UKH

We have a self seeded cherry on the allotment. It no longer bears fruit. It's about a foot wide, 1. 5 ft diameter. About 20 ft high to canopy. We've checked and it's permissible to chop it down as it's basically in the way. Questions how to do this please. If we pay a professional  have heard it would cost a lot. I think you need a licence for a chain saw. Is there anything intermediate to help us to do this ourselves. Thanks.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

A large bow saw and elbow grease?

In reply to MG:

I use bow saws a lot in clearing trees and branches that are in the way of routes I'm equipping, and they're really very good. Cheap as chips too. Although your tree does seem to be near the upper end of what may reasonably be tackled by one, so best get the biggest one you can find.

But it's very important to start sawing from the uphill side of the tree, so that the progressive tension in the remaining trunk works with you rather than against you.

Alternatively, find a mate with a chainsaw and save yourself a few hours hard labour!

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Have you got enough space to confidently avoid damage to greenhouses, sheds or fences? Well worth bringing in a professional who is less likely to cause damage and will be fully insured if something doesn't go to plan. 

To pay someone they will need lots of qualifications, expensive equipment and insurance, so no not cheap. They will also remove the wood and waste for you. 

If you do it yourself I'd second the suggestion to use a bow saw, as although you don't need a qualification to use a chain saw using one without training or full PPE would be irresponsible. (and if you are thinking of using ropes to climb the tree in order to dismmantle it, you absolutely want to be using a hand saw) 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Another recommendation for a bow saw.  

Strip the tree using anvil loppers for removing small and medium branches and a pruning saw for the larger ones.  Then cut it down with a bow saw before chopping it in to manageable lengths for whatever you want to do with it.

Read around on the pitfalls of felling trees first!

In reply to john arran:

Indeed. Most folk cutting trees regularly put chocks in what you'd call the back once they've started cutting. This applies pressure in the direction you want it to fall and takes the weight off the chainsaw/bow saw.

Op. Be very cautious watching YouTube instruction clips, there are some horrendously dangerous practices on there by folk claiming to know what they are doing. 

If it's in your garden and you've a clear landing space, consider are there any cables or pipes buried not so deep, it's surprising how far a branch might push into the ground when it's got a ton of wood driving it in. 

Trees generally fall in the direction of greatest mass unless your cutting technique dictates otherwise, a few heavy branches could easily change it's direction or even send it the opposite way. Even if everything looks good, take off any branches you can easily reach from the ground first. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

As others have said, no licence needed for a chainsaw.  You can go buy one today from Screwfix.  But it's overkill for a one-off job and I would never suggest that someone uses a chainsaw without PPE and training.  A good sharp bow saw will manage.

Much easier, though, is to wait a few weeks, see who has smoke coming out of their chimneys when they light their woodburners for the first time, and then knock on their door offering free wood if they'll cut it down for you!  Cherry is excellent firewood... you won't have to ask very many.

Edit: you aren't anywhere near Oxford, are you?

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Thank you for wood burning advice. Up North, not Oxford.

In reply to MG:

A sharp axe & elbow grease would be so much more effective.

Good chance the bow saw will snag & get caught, therefore you will be unable to release it to carry on cutting your tree down.

Don’t underestimate the weight of that tree, it’s fair size.

In reply to Jenny C:

...cue every wood burner on UKC asking where the OP lives!

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I’d take as many branches off as possible with a pruning saw (Lidl have them in at the mo), especially on the uphill side, and then drop it. Less chance of it smashing stuff up then. 
(You don’t need a licence for a chainsaw, but you do need PPE & to know what you’re doing!!) 

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Leeds!

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Cutting down the tree is one aspect. Getting it to land where it wont do damage is another. Allotments up here are quite narrow. A 20ft high tree could take out a fair few sheds and ruin some well tended plots. And there is the danger to other people within the felling zone. You have to balance the cost of hiring someone to do it for you against the cost of paying for all the damage you do if it goes tit's up!

