UKH

… on the BBC - just scroll down:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49504526

She looks for all the world like the cat that got the cream. As well she might, because with Davidson gone that's one more obstacle in the way of independence removed, and one step nearer Scotland joining the EU. That's a sufficiently realistic possibility that I'm even contemplating moving there.

Another triumph for Johnson, PM of the United Kingdom of England and Wales!

Your tax will go up and the cost of beer is more!

I’m sure that the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms.

Another net recipient to fund and another external land border to police.

There will be opposition from Spain, but that is about it.

CB

So there’s a huge problem with creating a hard border between Northern Ireland and the UK but there won’t be any problems with a similar border between Scotland and England?

Can you really, really, really, really not see the difference? In fact, there's three:

1) There are far fewer crossings between England and Scotland than between N Ireland and Ireland - it's really quite a depopulated part of the world. Bung a barrier across the A74 and you've pretty much got it cracked.

2) It's been 200 years since people were fighting over borders between Scotland and England; it's been about 20 since they stopped in N Ireland.

3) And Scotland WANT the border; neither side wants it in Ireland.

Unlike your usual thoughtful posts I feel that you might have oversimplified the border issues.

There certainly would have been but I think brexit will probably temper that.

jk

Scotland applying to remain in / rejoin the EU would be a major PR coup for the EU on the world stage, and as such most welcome. In a way the opposite of why Trump and Putin welcome Brexit.

Spanish reservations due to Catalunya will certainly have to be dealt with, but that is nothing new. The EU lives by constant haggling and compromise.

CB

It is strange to reflect that in all probability we’ll see a hard border in this island in our lifetimes, thanks to this stupid nonsense.

jcm

I wouldn't underplay the significance of a hard border between Scotland and England, to be honest. It isn't going to kick off Irish-style troubles, but it's very much in Scotland's (and England's) interest to have a soft border there.

I for one, while strongly supporting Scottish independence, never wanted Scotland to not be in a union with England/the rest of the UK, with free trade and free movement. It's really unfortunate that England wants to leave the union that enabled that, and the consequences will of course be seen first and most obviously in Ireland.

This is one of the things about England wanting a hard brexit - it makes things worse for Scotland with or without independence, it's just that independence allows Scotland the chance to head in a better direction from there.

You're wrong on all three points but I do agree that if BJ is trying to get Scotland to leave the UK he's playing an absolute blinder.

Can't fault him.

According to this year’s figures from the Scottish government, exports to the rest of the UK totalled 49 billion. Meanwhile, Scottish exports to the entire rest of the EU amounted to 15 billion.

...and you think Scotland will welcome a hard border?

'Your tax will go up and the cost of beer is more!'

But I'll be a European citizen, with freedom of movement, access to the  court of human rights, readily available European food, created with ever-improving standards of welfare and environmental protection; and be part of a 600 million strong  political entity that can create our own destiny in the world with shared values of the rule of law, citizen's rights, democratic accountability, social justice, economic development, environmental protection, sustainability and international development.

Hey, I'm off! 

What about Buckfast smuggling, isn't it made by monks in Devon or Somerset? 

A quick and probably inaccurate scan of the map suggests 21 roads, 2 railways lines and a bunch of public rights of way and access land to the southern side of the border.

That’s quite the statement...

You will of course still have access to the ECHR after Brexit, until the Tories repeal the Human Rights Act, as they have said they will, and even after that until we withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights, which I think even the Tories have so far seen as a step too far, although I don’t suppose that will last long the way they’re going.

jcm

After the mess created by the Tory party I think most Scots will want independence. 

I've not checked so maybe wrong but think I read/heard that there are some 300 roads crossing the Irish border

I expect the currency will be an issue like last time

Yes that was my understanding.

My guess is EEA membership would look really attractive to rUK if Scotland was in the EU.   There was only a 2% majority for any form of Brexit in 2016 and Scotland rejoining the EU would give many voters a reason to want to be in the EU single market and have freedom of movement.  There's a lot of voters in England with family members in Scotland and a lot voters working for English companies that also trade in Scotland.

My maternal grandparents were Scottish. I’d seriously consider upping sticks if England continues on its way ho becoming the 51st state. 

A deal will be the easiest thing in the world to do. Don't be a gloomster. 

Just got back from Scotland. I can't figure out why I don't already live there. 

It would also pretty much straight-out solve the Irish border issue.

I really don't get why this 'Norway Option' wasn't the Brexit of choice for the government to pursue - it's a compromise, giving a fair bit to remainers and to leavers, who let's remember were pretty close in numbers; it was promoted as an option by several prominent leavers during the referendum campaign; and it avoids the massive economic problems and risks of leaving the single market, and the border issues.

An landslide victory for leave might have given a remit for a hard brexit, but the result we actually got pretty much screamed 'compromise on a soft brexit'.

Ach well, we are where we are now and will have to make the best of it.

Given the number of people expressing a wish to move to an independent Scotland,

(a) Please move up and help it happen!

(b) I'm starting to think that positive 'brain drain' INTO Scotland may actually be a significant plus to independence.

That's because the Irish border is the result of a gerrymandered carve up. Whereas the Scottish border mostly follows the lie of the land (and of course hundreds of years of savage conflict.) 

Yes, sorry, forgot about that.

OK, Scottish independence it is then.

I wouldn't rush. This country is split too, albeit the balance has likely shifted, at least for now. It is unlikely, especially given who it would seem would be leading the rUK side, that negotiations would be any easier than brexit.  Independence will not be quick, cheap or easy it will cause disruption financially and division politically and socially. Its effects will be deeper than brexit.

It is possible that, as many on these forums believe, the price would be worth paying, but, like brexit, be careful what you wish for. 

As Eric says above, Boris Johnson seems to be doing his best to drive Scotland out of the Union and is playing a blinder in that respect.  

Pretty much like Switzerland has apart from the obvious.

It's not the cost of the beer, it's the quality that shocks me.

I believe other drinks are available.