UKH

Can you Name These Historical Climbers?

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 bethqwbu 14 Apr 2020

Hello!

I'm a first time poster, I'm making a passion project of an illustrated history of rock climbing and have reached 1914. Can anyone help me name the climbers in the photo linked? 

I have Stanley Jeffcoat on the far left and Siegfried Hereford on the far right, but apart from that I can't find the names to the others except John Laycock- which is he in the photo? and that one of them is called Thompson?

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/mountain-heritage-trust-showreel

Thank you so much in advance!

Beth.

1
 nigel baker 15 Apr 2020
In reply to bethqwbu:

According to the same photo in Peak Rock ....left to right 

Stanley Jeffcoat, John Leycock, A R Thompson, Siegfried Herford.

The back row both unknown!

hope this helps.

 Lankyman 15 Apr 2020
In reply to bethqwbu:

I don't know but the dog should be called Towser.

In reply to Lankyman:

Is that a scratch or a rope on the right?  If it's a rope I don't think much of Herford's belaying!

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Is that the start of the Scoop they're under?

I don't know who Thompson was. Not Laycock's chauffeur of Hen Cloud fame?

jcm

 elliptic 15 Apr 2020
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Yes it's the Scoop. There's another photo of Herford actually climbing it which was presumably taken the same day. I've seen them dated to 1910 which seems about right.

AR Thompson was a stalwart of the early FRCC and wrote the first Borrowdale and Buttermere guidebooks in the mid 1920s. Not to be confused with JM Archer Thomson who wrote the 1909 Lliwedd book!

That said - it's always struck me how much the figure credited as Thompson resembles Geoffrey Winthrop Young (eg. the cover shot on the Hankinson biography). I've never seen another photo of AR Thompson for comparison though.

Post edited at 12:07
 Myfyr Tomos 15 Apr 2020
In reply to bethqwbu:

In Keith Treacher's excellent book on Siegfried Herford, An Edwardian Rock-Climber, the photo caption (p66) implies it could be Sandiford back row right.

 overdrawnboy 15 Apr 2020
In reply to bethqwbu:

Dibble and Grubb.

2
In reply to nigel baker:

> According to the same photo in Peak Rock ....left to right 

> Stanley Jeffcoat, John Leycock, A R Thompson, Siegfried Herford.

That is not correct. Stanley Jeffcoat is second from left. 

 Myfyr Tomos 15 Apr 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Even though the Treacher book also has Jeffcoat on the extreme left, and then Laycock, I have to agree with Gordon, having just studied a photograph of Jeffcoat on Scoop Face.

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

When I did my Peak book I got hold of several pictures of Jeffcoat, and he's fairly unmistakable. I've got a theory now who L/H guy is ... will post soon.

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

I think the climber on the left may be G.S.Sansom. Samson, Jeffcoat, Laycock and Herford were great friends and climbed together. Here is a picture from George S. Sansom's Climbing at Wasdale before the First World War (1914), p. 36:

https://bit.ly/2VrzVg2

I have a maddening note on that page, saying the climber back right may be 'E. Pryor'. It has page ref to another book, but I can't decipher my own writing!

So I'm tentatively suggesting: Back: Unknown, Pryor; Front: Sansom, Jeffcoat, Laycock, Herford.

Post edited at 18:05
 Myfyr Tomos 15 Apr 2020
In reply to bethqwbu:

You could well be right Gordon - a distinct similarity.

Post edited at 18:11
 elliptic 15 Apr 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

That does look persuasive. Front row second right is much too old to be Laycock though, surely? He'd have been in his early twenties at that time, four years older than Herford.

(As I said above, it looks suspiciously like GWY to me!)

In reply to elliptic:

Yes, I have doubts about that being Laycock, because as you say he looks too old (but maybe it's the moustache that makes him look old?) Perhaps it's Laycock standing back right? I can't find a picture of Laycock anywhere.

Post edited at 18:30
 Myfyr Tomos 15 Apr 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

There is a photo of Herford leading Laycock on Bramley's Traverse at Cratcliffe, which may back you up there.   

Now how do I get this on here...

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

If you've scanned it you could email it to me, and I'll put it on my webspace with a link.

 elliptic 15 Apr 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

There seem to be a few photos of Laycock in later life in the Singapore national archives eg: 

https://www.nas.gov.sg/archivesonline/photographs/record-details/9e10be55-1162-11e3-83d5-0050568939ad

Not sure if they help much though!

In reply to elliptic:

Well, that's very interesting ... I think the guy on the front left could be Laycock, based on that. And that the guy third from left with the moustache is A R Thompson. So the Peak Rock caption just got the first two names the wrong way round.

 Lankyman 15 Apr 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

All we need now is the dog and job's a good'un.

In reply to Lankyman:

One minor correction. According to Laycock (in Some Gritstone Climbs), A.R. Thomson is spelt without a p.

 Myfyr Tomos 15 Apr 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Sorry, but unable to attach photo in UKC email... have sent message anyway.

 Lankyman 16 Apr 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Is that a scratch or a rope on the right?  If it's a rope I don't think much of Herford's belaying!


Could be an 8.5 mm (skinny half hemp)? Maybe he was texting a mate while they got the selfie. The youth of yesterday ....


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