UKH

Looking for recommendations from the hivemind on suitable dog breeds for the following criteria:

- Live in a flat, so nothing massive (small to medium size at a push)

- Something that can get up a munro comfortably, and is good off the lead but doesnt need massive amounts of exercise every day. I am a keen trail runner so it would be nice for the dog to be able to run with me, but this wouldnt be an every day thing

- Preferably something that doesnt shed loads 

Girlfriend has had viszlas before which are quite well suited apart from the prey drive although perhaps a bit large for the flat. We would be looking to adopt so our options may be limited but it would be good to get some opinions!

Get down the local animal rescue centre and check out the mutts. They'll love you just as much as any 'breed'.

If you live in a flat, something quiet

Cockapoo? Medium size, doesn't shed, mine doesn't bark, needs company but not too neurotic, once fully grown can cover some ground, but doesn't go crazy if it doesn't do 20 miles a day..... Good with kids, affectionate etc.

Im not sure where I implied I wanted a specific breed? Helps to read the post before you judge =) 

Also Garethza: "Looking for recommendations from the hivemind on suitable dog breeds"

No further comment m'lud

Edit: spelling

Genuine query: there are millions of these dogs everywhere and they have appeared very suddenly. Where are they coming from? I fear a great many are originating in puppy farms. I know that various dogs go through waves of popularity (staffies, huskies, now German Shepherds seem to be having a resurgence) but the sudden ubiquity of cockapoos makes me suspicious.

That's just virtue-signalling pedantry. What should the OP have said instead? "Dog types"? 

UKC Pedants strike again.. 

Okay so how do you refer to a type of dog then? Black, White? Tall, Short? The barky one? Maybe its a British thing that breed implies thoroughbred, in which case I am not sure what the correct terminology is for a type of dog in this country?? 

I would think something collie-sized would be ideal - bigger dogs are heavier on their joints which can lead to arthritis in their later years. Also, not being too heavy means you can pick them easily when negotiating cattle-grids, styles and the likes. We really struggled negotiating the stone styles in the Dales with our Labrador who was too wide to get through them and at 32kg, a bit heavy to lift over. Prey drive and general obedience is as much down your training and handling - getting your dog to think you're more exciting than any furry or feathery things. 

Currently, we have a very energetic Labrador retriever - she's slightly on the smaller size at 25kg, but she is solid muscle, can easily cope with 20 miles but she is very high energy and needs an hour a day exercise minimum - I'm not sure having a dog trained to go running is compatible with leaving them all day.  

Breeds is fine. But having asked for advice on breeds, don't say you didn't ask for advice on breeds and snarkily remind the poster to read the OP. Where you asked for advice on breeds.

It'll be tough in a flat. As said you don't want a barker. I think it'll be more the dog than a type. A lab cross are generally calmer, not that barky - of course individual dogs will differ. Crossing with something like a collie will make it smaller. My lab thing is 65-70lbs, not huge but probably on the bigger side to what you want. He's lab x hound, he will bark but generally to specific events.

<launches hand grenade>

Mike Berners-Lee estimated the carbon footprint of a dog per year to be .75 tonnes of Co2 for an average sized dog and as high as 2.5 tonnes per year for a large dog.  Average UK personal CO2 footprint is 12.5 tonnes though so much higher.  The question perhaps should be more about whether or not getting a dog is a responsible thing to do at all, rather than "what type".

<runs away>

I'll leave you all to argue about that one.

<lurks with a bag of popcorn>

We have a mongrel that people refer to as a Poochon (I refuse to call it that)

He is half toy poodle and half Bichon Frieze.

He is obedient, doesn't shed at all, quiet (unless someone comes in to his space), loves to run and run but also loves to snuggle up on the sofa with you. 

Thank god someone sees them for what they are - Heinz 57 or "suspired mum".

Jeezus wept! You asked for BREED - means you want UKC to recommend a particular named, standard type of dog.  If you're not fussed about a 'thoroughbred' then say so, not ask about a BREED. Get down the dog home and look for suitable dogs  - ie ones that aren't too big for your flat, don't bark too much or shed hair or whatever you require from a dog.

