UKH

The premier league and EFL are in a scramble to finish off the season, making the argument that they need the cash.  Now lots of other sectors of industry are in dire straits too, so why football.

A few continental leagues have cancelled the season, Germany looking an exception for now.  We have the chief medic for FIFA saying we shouldn’t be restarting.  The Liverpool mayor making a sensible safety case that the season should be halted and Liverpool awarded the championship.  He argued that even if games are played at neutral venues there would be large crowds congregating at Anfield (he has a point) when Liverpool get the 6 points they need.  Apparently some premiership players and other club officials are, rightly, worried about their and their loved ones safety.

I’ve no axe to grind, as a Notts Forrest fan, I might like the season to be concluded but I’m not that bothered.  However, it appears to me that there is a head of steam, largely financial, for the premier league, in particular, to restart.  Why is football so special.

In reply to kipper12:

Because it's so profitable?

In reply to kipper12:

Democracy. Will of the people.

Or bread and games if you think from a dictatorial perspective

In reply to kipper12:

It isn't.

The bread and circuses argument may have a point, though... Pasta and football...?

In reply to kipper12:

Money, power, bread & circuses. 

In reply to Heartinthe highlands:

The sequel to the game of thrones perhaps

In reply to kipper12:

Why are Greggs, KFC and McDonalds all planning to reopen? They’re clearly not essential and can be done without for a few more months? It’s business, it’s people’s livelihoods. There’s more to football than just the players, hundreds, thousands down the chain. All businesses are planning for reopening, it’s just football is one of the more prominent.

In reply to HansStuttgart:

It didn't usually end well for Roman emperors who kept the plebs compliant with bread and circuses......

In reply to kipper12:

Because it’s a massive foreign currency earner? I actually think we need to look at restarting any major export industries that we can. The economy is absolutely smashed, and we should look at any industry that can be restarted with minimal impact on R0. I don’t know if football meets that criteria, but you probably need less than 200 people in a stadium, 40-50 of them in close proximity, and every premier league game is worth about £30m in overseas tv rights. You else boost the betting industry, and maybe the drinks industry if you consider those positive

edit: got the numbers very wrong, but it’s still about £400m in foreign tv rights for the rest of the season, before considering any other sponsorship etc. 

In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Takeaways have ALWAYS been allowed to be open.

In reply to kipper12:

"Why should football be a special case?" It shouldn't. Next.

In reply to kipper12:

There's no chance they'll finiish this season in time for the next one. It's also unlikely that they'll be time to complete the whole of next season. It seems a bit stupid just cancelling this season now when football might not start until early next year and it might be better finishing it then otherwise they'll be no football until August 2021. Best to figure out a plan when they have a realistic start date. I can't see testing all the players before games working anyway, all it takes is one player testing positive and their whole team + whoever they've just played will have to self isolate for 2 weeks.

They're just a bit desperate as if they don't finish a season teams will start legal action no matter how they try settle it for huge sums of money. Lille are already beginning legal action in france due to missing out on Europe, and one of the teams relegated is considering it. The same would happen here if they settled the season the way france have with villa putting in legal action, especially as they have a game in hand and if the season is voided completely leeds/ west brom will do the same.

Basically it's a mess with no sensible solution. 

In reply to kipper12:

I don't think football's special. Its return has to weigh risk and reward to the same extent as everything else. I'm not a fan myself but it seems to me that football's high profile does weigh heavily on the reward side of the scale. Both economically and in terms of morale for a lot of fans.

In reply to kipper12:

I’ve never heard any argument that soccer should be a special case. Just how they can finish the league off safely. I think many would love the return of live sport. I’m not sure it can happen though.

In reply to Robert Durran:

An Asterix and Obelix parody with Johnson as Roman emperor would be fun

In reply to Davidlees215:

I agree, there’s is no sensible solution 

In reply to kipper12:

I thought it was Nottingham Forest and Notts County.

In reply to kipper12:

Apparently it'll boost all are morale

In reply to Oceanrower:

Just examples. I saw that the Assoc of British Climbing walls were posting their musings on reopening the other day. Seriously? We can do without indoor climbing for a long time yet. I’m sure all major retailers will be planning. I’m sure all small retailers will be planning. I’m sure golf, snooker, rugby and cricket are all planning. But they don’t generate the interest to the same degree, is all.

In reply to kipper12:

It would cost a fortune if one of the players caught it and ended up with scarred lungs or some other Covid side effect that ended their playing career.   That is a big financial risk to weigh against the earnings from TV.

If fans are likely to congregate to watch it or celebrate then it is a no-brainer, shouldn't be allowed to restart until infection rates are a lot lower.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

I think this is the point raised by the Liverpool mayor,  which is why he prefers  simply to award Liverpool the title.  

In reply to kipper12:

If it stops them trying to recycle endless match of the day drivel without point or purpose, then yes treat it as a special case. Not sure how though.

In reply to kipper12:

Agree. Football should not be a special case and the suggestions for restarting, even behind closed doors, seems ridiculous - though it could be an interesting game that maintains social distancing, a bit Monty Python like.