I'd be hiring someone in. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Are you able to get a ladder to climb up into the tree? A methodical taking off of the branches keeping in mind what they might fall on could be doable, some looking up about branch tension and compression and how to take the weight off a cut you are making close to the trunk by sawing/lopper-ing* through the branch further along too, could save you time and frustration due to the saw getting trapped and stuck when sawing.

* You're not strictly supposed to, but it's possible to lopper through thicker than recommended branches by only going halfway through from one side, and then rotating them and going through from the other side to finish off. The recommended width is more or less the thickness of a thumb, to avoid too much wear on the pivots and joins.

In reply to Fozzy:

Thanks. Borrowed a bow saw plus have pruning saw.Have started cutting medium and small branches. Ground perfectly flat and away from sheds etc. Will then decide what to do with bigger trunk  .

In reply to gimmergimmer:

There's a tree near us where someone has bolted a bunch of climbing holds in to it.  I'm not going to comment on safety margins and so on!

In reply to gimmergimmer:

If there's a space large enough to drop the height of the tree without hitting anything, then that's pretty straightforward.  You just make sure you leave enough stubs of the lower branches as you lop them (or bring a ladder) in order that you can climb up to tie a rope near the top, so a helper can guide the fall.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I see you've started - but if you need a break from doing it piecemeal - I'd ask around on the allotment - I've always found  people with allotments are the type of people who either have, or are able to borrow a chainsaw. Ask around amongst some of the allotment regulars - hopefully you'll get lucky.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

A 20 foot tree is just a bush. Borrow a chainsaw and it will take around five seconds to drop it, guessing it’s less than a foot thick. If your worried which way it will fall, tie a rope half way up and pull. 

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Green timber (i.e. stuff just cut down) will be saturated with sap and need seasoning (i.e. drying out) for about a year before it will burn properly. Apologies if you already know this, but it is a consideration if going down that route.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I have just been quoted £350 to remove a fir tree from the garden.

Normally I would do it myself but this one is against the fence, 3 foot from the neighbours house, 6 foot from our shed and 10 foot from our garage and about 25 foot tall. Couldn't be positioned worse so I'm happy to pay someone with insurance to sort it out .

It's a shame your stump is only a foot to 18 inch diameter, if it was 18 inch to 2 foot it would make an excellent anvil stand. My anvil stands on a softwood stump and it's pretty soft too so I'm losing a lot of the hammer energy. 

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

You need a licence to hire one. Certainly here. 

In reply to john arran

No, no, no. 

Assess tree lean branch distribution etc and decide which is the best way for it to fall. Then cut in on the side you wish it fall and take a wedge out. Say 25 % of thickness of tree. Then cut from the other side of the tree parallel to first cut. Before your cuts join up the tree should start to fall guided by the remaining timber which acts as a hinge until it breaks. 

Before doing that plan your escape route if the tree comes back at you the wrong way. This is a diagonal line away from the direction of fall of the tree. Needs to be free of obstacles. 

In reply to Removed Userena sharples:

I did, bit it's a good point - anyone taking this tree down for fire wood will want to leave felling it till the winter now - that way it will season faster.

Dax: where are you? I can give you a shout the next time I get hold of a decent hardwood trunk. I've a few lined up for this winter to bring in but they're all softwood.

Ian: it's bizarrely much easier to buy a chainsaw than to hire one! Some hire companies will only hire to someone with formal training, and others will insist that they give you a quick training course as you pick it up.  But you can just buy one with absolutely no idea of what you're doing...

In reply to summo:

I take off the lowest, largest branches first and a few more on the side opposite the wedge.  Laying several sections of thick branch perpendicular to the trunk where it's expected to fall can save a lot of ground damage from the fall.

In reply to walts4:

Felling a tree with an axe is bloody hard work.  Satisfying, but proper hard.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

There's a very good instructional video by husqvarna on YouTube that deals very well with the safety aspects of chopping trees. 

It should be easy to find.