A friend feeds her dogs on something more sustainable than the dog food bought in tins and packets from supermarkets, something offal related IIRC.

Technically speaking, if somebody asks about dog breeds, people are going to take it as them wanting to know about breeds. Maybe I'm pedantic too, but that's what I understood the OP to be asking about.

Border terrier, ticks the box for smaller dog and will run in the hills. 

But that's a BREED and he doesn't want a BREED. Please keep up.

I don't know. I'm not a 'dog person'. My wife is and sourced ours from a reputable, registered breeder half way across the country. Fully vaccinated, supplied with a personalised 'handbook' and on-hand for ongoing advice etc. I dare say not all are quite so fastidious, traceable, or for that matter, bloody expensive....

This seems like UKC at it's finest. Nit picking on terminology and not letting it go. 

The term "breed" was used, I guess generally. The guy wants recommendations of dogs which might fit his requirements and says he wants to adopt one which might make things harder. 

It sounds like he's open to any type of dog that would fit into his lifestyle. Saying go and get a mutt that will love you is all well and good, but it doesn't answer the question which, if you're not being pedantic, is really clear. 

Only if you are being deliberately awkward, I think most people understand the question. 

For the pedants

You need a small , quite fit, not too hairy dog that likes living in a flat 

The half sausage, half chihuahua I live with right now ticks almost none of your boxes but I'm actually a big fan of this strange little dog. 

Get one. 

I feed mine on children, the carbon offset is absolutely massive...

On a serious note, get down to the rescue centre and give them the requirements, I’m pretty sure they'll have something suitable.

Alternatively spend £300 to several grand on a "pedigree" or "designer" dog that could well be a timebomb of genetic, medical and behavioural problems due to inbreeding.

There may well be responsible breeders, but puppy farming is a massive criminal enterprise using stolen dogs and forged KC registrations (not that they need to, the KC are happy to hand out documents to dogs with wonky hips and undershot jaws that are just ready to go berserk when their brain gets too big for their skull, as long as they get the fee for the papers). Even the non-criminal breeders farming puppies in a shed in the garden won't be too fussy about animal welfare.

Anyway, there'll be a few hundred thousand cavapoos and chalkies dumped once lockdown finishes, that should crash the market.

Edit: Not having a go at the OP, but the whole unscrupulous business of churning out millions of overpriced, abused mutts to people who don't have the first idea about how to look after them ir control them just boils my piss.

I always wanted a friend's bearded collie cross and another friend's dalmatian to have puppies, out of curiosity at what they'd look like, and I thought they seemed different enough that they'd be healthy.

If you want to take it out into the hills then get a dog with a suitable coat.  We have a cavapoo and a cockerpoo.  The latter could run the legs off anything, but weather-resistant it is not - at the end of an hour on dew-covered grass he is soaked.  Before those we had a Border Terrier, which was essentially waterproof.  A long-legged one of those would do, but for any 'breed' or *poo pup you are going to have to spend a lot now.  Get down to the recue centre and get a dog with a weatherproof coat, decent legs and proportions and a proper shaped head.  Rule 1 of buying a dog - buy a 'dog-shaped dog', not some inbred thing that can't breathe or jump without dislocating its hips

I spent $600 on a mixed bred rescue which rolls in shit.. I was robbed.

As well as the 2 dogs, 1 cat (left, had 4) we have 4 house rabbits. Ignore everything you have ever read about the cleanliness of rabbits. They are very cute and intelligent but they are also dirty, destructive and prone to a million illnesses, most of which can quickly be fatal. 

Springer / Sprocker spaniel would be about right, needs a fair bit of exercise daily but not hours.

I've a Sprocker who's 8 and a half now, he still has way more energy than me on any walk, medium sized at 20kg, fairly quiet, happy enough on his own when I'm out at work.

But they're absolute nutters when young, calm down around 4-5 years old.

Ours did. Both of them in less than 3 weeks. My kids were distraught. 

