UKH

I’ve just emailed my MP here in Sheffield Olivia Blake a link to the BMC request for a ban on these. The response was pretty non comital basically that there is existing legislation so no further action or legislation is needed.

It seems to me that three fires in two weeks in Derbyshire alone means the legislation and campaigns really aren’t working. Coincidentally I was in Aldi today and walked into the store past two  full pallets of them stacked 5ft high, it got me thinking which country are they actually made in and what’s the actual source of the charcoal ? Sustainable or not ? It would be a double environmental whammy if they are adding to deforestation overseas and also burning vast swathes of our countryside.
 

In reply to muppetfilter:

Good shout. I will email mine too and report back on what they say.

In reply to muppetfilter: last lock down easing we cleared up what looked like a mini festival site on one of the beaches on crummock . Let alone had the little darlings left a couple of bin liners of the usual crap but they d seen fit to Chuck a few used bbqs into the lake,

including the razor sharp grills that sit on top . As usual , I came up with a few unusual combinations of insults I wouldn’t say In front of my grandma . 

edit : might be worth having a word with Aldi and Wilco to get a sign politely  asking users after using  this product to “ clear your f£&king mess up you scuzzy w@£ker “ 

In reply to muppetfilter:

The barbecues are not the problem, people are.

I regularly use them responsibly to enjoy a post climb burger while u watch the sun set.

They have become a bit of a poster boy for ranting. Interestingly, no one reacts to discarded beer cans or bottles by calling for a ban on beer. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Possibly because the risk of causing wildfire is  far lower (not nonexistant particularly with bottles)?

In reply to mondite:

I won't mention camping stoves 😊

A ban on disposable bbqs would only encourage the setting of small fires to cook burgers. These are out of containment and a much higher risk.

Lenticular effect of glass in strong sunlight, focused on tinder dry scrub? 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

You can do since I suspect the risk is rather lower since they are specifically designed to be able to be packed away in short order.

Would they? I doubt most people lazy enough to use a disposable bbq would have the skills to set up a fire for cooking easily. Hence why they go for the easy option.

Yes which I acknowledged so next?

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Not if they replace them with five quid bucket BBQs on the supermarket shelves, which are reusable, easier to carry out and actually successfully cook food.

In reply to muppetfilter:

Although I have used portable barbecues in the past, and they are convenient, I agree they should be banned. Unfortunately, those of us who use them responsibly will have to give them up to help to stop idiots setting fire to the countryside.

Dave

I've seen these things in some of the most out of the way off piste places (not the sort of places I'd expect your average Joe going to the effort of going to) with bags of empty burger packets and empty tinnies etc. It's always confused the hell out of me, you lug all that heavy stuff somewhere and don't take the lighter, empty stuff with you. Perplexing, but I guess much like all things these days, it's the minority that spoils it for the majority.

All the same I emailed my MP too.

In reply to Alkis:

This is what we use for the beach, pre charged with charcoal and kindling, easy to carry in and out and has lasted a few years of abuse.

In reply to muppetfilter:

It’s not just moorland fires. When most folk use them they simply place them on the ground. Lakes with public access are suffering because the scorched grass then gets eroded (rain then floods) and shorelines are getting irreversibly trashed. 
 

Defo ban them. And those bloody balloons. And Chinese bloody lanterns. And...

In reply to muppetfilter:

Years back I noticed the charcoal came then from Myanmar. Quite a matter at the time as it apparently also came from tidal mangroves so was pretty bad shit re environmental impact. 

Wherever it comes from, it's unlikely to be much better. Could be an angle for reeling them in.

In reply to muppetfilter:

What did she say was the relevant existing legislation?

In reply to jethro kiernan:

I'm sure you do, but for all beach bbq users :

please ensure the sand under  bbqs is cooled afterwards with lots of sea water, else sand can get so hot that it can give bad burns quite easily.. To get etc.  Even our habachi style bbq radiates enough heat to need sand cooling. And that's about 3 inches off the sand.

Please don't ever bury your bbq or charcoal. That really did get hot. The baby that crawled over that was in a bad way.

Thanks

In reply to Alkis:

And then leave those lying around, after all it's only a fiver. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

I agree it’s the ignorant users it’s also the ease with which they are bought . I don’t think there’s a more cost effective way to destroy 50 hectares of moorland , endangered species , livestock and cost the fire service hundreds of thousands of pounds in man hours and resources.

There are other more environmentally and convenient as well as cost effective options.

https://www.diy.com/departments/sommen-black-charcoal-bucket-barbecue/36636...

In reply to muppetfilter:

Do you know what burns more countryside and causes measured environmental damage? "Managed" moorland burning. BBQs are a scapegoat. Better to email your MP about the former (not that that excludes the latter).

In reply to Rob Parsons:

This is what my email reply said regarding legislation.