In reply to wintertree:

Yeah. Not something that would naturally spring to my mind as I cut for timber and anything that hits mid tree could act as a pivot and cause it to snap. But yeah in a garden it's potentially reducing ground damage. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

When you say it is "in the way" in what way?  Consider that it could provide welcome shade for some plants on the allotment in long hot, dry periods (which do seem to be on the increase).  The trunk doesn't sound like it takes up much space so with some thinking about which plants would do well in the shade of this tree, couldn't it be used to benefit your allotment?  If you cut it and plant something else that bears fruit, it sounds like it will be a while before it reaches that sort of maturity and offers a similar amount of shade.  

Just a different idea that may or may not be workable from someone who quite likes trees...to the extent that we have them all over our veg garden....

In reply to 1234None:

It likely falls into the bracket of no such thing as a bad tree, just wrong location.  

I suspect many folk plant trees without visualising just how big it will be in 20 or 30 years, or just how much shade it might cast. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Don't cut it yet because of the sap still rising. It'll be harder work and you'll do more damage to the saw. Wait til the end of October and then do a birdmouth cut as a previous poster said - wedge cut in the preferred direction of fall and then a straight line cut on the opposite side of the trunk from the wedge just above the bottom cut of the wedge. That will form the hinge of the fall.

Cheers

Davie

In reply to gimmergimmer:

We've got a 20-30 foot leylandii in the front garden that needs to go: next to the road so plenty of dropping space as long as I can move it once dropped (cul de sac so limited traffic). However, it isn't the dropping that is the problem; it is getting rid of the waste (leylandii doesn't burn well) and removing the stump. I've been quoted £150 by a qualified arborist to drop the tree and take away the brash (to a legitimate dump) and another £100 to grind and remove the stump. It isn't cutting down that's the problem: its the removal of the stump and branches. Cherry is good burning wood, and worth logging, but even then there will be a lot of twigs and small branches which need to be removed and disposed of. Get a good arboist in, pay him, and ask him to log the worthwhile branches into nice 6-12 inch logs while he is at it.

In reply to summo:

In what way wrong location though?  That was what I was wondering.  The OP suggests that part of the reason he wants to cut it is that it no longer produces any fruit (so one could reasonably assume that its location could be easily tolerated when it did so).  Sure...the trunk takes up a bit of space but rather than cut the entire tree some good trimming can reduce the shade cast, and then plants appreciating shade can be planted beneath.  I'm still curious as to why it is "in the way".  Not criticising....just wondering from the perspective of someone who has had their own mind changed about how useful trees can be in an allotment/veg garden setting.  Traditional allotments were all lines of vegetables and bare soil, but as the climate begins to change I think we will see more of these veg gardens covered with straw and other biomatter, plus more "food forest" set-ups.  If it is a healthy tree I think there is probably a good argument for leaving it alone, as an allotment is rarely somewhere it'll be in the way of vehicles or similar.  If everyone who has a tree that is "in the way" cuts it this year, how many trees will that be?  I suspect quite a lot, so I am just chipping in to see if there are any arguments for leaving this particular tree alone.  Will leaving this tree alone seriusly incovenience the OP, or put him on the breadline?  Is it just a matter of convenience/inconvenience? I think with answers to these questions for each similar tree that is cut, quite a lot of trees could be saved, quite a lot of carbon absored (pissing in the wind you'll probably say, but every little helps!) and quite a lot of beauty preserved.  I've been through this thought process and having started out earmarking trees for cutting, I have, after reflection, then left them alone.  A few years later and I am very glad I did. 

In reply to Mad Tommy:

It burns just fine.  If you're doing logs I'd give them a couple of years to season and split them smaller than normal.  

Totally agree about the hassle in getting rid of the brash - takes far longer doing it yourself than falling the tree.  It's no fun and most of the work.