Fortunately, a number of player have expressed concern about the risk of spreading the disease to their families, so hopefully sense will prevail. 

I can understand clubs who are on the cusp of promotion or those who are trying to get away from relegation wanting it to restart.

How about finishing the rest of the games of this season behind closed doors but as penalty shoot outs? It would maintain social distancing and at least in some way the remaining games would have been 'played' and perhaps it would be more acceptable than ending the season now.

Dave 

In reply to kipper12:

Get them to play all remaining games dressed in full PPE with fireman type breathing apparatus.....

One of the biggest ‘problems’ is the transfer of players, that’s a key reason why clubs want to end the season.  My plan: no teams get relegated, only play those games that effect promotion, league winners, euro places. All teams to isolate with regular checks. All games behind closed doors. Next three seasons 4 teams get relegated. Start next season later, extend summer transfer window.

In reply to kipper12:

To all: Instead of relying on the tabloid chit chat, here it is from the horses mouth. Crystal Palace chairman statement:

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2020/may/chairman-steve-parish-premier-league-p...

In reply to mick taylor:

Having promotion but not relegation would be a terrible idea and would ruin the integrity of the competition for years to come.

If you are completing the season, you have to complete the season, with no exceptions. This weird halfway house of sort of but not really completing a season would be worse than fully completing a season, worse than saying the season is over and current standings are final, and would even be worse than just ripping up this season's results and pretending it never happened.

Some of the negative consequences of partially completing the season:

1) Increases the number of games in future seasons. There is already a struggle to fit in all the games they play in a regular season. With next season likely to be condensed in to a shorter timeframe, this would get even worse.

2) Finances. How do you compensate the Championship clubs who now play fewer games for the next few seasons? They now have fewer televised games, lower gate receipts, fewer home games to sell merchandise, refreshments etc. Why should their finances suffer just so some of their rival clubs get a break from relegation and get a free season in the Premier League? This would be guaranteed to end up in expensive court cases, potentially delaying future seasons, unless a substantial compensation package is agreed for the championship clubs. Are you also going to compensate the TV rights owners now they have fewer games and now that the Championship will be weaker overall without the relegated teams coming down?

3) It ruins the integrity of the current season. If only positive outcomes (league titles, Europe, promotion etc) happen without the negative risks of relegation, suddenly a huge chunk of the league has nothing to play for. Their sole aim becomes to prepare for next season, not to try their best for any games this season. This creates a very uneven playing field. A team who has a lot of fixtures left to play against teams who have nothing to play for would be at a huge advantage. They will end up playing most of their games against kids/reserves. What if losing a game heavily would harm a team's local rival? Suddenly losing a game 6-0 doesn't seem so bad if it stops your rival from going up or qualifying for Europe.

3) b) Imagine a player in the final year of their contract. If they play x number of games this season, their contract automatically renews (a common clause for older players on high wages). How likely are the club to play them if there is nothing to play for? Time for more expensive court cases as the players sue the club and the league for loss of their livelihood.

I could go on and on.

The problem with the whole situation is that everybody has skin in the game. Teams at the bottom are going to push hard for a solution that reduces their chance of relegation. Their is no perfect solution but partially completing the season is the worst available option.

In reply to kipper12:

From what is said in the various Daily papers it might be thought that Footballers have A Great Deal of Sex All the Time and therefore perhaps it would help the ailing condom industry?

In reply to kipper12:

When viewed as "the opiate of the masses" it shouldn't.  When viewed simply as a business it should be treated liked any other business.

Al

In reply to SDM:

I agree there are problems and I didn’t go into full detail in my post. My preference would be to complete the league, but that may not be possible. There are talks of some players wanting to change clubs and this could only happen after the league has ended, which may be too late.

Re: too many games. Tough, fans deserve a few extra and ditch the league cup.

Dont get your point 2) at all.  Prem league would have 24 teams, other leagues would have about the same number with an extra team being relegated each season.

Messy, yes, but could work.

What do you think could work?

In reply to kipper12:

Football is special as it's football and it's the national game, like it or not.  Restarting the season again is a step back towards some sort of normality and as such a fairly major step for the national psyche.  You don't need to treat it as a special case - B and Q is open - is that special?

There's 8,9 games? I'd just compress the season, try for two games a week behind closed doors and I don't even see why you need neutral grounds.  There ain't gonna be no internationals or champions, europa league for a while so that should help.

In reply to kipper12:

I have a fantastic idea. Declare Liverpool the winners and leave it at that. Nobody goes up and nobody goes down in any league.

Just write the season off and start the ball rolling again when its safe to do so. To be truthful, I could not care less about football.

In reply to kipper12:

Halt it immediately. Cancel the whole thing. 100% best course of action.  Us Everton fans are a compassionate bunch. We think it's only fair that the league gets ended without awarding anyone the trophy. Safety first always. 

The UFC is on next weekend so that will make up for the lack of football 😁

In reply to The Lemming:

I am not a Liverpool fan but I agree. Make Liverpool the deserving champions they have proved to be this season and scrap the rest of the season.  I am not sure the players want to finish the season. Surely even Everton and Man Utd fans would agree to that!