“As you are aware, there are existing powers in English and Welsh legislation which can be used by the relevant authorities to regulate and prohibit the lighting of fires on Access Land in Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and National Parks. Byelaw legislation also allows for local authorities across the UK to restrict and enforce the use of disposable BBQs in parks and public spaces.
 
“There is a Countryside Code for England and a separate one for Wales, and Scotland has its own Outdoor Access Code. These codes all provide guidance on the lighting of fires, but each nation is currently advising people not to light fires. The English code also currently advises people not to have BBQs, while the latest advice in Wales and Scotland is to take care when lighting BBQs.”

In reply to muppetfilter:

It's 2021. Anything labelled as 'disposable' should be banned, never mind something which is abandoned by pricks in public parks, scorches the earth under it by default, starts moorland fires and doesn't work very well. 

There are plenty of lightweight BBQ options that don't break the bank, function better as BBQs, are elevated from the ground, and won't be abandoned because they don't cost £1. If disposable BBQs were banned, you would still see plenty of people enjoying BBQs on beaches and in parks but I bet you wouldn't find loads of discarded notebook BBQs the next morning. 

In reply to muppetfilter:

I doubt banning disposbale barbecues will have much of an affect, they'll just take small bbqs and maybe leave them behind too, or just have an open fire. There was a bbq fire in Padley Gorge last week despite signs all over the place asking people not to use them.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

There will be people that will, yes. On the other hand, those come with a handle to carry back and don't have "disposable" on the title.

In reply to Justaname:

There was also a bonfire in the middle of Yarncliffe.

In reply to Justaname:

Both the Fire at Padley Gorge and Rushup edge were both caused by foil Barbecues so if they weren’t stacked head height in supermarkets i doubt neither of these incidents would have happened. 
To counter the point the reusable cheap ones would get left .... a £10 reusable barbecue abandoned in an area frequented by Yorkshiremen won’t be there very long.

In reply to muppetfilter:

If you ban tinfoil barbecues you will just find more abandoned cheap bucket type barbecues instead. 

In reply to muppetfilter:

Do they necessarily need totally banning?

Perhaps it'd be better to legislate on the design, for instance to require the base to have a built-in spacer to keep it at least a few inches from the ground, and to use something less pointy for the grille on top?

Other Byelaws could control use in AONBs etc.

In reply to muppetfilter:

Yeah.  We should ban everything that Numpties use because they are stupid, can't be responsible and cause problems.

Ban Cars - Numpties drive them, crash and kill people.  I am often shocked when I drive around London just how many cars can be found in ditches.  Clearly London is Numpty central.

Ban the internet.  Numpties use it to spread false news, conspiracy theories and anti vaccer stuff that can lead to unnecessary deaths.

Ban voting.  Numpties vote for idiots like Trump and Nicolás Maduro dangerous politicians who destroy lives, start wars, embezzle money, lock up there own population.

Ban Climbing.  Numpties trample the rare flora and fauna, disturb nesting birds, fall off and use scarce NHS resources, and cook burgers at the end of the day on those nasty disposable barbecues.

Ban Birth.  Numpties are born and destroy the planet.  It would be so much better without Humans.  I can't believe we still allow Humans to be born.  I AM WRITING TO MY MP ABOUT IT!

BAN HUMANITY, ITS FULL OF NUMPTIES

In reply to muppetfilter:

Alternatively you could just point out that given the presumably millions of disposable BBQs sold vs the number of incidents involving them that the whinging about them is pretty overblown.  A small number of people do silly things.  It has always been thus.  Why should the millions of responsible people lose out because of the few. 

In reply to marsbar:

Significantly less bucket BBQs would be abandoned and if I came across an abandoned one personally, I'd probably av it. They also don't scorch the earth like the foil ones do.  

Yes, people might just start fires instead but then they are probably actually breaking rules and should be challenged or fined accordingly. 

In reply to tallsteve:

Does someone need a hug ? There are a million roughly a year sold but like high school shooting massacres it only takes one to do horrific damage.

A quick reminder in the link of what happens when fires get out of hand ? I can promise you it’s only going to get worse this year.

youtube.com/watch?v=iOci_RjoyGw&

In reply to tallsteve:

What exactly will people miss out on by disposable BBQs being banned? You can get non-disposable portable BBQs for ~£10. If you're going to have a BBQ in a park you can hardly play the poverty card - you're going to have spent at least £20 on meat and booze. 

How many people were driving in the 70s and how many people were killed because they didn't have a seatbelt in their car? Probably a very small % but that doesn't mean that making seatbelts mandatory wasn't a smart decision. Yes only a small % of disposable BBQ users are irresponsible idiots but their actions cause noticeable damage. It only takes one disposable BBQ to cause a moorland fire that could cause a ton of damage to habitat and cost hundreds of thousands of £s in controlling. I could go to any inner city park and count the scorch marks. 