They tend to hide injuries/illness for as long as possible since its not overly good for a prey animal to appear to be the weak one in a group.  That their digestive system is prone to failure if they stop eating for even a shortish period of time makes them somewhat vulnerable.

Same. Unfortunately it’s a pretty impossible question to ask without using the word “breed” then qualifying it to mean “not actually breed”.

“Breed or mix of breeds” might have worked.

Plus a parasite that affects their brain. We knew nothing about that until one of them started fitting. Fortunately one wallet emptying trip to the emergency vet on a Sunday night got her sorted out. 

I'd be concerned that a terrier might bark too much for a flat.

I have a Bedlington terrier cross and he never shuts up!!

Our Border rarely barks.

You are so lucky!!

Get one of these. She’s a Lurchermann Pinscher, or a Durcher or a mongrel or something. Anyway, she’s ace.

As to your specifications, yeah you should get something that broadly fits your profile but the most important thing is that you can still love her even after she’s crapped on the cat, eaten your shoes and stolen the steak you’ve been looking forward to all day.

Maybe if you find out what’s making him cross he’d quieten down?

No. You asked about a breed. And then said you didn't want a breed. Why don't you just learn to express yourself clearly?

Schnauzer.

What a cracking looking hound!

Want to swap her for a Great Danish Amstaffhound?

That would get you a collimation, which I think is something to do with telescopes.

Good post. My Border was a mean beast and wouldn’t have coped well with a flat or irregular walks. It needed 5 miles a day at least and easily coped with scrambles. There’s some fine tales in old books of them going missing in Northumberland and turning up somewhere 40 miles away next day.

Their coats are amazing, like an otters, but never get them clipped you need to hand strip them.

Border Terriers are not for the faint hearted.

A friends family had one when I was a kid. I remember us spending several days cycling around searching for the little sod when it got bored and went on an expedition

That said owner of the local beer shop used to have one which spent most of its day snoozing before coming out to have a sniff at any bags left in range to see if there was any food to nick.

Everybody got your point the first time you posted it. You don't need to keep repeating it. 

Chih-polata? 

Thanks

No! But I may have a second hand wife or a couple of slightly manky kids to swap if you’re interested?

A Border Terrier crossed with something more placid and longer legged could be a good hill dog.

You obviously have a problem reading what has been written, I never mentioned wanting a breed, I just recommended getting a Border terrier as they are a great little dog, in my opinion. 

I think Lankyman is accusing you of being the OP posting under a different account!

😳

My brother in law was in the process of emptying the dishwasher before sorting his new pups breakfast, turned round and saw this...

It's the local magpie sitting on the garden wall flipping him off! 

A dog which doesn’t need much exercise but can get up Munros comfortably is likely to be a contraction 

rescue dogs are great. But they often come with issues that need time, care and patience to overcome.

we’ve had a number of rescue English Springer Spaniels which have been brilliant, but often with a fair amount of rehabilitation 

and being "good off the lead" is an attribute gained by training during regular exercise rather than an attribute of any particular breed, especially if any sheep graze on your chosen Munro

A breed that was originally developed as a working dog of some kind is more likely to be able to be all day energetic. Smaller breeds include the terriers (some of those like patterdale, airedale, etc are medium, so don't assume they are all jack russells). But... careful what you wish for... the more Munro-capable the dog the more walking it'll need daily.

Your ideal dog (if you don't have young kids) might be a dog that wanted to be a sheep dog when it grew up but "failed its exams". Look out for farmers advertising a very young working dog (not puppy)  relatively cheap. Then be prepared to do a LOT of walking with it

Get a small dog, great in the hills, easy to lift over stiles and fences and easy to carry out if over tired or injured. Full body, ruff wear type harnesses with a grab handle on the back make things easy.

I agree that a dog that doesn't necessarily need lots of exercise on a regular basis does not quite marry up with the same dog heading up the Munros with you. You probably have to aim one way or the other. Certainly if you don't do much exercise with your dog, and then go off up the hills with it, without much preamble, this is likely to cause more in the way of joint problems, as the lack of developed muscles will not support the joints.

