UKH

Short version: are there any good websites for researching how to get a decent-sized van for extended climbing trips?

Longer version: 

For the last couple of years I've used a wheelchair converted 2012 Renault Kangoo as a mini camper van. It actually works really well - futon mattress in the back on 4 IKEA boxes, drop the front seats at night, and it's like a real bed. I've lived out of it for 2 weeks at a time in the Alps, Scotland, etc. 

However, I live in London due to work, and in a few years the Ultra Low Emission Zone will come in to play, and that old diesel engine is going to start being very, very expensive (I use the Kangoo for transporting fishing gear more locally, so do want to be able to drive more than just to get out of London.) Looking ahead, then, I'm starting to day-dream about a 'proper' van - something like a VW converted, with pop-top roof, internal kitchen, etc. Not especially fussy about inside amenities - space for fishing and climbing gear > 'living' space.

On a rainy Sunday my gf and I nosed around the conversions at the camper centre on the drive back from Portland near St Leondard's, but the price of a new customised van is pretty prohibitive (even with savings + finance). So second hand looks more likely - but 1) I've no idea what sort of mileage is a good deal, etc, and 2) it would have to be fairly new to beat the ULEZ. 

Doing the conversion myself is probably out - I write and read books for a living, and last time I tried to do things with my hands, I managed to mutilate the walls of my flat and pull the hang board clean out of the, erm, plasterboard. DIY is not for me.

Any advice and links appreciated!

Daft question: do you *have* to live inside the ULEZ? (or even that London)

I just bought a flat (lol, don't even want to think about the collapse of the value in that between my first and second mortgage payments) so yeah, unfortunately. I'm only a couple of miles inside the north circular, but that couple of miles made a big difference in terms of area, transport links, etc.

Any kind of professionally converted van, even second hand, is going to be expensive. They hold their value much more than the underlying base van.  As an example, I know someone that paid over £10,000 for a 20yr old converted transit.

If it's ULEZ compliant then it needs to be Euro 6 and is going to be 3-4yrs old at most

I'd recommend joining the "Self Built Campervans" group on Facebook. It really isn't that hard to do - even for someone with no DIY skills initially. If anything, you get an idea of what size of van you want and what you need in it, and maybe pay someone to do the initial work.

Tricky living in the ULEZ. And mighty expensive I would think. Have you thought about living out of this new van you want to get and putting the £30 000 a year you would save in rent towards it? You can get a hell of a lot of van for that and you could shower at work and get to know the local public toilet system.

Tricky thing if you want some sort of future-proof solution is that you will probably end up needing to go electric at some point when the requirements for the ULEZ still don't result in acceptable air quality and it becomes even more strict. And right now campervan-sized vans that are electric don't really exist - I keep looking and being disappointed

In terms of what you are looking for, it's a little unclear, for a "decent-sized" van I would be thinking about a long-wheelbase transit or sprinter or something but I guess the VW you are talking about is a short wheelbase transporter? How big do you really need?

There are plenty of second-hand campers on the market, I guess the fundamental thing to check for is the state of the underlying vehicle. A car mechanic friend would be invaluable as he/she could tell you in 5 minutes if it's a pointless rust-bucket or a steal at the price. Personally I'd go for a younger vehicle rather than ones with less miles on the clock if there is a choice because in the UK rust almost always seems to be what kills things rather than failure of the engine or whatever other expensive functional part.

What is your budget?

Well, 2nd option, does your van have to stay in the ULEZ? if you're 2 miles in, find some secure storage on the other side of the line.

Cheers all, very helpful.

Budget would largely depend on my current ISA + what I save over the next (say) two years. I could do £10,000 3 years down the line, I think (and then have no savings left at all), but then will anything ULEZ compliant be under that, even second hand?

I was indeed thinking something like a Sprinter or Transit.

I did think about just living in a van, but wussed out (last winter I realised I really like having a sofa and a radiator when watching Netflix in January after work). Also, whereas parental help was forthcoming with mortgage deposit, the idea that I could just use their generosity to buy a van went down like a lead balloon.

You could consider an ENV-200  - no ULEZ worries then. Hopefully, there should some more of the newer 40kw hour ones coming onto the second-hand market soon. All the money saved on fuel can subsidies campsites for an overnight charge. lots of good designes for NV-200 based camper van out there for all setups. 

A newish van that is euro6 and in good nick is going to be >£20,000 i would have thought. And it can be hard finding something that will completely suit your needs especially if you need lots of storage for climbing equipment, etc.

I was of the same mindset, that DIY was something left to other people as knocking a nail into wood straight seemed beyond me. But I bit the bullet and converted a van about five years ago, and there is so much info out there on the web that whilst it was a steep learning curve, I ended up with something which I was quite proud of. I have now just started my second conversion.... 