In reply to tallsteve:

The XR/Guardianista types were effectively saying this for years... until something came along that might have had the potential to actually do it... then they changed their tune quickly enough.

"BAN EVERYTHING... except me".

In reply to muppetfilter:

There were fires before disposable BBQs.  Though there has been a reduction in smoking so cigarette related fires have probably been reduced.

Many upland fires are started deliberately.  Go figure ...

In reply to tallsteve:

Just Five days ago. Deliberately started with a disposable barbecue.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-derbyshire...

In reply to PaulJepson:

You'll find abandoned £10 Barbies just as you do tents in some areas.

When something is banned there are always losers.  Potentially millions of users.  Most of whom were sensible users.  I am not objecting necessarily to the ban of disposable BBQs but to the way all of our freedoms and options are slowly eroded year by year because of knee jerk reactions to small issues being blown up out of all proportion. 

Once the barbie has cooled, pop it in a bag, separate the cardboard tin foil base and grill and drop them in the recycling.  No biggie, but still the numpties won't even collect their MacD boxes and wrappers and drop them in the bin.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

I think nobody calls for a ban on beer cans or bottles because there's no workable alternative. I cycled past a smoking picnic table near The Norfolk Arms on Ringinglow, and investigated to find it was a disposable BBQ causing the problem, and used puddle water to sort it (though the wood was charred and damaged), when I cycled past later in the year there was a concrete slab bolted to each table to protect the wood. 

If fires in natural places keep happening, and costing money and wildlife - bugs and lizards and ground nesting birds, even if it's unfair on you the benefits may be considered to be worth it.

More tangentially, I wonder what the environmental cost of a disposable BBQ is compared to one which is kept and used repeatedly...

In reply to tallsteve:

I've used disposable BBQs (responsibly) before but I'm hardly going to storm the Capitol if they're banned. I doubt many people would even notice and as others have said, there are easy alternatives. I'd imagine most would just get on with it and buy a cheap portable BBQ. As has already been said, less of them would be abandoned and those that were would cause less damage to their surrounding (i.e. not ignite the floor).  

There are numerous, good environmental arguments as to why they should not be allowed. Are there many pros? They're not very good at cooking food. The only things going for them are A) convenience to get hold of them and B) cost, and both of those directly contribute to their misuse. 

In reply to muppetfilter:

The big problem is, unfortunately you can't outlaw Stupid.

If you do buy them, get them from the Co-op (as they have FSC certified charcoal), but as others say, if you ban disposable BBQs people will just start campfires or cook over a metal bucket with charcoal failing to safeguard the fire.

You don't want to scorch the grass, so put the bbq on top of that pile of dry heather, lets go for a walk somewhere while it cooks --> and 1000 other types of stupid. 

Maybe they should put a rack of fire beaters by every car park with a sign next to them "beaters for use if people bbq" the idiots might think that means they get hit with them if they bbq and keep away? You can only hope.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

A change in approach may work, accept that people are going to behave like this, continue to educate them, but provide them with safer means to do what they want with perhaps slabs / dedicated areas to have their BBQs, along with some beaters as well.

Unfortunately this would mean spending money, which would probably be more than the cost of the damage of the fires caused.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

"The barbecues are not the problem, people are." 

There's no doubts peoples behaviour is a problematic (free will is a bugger eh?), but the barbecues are a problem. Disposable barbecues are unnecessary, a waste of resources and energy to manufacture and transport, once used and discarded they add to the mountains of landfill waste.

I don't think a ban is an over reaction at all.

In reply to roar:

Here in Dorset we have been appealing for a ban for quite a while now, and it went to parliament last week to ban them in high fire risk areas, (although unsure of the outcome as of yet) after the Wareham forest fires that lasted over a week last year. 

My personal stance is that disposable (although they've been cleverly rebranded to 'instant' bbqs) should be only allowed in personal gardens, or pre-designated bbqing areas. The site I work at, they are strewn across the beach each morning as visitors ignore the signage, can't be bothered waiting for them to fully cool down, or end up chucking them in the bin, which has on multiple occasions, set the bl**dy bin on fire! Oh, and for those who have let the coals cool down, we often find charcoal graffiti on our chalk cliffs! Awful things. 

In reply to tallsteve:

A sensible user of a use-once disposable barbeque is almost an oxymoron in my view. I've rarely seen sensible use outdoors from those alleged millions of responsible people who might suffer. Even for home garden use the only slightly more expensive reusable barbeques cook better, make much less mess in your garden, and save money overall.

In reply to tallsteve:

Your post (and others like it) remind me of a two year old throwing a wobbly!

But at least in the child's case it's a side effect of the developing brain, part of the growing experience as they learn the world does not revolve around them, learning that just because they want something does not make it so.

Do you have a reasonable excuse, or is it just a regressive "you don't tell me what to do" knee jerk response, thinly disguised as concern about collective freedoms?