If you do get an actual breed, then the KC's Assured breeder scheme goes part-way towards a more responsible breeding background.

Sadly, I see pedigree dogs that have not come from backgrounds where the parent dogs have been tested for hereditary eye disease, and hip and elbow scored, also for hereditary problems of elbow and hip dysplasia. The problem is then of the need for cataract surgery, hip treatments, how to habituate the dog with retinal degeneration to gradually becoming blind, etc, etc.

If you look at the recommendation of "Schnauzer", then be aware that the less common standard sized Schnauzer, is generally acknowledged to be a more difficult dog to get on with and train. The miniature version generally can be a great dog for the flat, but some do bark more than others. I think that one modest Munro with the right version of one of these would be alright, but not sure about doing the five sisters etc. I have no personal experience on this score.

Aim for a medium sized sized dog, and engage friends and dog-walkers to do the exercise that you cannot provide during the week, and then try moderate hill walking with care?

Why do you feel the need to butt in with your smart@rse comments?

Apologies if I accused you of being the OP

I would tend to go for a breed, as then you will know what your are getting as you do seem to have some specifics, with a Hybrid/Mongrel/Type, you never really know until they get older what you are getting. 
I have never had one, but how about a Poodle, I think they are originally a hunting dog, so I assume they can cope with exercise, but also cope well with house life, and I think they are nice looking dogs, and pretty cool. Maybe research them, as I say I have never had one and its just a thought

I have a Fell terrier, which is the best dog I have ever had, and I would say this is definitely not for you as they need a huge amount of exercise.

My partner acquired a puppy minituate schnauzzer last summer as her daughter wasn't prepared for the care needed. 

It's a lovely, social, happy dog that barks with the sheer joy of being alive..

It also soaks up 3*45min walks a day no problem  and has a very low boredom threshold, shredding anything paper or card. God help the state of a flat if it was left to it own devices all day!!

It's just coming up to a year old so we'll be out doing 'proper' walks with it soon 

How about getting a cat? 

Because you are being tiresome 

Another vote for heading to the rescue centre , tell them what you want and they will find you the right dog for you.

Dog breeding is not regulated and often cruel and churning out dogs with loads of health issues. 

We've had a selection of rescues (Jack Russell Cross, Staffy Cross and now two Romanian rescues which look like corgi mixed with who knows what). All are capable of and enjoy long walks up hills......days on the sofa.....and we live in a flat. 

I also must add that although some rescue dogs come with issues many don't and this is something the rescues should know before they match you with a dog. 

Good luck with it all, dogs are the best

Well it takes a tiresome t1t to know one so I won't rise to your level

I have seen a cat walking on the hill - Lingmoor Fell to be exact. It was on a lead. I suspect my cats would have staged sit down protests all day.

Good idea. Bye!

We have a retired greyhound that we've managed to take for a few longer hill walks (up to 4h), but I don't think she'd be that keen on a Munro or longer day out - maybe we'll see this summer.  A lurcher, or a bigger whippet-type thing might well be suitable, I've seen/know of these to be good fell hounds!

Our Greyhound doesn't require much effort on a day-to-day basis, a couple of 20 minute walks (though she has been known to refuse on the drive when she's bored of the same old same old), she's quite happy on the sofa or basking in the sun by the window when we're out at work. A trip to somewhere more interesting and she walks much better. Watching her zoom at full flight on the beach is very impressive and she likes making friends with other dogs of all sizes, though sometimes their owners are less keen as greyhounds have an (incorrect) rep as being vicious (probably coursing/racing related) - though again this depends on the dog and ours is a softy. On the hill she's always on a short lead as she would chase, but when we walk her in an (animal free) wood off the lead she always stays close and recall is good (though again this is dog dependent. She's a smart cookie).

She's very affectionate and playful with my other half and is getting better with me (she's my first dog so I'm a bit awkward still, and maybe she had a bad experience with men in the past - the trainer we got her from was lovely but you never know what happens at tracks.)