In reply to kipper12:

Also probably a good chance of not insignificant 'civil unrest' in a few cities depending on what the outcome was and how it was awarded. Good chance of a few scenes in Liverpool and Leeds if season was abandoned I would guess.

In reply to The Lemming:

A ridiculous idea, so bad I can't even be arsed to explain why! 

In reply to Blunderbuss:

Please, I insist, don't.

In reply to mick taylor:

I think in order of preference/workability:

1) Finish all leagues, regardless of how long this takes. This is the fairest way and causes the least disruption. Promotion and relegation still go ahead, based on a full season of results. Should make it fairly easy to deny any appeals and get things back to "normal" as quickly as possible. Then assess whether or not it is feasible for the 2020-2021 season to go ahead. If we end this season early, there is a good chance there still won't be enough time for next season to go ahead as normal anyway.

2) End the season now, current standings are final. Prepare to be sued by every relegated club and everyone who just missed out on Europe or promotion (does 3rd place go up via the playoffs? Or do the playoff teams draw lots?) and for all of these cases to go to CAS with many appeals before getting resolved. There is too much money involved for this not to end up in the courts. They won't be resolved before next season starts so I have no idea what happens to next season.

3) Cancel the season, it never happened. Prepare to be sued by Liverpool, Leeds etc.

4) Some bizarre combination of finishing but not really finishing the league: resolving nothing, ensuring that the disruption continues for years to come, and still get sued by everyone who got disadvantaged.

Option 1 is the only way I can see that allows any closure or certainty for future seasons.

In reply to SDM:

Completely agree. Some sort of truncated 20/21 season could be cobbled together following the eventual conclusion of the current season whatever the time constraints and at least all the participants would feel that fairness had been observed. Why not a 19 game Premiership where you play each opponent once, 9 home games, 9 away, drawn by lots, and 1 at Wembley for the biggest derby?

In reply to BnB:

There would be plenty of options for how to truncate next season, depending on how much time is left.

Maybe you truncate the league. Maybe you have a full league but no cups. In a worst case, maybe you have a cup but no leagues if the delay is really long.

The important thing is that this can all be agreed before the season begins so everybody knows where they stand. This should include an agreed procedure for how to end things early should there be a second shutdown.

Far easier to get everyone to sign up to these things before the season begins rather than when we already know who will be advantaged or disadvantaged.

In reply to kipper12:

How about the outstanding games are decided by the Pools Panel...?

If such a thing still exists...

Just like school exam results will be based on work to date.

In reply to kipper12:

There seems to be a myth that all non-essential businesses have been asked to close during lockdown.  They have not.  Those that have closed have chosen to close. 

Thus there is nothing "special" about football if it re-starts.  All businesses should be trying hard to re-start as soon and as safely as possible.  We need them! 

In reply to kipper12:

Personally I'm gutted that the season will probably end as it is - Liverpool being crowned champions and the mighty Blades finishing 7th (Above Spurs and the Arse haha). I'd love to see the Reds win it, but I honestly think we would have finished higher.

However not as gutted as Bournemouth and Villa fans (sorry Norwich, you're down). Brighton, West Sham and Watford will all argue for the season to end as it stands, with AV, AFCB and the loudest shouters coming from Delia's mob, arguing that the season should be cancelled.

As for it being deemed a special case, nah, just look around, airline company owners (Branson, I spit in your general direction) actually want a bail out. F*ck that. End the season, call it as it is and we'll all start again next season.

In reply to kipper12:

thats almost worse than the calling the Peak the Peaks! Cloughie won’t be happy....

In reply to wbo2:

Read what the Liverpool, mayor and the uefa medical head have said.  It may make you think differently 

In reply to Mike-Lea:

He most certainly wouldn’t.  

In reply to The Lemming:

Liverpool as champions isn't that big a deal (outside of Liverpool fans obviously - they've had a 30 year wait), but financially promotion and relegation are huge.

Even European qualification isn't the be all and end all to clubs like United and Chelsea. But clubs could disappear. Look at Barrow.

I think it's got to be finished somehow. I'd compress the season but play shorter games (60 minutes).

In reply to kipper12:  I have read what the mayor of Liverpool has said and I don't agree to be honest.  If you end the season now and they win, or if the finish behind close doors and win... not much difference I guess with people deciding to meet.  Obviously there won't be a bus . party et al..

The UEFA chief medical officer says he thinks it's going to be possible to restart seasons at some point?

In reply to kipper12:

Their only motivation for starting is because of their crazy salaries clubs can't afford to refund the tv rights money back to broadcasters. 

It's got nothing to do with league winners, demotion, or the fans. 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Would it be possible to just play those games which could determine relegation from the PL (so only those teams not mathematically safe play all their remaining games) the non-relational teams have their positions fixed - well done Liverpool. 

Then look at something similar for the lower leagues (more complex because of promotion)

In reply to SDM:

I prefer option 1, but I reckon clubs, agents and mega rich players, uefa etc will push for the league positions to be settled so that clubs know who is in what euro leagues and players can be transferred. My guess is that at some point a deadline will be set for sorting league positions and our leagues will simply have to find a way of doing this.