UKH

Living on the edge of Leeds it looks like we'll be moving into tier 3 by Monday. 

Lots of local politicians seem to be making a big song and dance about this but there appears to be no real difference from tier 2. The only differences I can work out are that we can't sit with friends in our garden (not exactly likely in November) and that we can't go to the pub unless we're having a substantial meal. But in tier 2 we can only go to the pub with members of our own household which seems to defeat the purpose of going to the pub anyway. I've not been the pub for the past few weeks but if I did I can't imagine why I'd want to go with my wife to sit on our own unless we were getting a meal (which we can do in tier 3 anyway). There also seems to be some vague advice about not leaving the tier 3 area but as shown when mask use was advised but not compulsory almost everyone ignored it. If I go out of my house for a walk I'll be in a tier 1 area after 300 yards and I'm not going to just walk around town or a busy park instead of the countryside just to avoid breaking vague advice about leaving a tier 3 area.

Are there actually any other rules in place as I'm failing to understand how changing from tier 2 to 3 is going to make any difference to the infection rate.

Agreed. The longer it goes on the more useless the government appear.  

I think you have that about right, Sheffield's change from T2 - T3 had almost no impact at all on me.  I miiight have bouldered indoors with a couple of pals at some point, that about it.

Well, no difference to your life or mine is not the same thing as no difference. Eg. If you have a business that is just about squeaking by and have to close that's going to be pretty significant.

Perhaps if we just take it as read that all the wrangling on the "No more Peak from Saturday" thread applies here too it'll save everyone a bit of time rehashing it all again. (Ha! As if that could ever work!)

I guess people are even less likely to go to pubs and restaurants. Which is a good thing. The reality is the single household thing in T2 gets ignored a fair bit. So at least the closure of wet pubs will help a bit. 

As far as I know in tier 2 you are not supposed to meet anyone not in your household inside except for work/education. So you're not supposed to boulder indoors with friends anyway. Maybe I got that wrong and I've been avoiding climbing with friends for the past few weeks for no reason.

I'm sure if you own a pub that doesn't sell food it will obviously make a difference, although I'd be surprised if many people are going to the pub under tier 2 when you can't meet anyone outside your household there. Other than that are any other businesses affected in any way by the change?

No difference in reality. The knobbers will all be rammed in the pubs being all hail and hearty. 

My brothers father in law died today of Covid-19 in Preston. Fecking nightmare just getting him admitted. Spent 24 hours on a trolley in A+E before getting to a ward. At least his daughter got to see him at the end. Needed full PPE for the end of life visit. 

Its really, really simple to avoid the restrictions you are now having.

 Our village and town on the Yorkshire coast is full to overflowing.  Car parks full and people parking everywhere possible.  The place has never, ever been busier - even on a hot, sunny August Bank Holiday!.

We are in Tier 1

The vast majority of our visitors are coming from places like West Yorkshire, Teesside where they have stricter lockdown rules.  Here a 'devil may care' attitude prevails amongst our many, as they crowd the streets, squeeze past you on the Cleveland Way and elbow past you to get into the pubs, cafés & restaurants.

So what are you waiting for?

In Tier 2 in a properly managed pub you could go in on your own, sit at an isolated table with an adequate degree of spacing  and still enjoy a pint.

In Tier 3 you can't do that.

Yes of course you're quite right, my mistake.  It was the introduction of tier 2 rules that moved me from not going to the wall with pals to not being allowed to go to the wall with pals.

There are two nice pubs fairly close to me that have a fair bit of space outside, they were just about ticking over with people sitting with friends in the garden. Both v conscientious with the social distancing, one in particular had already started doing table service well before it was required and put a little rope & post barrier around the yard with a 'please wait here to be seated sign' so people didn't wander in and mill about looking for their own.

Neither pub does meals so they're both shut now.

I agree that the biggest restriction exists in Tier 2 ie no household mixing indoors including restaurants and pubs.

I do think the garden thing makes a small difference. It's easy to go to visit someone in Tier 2 in the garden planning to wear a coat and then just pop inside because it gets a bit too cold or there's a shower..? suddenly you may as well be in Tier 1. Tier 3 makes it that much more blatant to your neighbours that you are breaking the rules if others are round at your house.

Biggest difference probably general behaviours and perception of risk in a given area.

I just now walked to the pharmacy and passed a pub with a busy beer garden with people crowded around a heater (no one was inside). I hadn't really thought about people being allowed to meet in beer gardens whilst we're still in tier 2 (changes to tier 3 here on Monday).

I suppose stopping that could make a small difference but I still feel if they're going to have different tiers there should be fairly substantial differences or it just seems to be a waste of time. 

Living in Tier 3 Lancashire, the biggest practical difference is that we are advised/asked not to travel to Tier 1 Cumbria. Everyone seems to be ignoring it as far as I can see. I very much doubt that pubs and shops in the Lakes are turning customers away. If you're just travelling up there to go out in the hills, I can't see how it makes any difference at all to the infection rate anyway. 

Just about all kids are at school and everyone who still has a job is doing it. Mostly inside, with the heating on. Tier 3 is nothing like March lockdown. 

We’ve been bumped up to level 2 ( for no obvious reason). Will it make a difference? As all adult interactions on our farm have been socially distanced since February, most friends who come about also come for business reasons and I categorically refuse to isolate my 4 children from their friends (and every parent we know is in agreement), no.

As usual the second wave is not the fault of Governmental incompetence but the fault of the people. It staggers me how so many buy into this (even here).

Some people live alone and might enjoy going to the pub alone just for a change of scenery. It might be their only small pleasure in the winter. If they are out of work it might be their only opportunity to see and hear other humans in a warm and pleasant setting, even if they are strangers and not interacting/conversing at all. Just a bit of “people watching” so as not to feel utterly isolated. 

The main thing tier 3 seems to be missing is any effect on Covid. Rather like The File doesn’t give a shit whether you have called it a VS it’s going to try to hurt you. 
 

The things I’d quite like to know are;

1) how many beds have we got left in hospital with oxygen.
2)with  current rates of doubling when will people die cos there’s no beds with oxygen for them. 
It would be good to rediscover Tier 4 ( the one we know works as we tried it in March) at least one doubling time before the answer to 2. 
 

Tiers 1-3 are just made up shite, covid couldn’t give a toss.

It's both.

Poor rules. Poor communication. Poor enforcement. Poor policy.

Selfish people, fed up with seemingly interminable lockdown due to the failings above.

Regarding your comment about not bouldering indoors with friends, how does this work in practice in an indoor setting? I was climbing with my daughter this week, she’s an adult but lives at home with us so allowed. At the wall we met a number of people we know who were also climbing as couples, Wednesday morning was the usual climbing meet up and without any contact between groups everyone has continued to various degrees, now at no point did we climb with anyone other than our respective partners but we were all in the same hall, in order not to break any rules do we not speak to each other, or if we do, as we did, were we right to wear masks and keep well apart. Tier 2 area by the way.