She's quite a small hound (25kg). My partner's sister has a bigger greyhound (32kg) that is fine in a smallish flat. We started leaving ours at home early on so there's no separation anxiety and she learnt how to live in a house quite quickly (as did we in how to live with a dog whose nose is at table/counter height!) She barks when men  (including me)come to the door and my partner is at home, but quietens quickly and is actually quite useful as a doorbell!

We initially thought we'd get a dog we could run on the hills with, but bad experiences for my partner of her Springer fecking off after deer/pheasant smells, and not wanting to commit to the exercise of a Collie/leaving them home for a lot of the day, led us to a dog that can walk but is happy to laze about on its own. 

I’m sure you’ll find something suitable, I’ve seen all sorts of dogs in the hills. My parents uncle had the least outdoorsy looking dog ever, a slightly overweight King Charles spaniel, but he used to take that little thing up the Mournes every weekend and it never struggled.

We have a staffie, great for not needing too much exercise (about an hour a day), and not shedding, and not being too Barky but not sure she’d make the best hill walking dog as she’s rather clumsy on her feet, has a strong prey drive, and hates the rain.

Wouldn’t recommend a cocker spaniel on similar in a flat, they have a lot of energy, need constant interaction and are utterly bonkers for the first few years... Ideally you need a large house with lots of children so they can tire each other out! 

I was enjoying this thread too. You are a dick. Go away.

If you want something like a Springer but a little more manageable, a working cocker is about ideal. Proper sized, not bred into oblivion, balances energy with the ability to live in smaller spaces. 

My last dog was a whippet/collie cross rehomed.

The collie half - took her for first long run, Edale skyline reccy, first thing she did when I got back to the car exhausted was to look for a stick to throw....

The whippet half means though that getting her off the sofa to go out for a walk was also problematic at times....

I think this is bit of an urban myth thats sprung up around rescues.

Yes there are 'problem dogs' (which we seem to bring home after finding no one wants them..).

However the vast majority are perfectly sound dogs who just need a bit of work to get over been yelled at and then dumped by their previous owners (who didn't realise dogs don't come preloaded with the latest operating system, and you might just have to put a tiny bit of work into training them, rather than just buying it a burberry jacket and expecting it know what to do).

I'd agree (based on my spaniel biased experience of dogs) but if also say....

Our cocker is 8 months now and I'd say if it won't get massive amounts of walks each day then make sure there's plenty of other play/scent Training time as well. Ours really has an instinct to work at the moment.

We do around 1-2 hours of walking a day with him depening on how busy a week he's had. The more walking means more sleeping, which means less time training. But we still need to dedicate time to him a lot during the day too. My work hours have been very strange since we got him.

I'd estimate that at the moment he takes about 4 hours out of my day.

This takes into account needing to train him whilst emptying the dishwasher/making breakfast/dinner to make sure he doesn't terrorise us every day, training him to be left alone for spells during the day, multiple play sessions during the day, morning, lunch and evening walk. Specific training sessions (short lead walks, scent work, etc.). Generally making things take longer / dealing with zoomies/tantrums etc. Training with prey drive (socialising with sheep etc.)

I think in another year this burden will drop a lot, but I'm surprised just how much time and energy it has taken.

Getting an older one would mean a lot of this wouldn't be needed (unless it had other problems), but from looking after older ones as well they still are quite a time/energy drain whilst working.

This has all been rather insightful, thanks for all the replies. I will report back once we have adopted a dog and let you know what we got! 

A working (as opposed to show) springer spaniel needs at least 2 hours exercise a day. Our 2 are 6 now and still need that.

If you live in a flat, a chihuahua. That's where it'll be most of the time. If you want a dog to run with, borrow one. But keep it on a lead. There are dogs everywhere and they are having a terrible impact on wildlife. 

... will run away in the hills. Believe me I know 😕

😁Maybe I've been lucky then, or all the time I spent training her when she was a puppy has paid off.🤔

I have to admit to a measure of incompetence and  unreasonably high expectations. 

I'm on my 3rd Border Terrier.

All good dogs, hardy, good playful temperaments, none have cost me anything at the vets.

