two brothers or sisters (or wives).

Yes, you're being picky and judgemental. Unless you know any of them personally or are going way overboard into cyber-stalking territory, you have no idea whether those presumed threesomes are a household or a bubble. And frankly, even if they are bending the rules, the fact that they're outdoors and clearly a substantial distance apart makes the real covid transmission risk close to zero.

Personally, I've chosen not to climb since November, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna start judging other people for carefully doing something I love. Especially if my evidence that they're even breaking the rules at all is just assuming the worst.

Or housemates? Or family members? Or support bubbleists?

Nothing to stop a photographer working. We’re allowed to travel for work.. it’s not as if we can do it at home.

Which? https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/top10.php

Some are people soloing and in the others the climber, belayer and photographer are all many metres apart? 

Canon 200mm 2.8 😁

Seems lots of space and fresh air with a breeze most likely.

I'm more worried at that bouldering high ball risk! 

I know for a fact that the people bouldering at wolfhole are actually all students who live together so please get down from your high horse!

Facts?! Where do you think we are? 2015?

Hi, I took the bouldering photo from Wolfhole. We specifically choose that crag as its incredibly unlikely that we would meet any other climbers there. As Jack said, the people in the photo are both my housemates so we're in the same bubble. 

Great can of worms opened.

I can't justify breaking the government rules by travelling outside my local area to climb and meeting up with more than one person from outside my 'bubble, but that's me. I'm not suggesting that their activities are likely to spread the virus.

And I'm referring to the people leading, not bouldering. The Roaches are not local to Matlock!

There’s no legal definition of local. If your normal bouldering trip from Matlock was the pass, or somewhere in the Lakes then the Roaches by comparison would definitely be local. We could argue over that until we were blue in the face but people are well within their rights to follow the law and not the purposely vague guidance because at the end of the day, the courtroom will pay absolutely no attention to guidance. 

I understand the law isn’t very definitive (and I wish it was), however the guidance was firmed up - “village, town or part of city”.

I think of people who completely ignore that, in a similar way to people who avoid paying tax, using legal means.

That’s fine and completely your right. It’s still only guidance.

Personally I’ve not gone more than about 15 miles for climbing, and only out of my county boundary twice (by about half a mile each time - doesn’t help living close to said boundary). I’ve been all over the north west and down to Birmingham for work though. It is completely insane that it’s ok to travel for one reason but not the other, especially when the other is far safer in transmission terms. Ironically I could travel the 60 miles down to the Roaches if I were going to take paid photos of climbers for work, but I couldn’t then pull on my shoes and have a potter myself if I were to follow the guidance.

You either have guidance/rules or you have a "make your own judgement" free for all. There are good reasons for having the former. And if you have the former, there are going to be inconsistencies.

The fact the guidance is just that, incorporates an element of ‘make your own judgement’ so I find that statement hard to reconcile.

Indeed. All travelling around creates risk of spread, the more travelling we do, the more we spread. It was decided that work travel was more important than leisure travel, therefore the latter should be stopped first when case numbers rise.

I personally don't much like working, so I put leisure above work in my little world. I can, however, see why the government decided that for the benefit of the nation we should make it the other way round. So I've followed the rules.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No.

Do you pay tax that you don't legally have to? I mean, why would you? If you've got surplus cash you could always donate it to a charity.

"Here Rishi, let me make this voluntary contribution to the treasury"

I think when large companies, who are making lots of money, seem to pay less tax than smaller companies who appear to be less successful, then I think something is wrong.

I appreciate the tax laws should prevent this but my point is that the law and my morals do not always align.

I've seen people leading at the roaches, I've seen people who are not local everytime I've been there. 

Difference is I just carried on doing my own thing and didn't start a thread on forum. 

And of course didn't post pictures of yourself or others on UKC, which was maybe the OP's point?

Well said.

There are far too many moral police here on UKC since last year.  I suspect that a touch of climbing jealously has caused a little overproduction in the sanctimonious glands.

I have become more touchy on this over the last year because I know more people who have died from COVID than I did a year ago.  

I have friends who are working in a variety of hospitals, who are pulling their hair out at some people not taking this seriously enough.

Understand the pain if you loose someone.  But you think 2 folks climbing, meters apart, and a third with a camera, even further away, is going to spread the virus?  I'd be much more concerned about going to the supermarket, not to mention public transport/xmas parties/protests etc.

I do get with your point.  

The thing for changed was when the government changed the guidance definition from vague to the less vague ‘village, town or part of city”.  The number of cases were shooting up.  It was obvious to me that behaviour had to change to bring things back under control.

While some people can go out climbing and keep things pretty safe (much safer than a trip to the supermarket, as you highlighted), it’s the signal that it sends out.  Loads of people are pushing the rules.  Too many, in my view.