If interested in converting, the Fiat Ducato/Peugeot Boxer/Citroen Relay are probably the most popular for conversions because they are slightly wider and squarer than most vans and are galvanised so are less prone to rust. Transits and to a lesser extent Sprinters are well known for their rust problems which is definitely something to consider if you are going to put a lot of effort into converting a van. If you want Euro6 on a Ducato/Boxer/Relay then you will need >2016 which is the blueHDI engine. 

The best resource on the web is the SBMCC forums: https://forum-sbmcc.co.uk. You do have to pay an annual subscription which is something like £15 a year, but there are some real knowledgable folk on there who have lots of experience in converting vans. You can also get discount on stuff if you are a member.

That is super helpful, thanks!

I was looking for similar solution and have looked at Renault Master for converting to a camper.
I will sertanly look for a blueHDI engine, thankx for the info.

Last year I bought 4 Citroen Relay L2H2 vans, all new but pre reg, aircon, electric windows, built in sat nav etc for £15,500 each. That wasn't a deal for 4 either it was the sticker price at the dealers and they wouldn't budge. 

Cracking vans, for the first time in 30 years I don't have back pain. Our mpg ranges from 28 to 34 mpg, mine is the heaviest ladened but I'm the only one that gets 34 mpg because I'm the only one that drives at 65 on the motorway. 

£10000 for ULEZ compliant Kango of a similar age (first hit on Google).

https://www.motors.co.uk/car-55281693/?i=1&m=sscp

Type in the registration to check:

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle-35896

Is it not just that diesel is not affordable in ULEZ but petrol is*?

*depending on price you get for the diesel Kango

Pretty sure Garrouli was talking about converted vans. Which are going to come in at over £20k for that age for anything remotely decent.

It’s kind of that I really want a “proper” van! But yes, the next best option is a ULEZ compliant Kangoo/Berlingo/other granny box car

Indeed - but I guess £15,500 for the base vehicle brand new is good value, and then can spread the cost of doing a conversion myself more slowly over time. 

That was my thought, I believe they have now done a face lift model so my version might be a bit cheaper. 

£15.5k before VAT though? Which takes it closer to £19k before you start any conversion...

Friends of mine recently converted a VW crafter as they wanted something tall, it's fantastic but it wasn't cheap.

As others have mentioned already I'd have thought getting something cheaper and paying a few hundred a year to store it outside the ULEZ would be a better bet.

Hi Paul. A tangential question just about ULEZ; living outside of London (and not in any major city) I have not had to learn much about it. What exactly is going to happen in the next few years re: diesel vehicles within ULEZ? I am pondering a change of vehicle (car not van) at the moment and - as unfashionable as it is - I am not yet ruling out diesels (whatever I buy will probably only be for seeing me through a few years before running it into the ground). If ULEZ for me will mean no more than paying a tenner occasionally to enter a ULEZ I can live with that. Is it a global thing or a UK thing? 

Ah never mind, just Googled it. I have driven a car in the ULEZ approximately twice in the last 10 years and this is not really about to increase, so not a factor for me. 

Bloody good point, I tend to forget about VAT. Still 20k is bloody good value for a large van with a 3 year 100k warranty on it. 

Then you probably now know more about it than I do! 

but basically if you don’t live in London I don’t think it affects you really. 

Yes they look excellent value, I'm looking at a new L2H2 Peugeot boxer (same Van, different badge on it) or a Relay and can't find them for less than £16.5k + VAT anywhere near me (Hertfordshire). 

Thanks again to everyone - have to say these petrol Nissans looks absolutely brilliant for my needs

https://www.sussexcampervans.com/our-vans/nv200-campercar

some serious saving, and assuming my delayed promotion at work comes through only a year late, plus finance options...maybe, maybe. 

A campervan type thing with loads of windows does have a big security issue for climbing trips.  Visually hiding stuff helps a little.  We specifically bought a standard panel van and converted without putting in windows, so that parking for alpine and day trips wasn't quite as worrying.  Do not regret no windows at all -- even though beforehand thought we might feel like cave dwellers!  Did remove bulkhead and replace with curtains though which gives enough light. 

Initially I was quite keen on NV200s, but the wee wheels put me off. Very happy with Transit Custom.  Enough room for a hidden toilet which is a game-changer from having used a car (like you) for the previous 10 years.  You can camp in all the Aires.  Middle of towns...  Live in it for 3 months at a time.

I liked at the Peugeot variation when I bought mine and they were about a grand more, must be an expensive badge. 

My 15.5k on the enterprise spec (Air con, sat nav etc) was June 2019, prices may have gone up. 

in case you decide to go down the VW T5 route, we're looking to sell our conversion (poptop/bed, kitchen, rock n roll bed, etc.).  It is however a 2004 model so no good for the ULEZ I guess. Cheers Ben