In reply to summo:

Our area has a line of  Sitka that was planted some 40 years ago; they've out-grown what's typical for a forest plantation in the UK and are still going strong, they could reach 100 meters high by the time I'm dead, which would be quite something for England - then again they're sparse and few in number so aren't as protected from the wind as in their natural forest environment so might not make it through the storms.

In reply to 1234None:

Yeah it's a little odd. But it's likely to really be shade related. It's odder still it's stopped fruiting we have larger and likely older cherry trees next to the house that still crop. Should their day come, they'll be replaced with similar as they provide good wind protection. 

In reply to wintertree:

I think they'll keep growing but potentially not as high as that. Wind wise trees are most at risk when forest is thinned rapidly or harvested around them, if they have been exposed for a while their base will naturally flair out a bit, elephants foot shape, and their roots will thicken as they wind harden. Spruces often go because there isn't space between for the wind and their flat root plates interlock, once one goes it's a chain reaction.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

If you are going to take the stump out as well then you can make the job easier by leaving a decent length of trunk to use as a lever to pull it over as you chop through the roots.

In reply to summo:

Which is why I wouldn’t have planted one right at the edge of a deep gully - the horizontal plane can’t exist around 60% of the circumference of the tree I’m most worried about...  Especially as the prevailing wind comes from gully side...

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Bit far for me, otherwise I'd have been there with my chainsaw at the ready

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

I'm in Leeds, Oxford is a bit of a run but probably worth it for a good stump. A good lump of hardwood will probably outlast me and be something to pass on to the next owner of the anvil . ( Not having kids my plan is to work with the smithing forum I'm part of and pass my equipment to whoever needs it the most when in either brown bread or physically can't do it anymore)

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

I wonder if there's an element of liability placed on the person hiring out the saw? As a type 1 diabetic I can't get insurance to parachute jump, but I can to paraglide while having an emergency parachute, that's never made any sense to me.

In reply to Timmd:

Possibly or possibly they just don't want the bad press . Man dies after hiring a chainsaw from xxxx

In reply to wintertree:

 

I chopped a Laburnum down (about the same size as this cherry tree) with a machete, now that's hard work. The inner core is like iron and it makes the machete "ping" on every chop.

It was very satisfying.

In reply to Dax H: That makes sense. It's just the 'small trees' ticket I have, but I'd definitely advocate anybody wanting to chainsaw going on a week's course if they can afford to and can find the time, I picked up all kinds of things from my course, like how a 10 cm across ash tree can split in a way which can break a leg of the person standing too near it when felling it, and that most accidents happen after 2pm. I was taught by a grey haired woodsman in his 70's, and while I couldn't teach it have been complemented on my de-limbing technique which I absorbed from him, in how I follow the saw along the tree.

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Another thing to bear in mind is that cherries are shallow rooted and will put up suckers from these roots if the main stem is sickly or cut. Worth keeping an eye out for these

In reply to summo:

Here’s the precariously perched Sitka at sunset today.

In reply to Dax H:

They own the chainsaw. It’s very hard to prove that something you own didn’t cause a problem, was maintained correctly and that the problem was caused by the person hiring. 

In reply to gimmergimmer:

Get a quote rather than relying on “I’ve heard”. Don’t forget to factor in disposal and chipping of branches. If you have to do that part yourself it can get labour intensive and you need a vehicle. If you’re doing it yourself  20ft doesn’t sound very high. Get a long pole saw and saw the upper branches off with it. You’ll be left with a 20ft trunk that would be cheaper for a tree surgeon to quickly chop down for you. 

In reply to wintertree:

Big trees are always impressive. Imagine what it'll be like in another couple of decades. There are quite a few dotted around stately gardens in the north east that have coped with the climate well. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Thanks for the help. It's twenty ft to the leaf canopy rather than trunk so I may manage. Is a polesaw easier than a chain saw-training etc Ta

In reply to gimmergimmer:

I wasn’t suggesting a powered one. Sounds like it’s bigger than I thought then. Even with a chainsaw you’d have to climb up into the tree to get to the branches before dropping it. I think that’s definitely a professional job.