Had 2 bitches, both sweet natured and not too terrier like. The male a bit more feisty but nothing different to other dogs and nothing like as up for it as my mates Jack Russel!

None of them have barked....the one I have now is old and a bit confused so barks occasionally when in the garden.

Only 1 downside to them is that they are ridiculously expensive now....seen some puppies advertised for £2k!!

My brother in law was in the process of emptying the dishwasher before sorting his new pups breakfast, turned round and saw this...

We used to have a chocolate Labrador that loved the dishwasher. What was remarkable was that if you opened the dishwasher to start loading it, she'd be there in a shot, licking the plates. However, if you opened the dishwasher to unload it, she'd be nowhere to be seen.

He's not a dick. His first point about breeds was met with a snide response about reading the thread more carefully. Reading the thread more carefully brings the reader  back to a query about breeds.

And if he's a dick his earlier comments got a lot of support so where does that leave his critics?

Same applies to Andy Hardy. Sensible comments about a poorly worded question ( which would not have normally been regarded as poorly worded but for the fact that  the poster got  arsey about people's replies to his question and drew closer attention to the wording of it)

Apparently, the official term is 'Chiweenie' 

Yeah. I thought the same! 

Yours is better!!

How do you expect to get any viable feedback on the likely characteristics a dog will have based on forefilling your criteria (other than size which may be hard to tell if they are young) unless you are going by breed. Mongrels or even cross breeds are just that and the best you can guess is from their parents breeds, which in many cases will be unknown and or an unreliable guess in any case.

We have a Heinz 57 which we rehomed. He's a medium brown dog! Tough as old boots, can chill out at home no bother. We run him canicross several times a week (he can't be off lead), and he loves a good hill day. The off lead thing doesn't need to be a deal breaker (many rescues will be harder to train to be reliable off lead just because you get them with habits established), ours has a fab life on the lead. 

I think you should get a medium brown dog! 😃

My Sprocker gets half an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon / early evening, I guess I don't think of it as being out for hours. It's mostly off lead which helps as he can have a bit of a tear around and get his exercise that way.

i think the wording you were looking for was, what sort of dog😂😂😂

But this is trivial, the question we’re all secretly thinking now is when are you getting married and having a baby? Partner (tick)...Dog....Baby!

If my attempt at being funny is off just an F.O as if we were in the pub I won’t be offended.

So...

😉 Toby

Apart from the obvious natural benefits from “working” breeds or types of dogs in the hills, most dogs that are well exercised, trained and loved will be a worthy companion. 
as a dog Walker who spends a lot of time with many different breeds of dogs I have dealt with many “working breeds” that through poor socialisation, exercise and training I would not want to take in to the hills with me.

my experience has taught me that it is the dog (and owner) not the breed that makes the difference. 

Maybe just me, but I get a bit uncomfortable at the thought of having a dog in a flat.

Do you have direct access to a garden as well, or will it it be out with you in the day.

If the intention is a couple of walks a day and a bit running at the weekends, then maybe an alternative pet that's more suited to being shut indoors most of its life. 

Valid point.

A running friend has 2 very different dogs that she alternates between taking out running with her, via the  Borrowmydoggy website. I works brilliantly for her, the dogs and the owners.

My first dog  (as an adult) was the most expensive dog I ever bought, because after 6 months in a rented flat, we realised we needed a house!!

Having said that, we were actually fine in a flat because I was working with the dog, so most of the time all any of us did in the flat was eat and sleep. 

Also a more general point. The best dog is always the dog you've got. It isn't that I've never paid for a pedigree dog, but I've never gone looking for a dog, they've come to me. So... one rescue, literally off the side of the road. One rehome ( from the prison service). One "proper" dog- I was browbeaten into a pedigree pup from a friends litter, and one favour for a friend- a rehome from a litter she couldn't sell. 

Granted I have a very doggy circle of friends, but I've always found there is the right dog out there for you if you keep your arms open -  once upon a time I'd have laughed in your face if you'd told me I'd have a labradoodle