thumbs up for WHO dietary

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 LeeWood 08 Apr 2020

It's official - sugar and alcohol consumption slammed in the time of coronavirus ! 

Sugar(s):

'WHO recommends that ideally less than 5% of total energy intake for adults should come from free sugars (about 6 teaspoons).'

Alcohol:

'Alcohol is not only a mind-altering and dependence-producing substance, harmful at any level consumed, but it also weakens the immune system. Thus, alcohol use and especially heavy use undermines your body’s ability to cope with infectious disease, including COVID-19.'

http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-emergencies/coronavirus-cov...

Bit if the government is really concerned why don't hey just take it all out of the shops / cut the supply chains ??

8
 AdrianC 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Ever tried taking the kids' sweeties away?

2
 The Lemming 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

>  Bit if the government is really concerned why don't hey just take it all out of the shops / cut the supply chains ??

What about people with a real physical dependence on this drug who need it every day to function?

And to turn this OP into another direction Trump has a hard on for WHO and is threatening to withhold funding to them because they gave bad advice.

Post edited at 08:32
 Ciro 08 Apr 2020
In reply to The Lemming:

> >  Bit if the government is really concerned why don't hey just take it all out of the shops / cut the supply chains ??

> What about people with a real physical dependence on this drug who need it every day to function?

Hand it out at pharmacies to registered addicts? (along with heroin)

 RX-78 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Home brew anyone??

 Michael Hood 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

From a political/social view I believe that the government (whichever party) are quite happy with the masses using alcohol. Keeps them quiet and less likely to protest about anything significant.

Similar to Soma in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

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 mondite 08 Apr 2020
In reply to The Lemming:

> And to turn this OP into another direction Trump has a hard on for WHO and is threatening to withhold funding to them because they gave bad advice.

Well he claims they gave bad advice. He had already been threatening to cut funding and I think paid late at least once.

Its unclear how he thinks it would help. After all if he cuts funding then WHO would need to go to other countries like, ermmm, China to make up for it so could have entirely the opposite effect.

 Lankyman 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Oh dear! I had a glass of wine last night and I work in a supermarket. That's me stuffed.

Oh, and I had apple pie and custard so I'm doubly stuffed!

Post edited at 09:33
 DaveHK 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Pretty much everyone knows that stuff is bad for them. The trick is making them care enough to change their lifestyle before they become a statistic/burden on the state. Not sure that's a battle we're winning.

OP LeeWood 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

> Pretty much everyone knows that stuff is bad for them. The trick is making them care enough to change their lifestyle before they become a statistic/burden on the state. Not sure that's a battle we're winning.

Current info is critical. Diet isn't simply important for general health and wellbeing. It is critical for immune system health - to combat viral and bacterial infection. If that isn't motivation, what is ? With a tested vaccine 18 months away don't hang around for 'them' to keep you safe for this virus or any other; Do now what you know works !

 felt 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Booze. Class A all day long. If you're going to have classes.

andrew breckill 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Too strong an immune response is also an issue with this virus or so I have read. So we be stuffed either way if we are in the percentile that is in the danger zone for adverse effects of this virus.

 Neil Williams 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

> Bit if the government is really concerned why don't hey just take it all out of the shops / cut the supply chains ??

South Africa did.  But the simple answer is "because they don't want a riot on their hands".

Are you abstaining from both, out of interest?  (Doesn't count if you normally do).

Post edited at 13:26
 Tigger 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

I have been pondering why this kind of warning hasn't been more widely publicised already tbh. Three things come to mind that there should be more warnings about:

Alcohol

Sugar

Smoking

Are the government worried about damaging compaines by telling people to cut back and quit?

1
 summo 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Tigger:

Lack of exercise is arguably more damaging than the first two. 

1
 Tigger 08 Apr 2020
In reply to summo:

True, however I still think more could be done to raise awarness of the risks.

 Neil Williams 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Tigger:

Do you think anyone really thinks doing those things aren't risky?  They just accept the risks.

 summo 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Tigger:

> True, however I still think more could be done to raise awarness of the risks.

It's an addiction an escape (binge eating and drinking). They are fully aware of the risks. 

I agree more could be said, but society has drifted away from giving people bad news or reality face to face anymore. Don't want any clinically obese being offended now do we. 

 Ridge 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Ciro:

> Hand it out at pharmacies to registered addicts? (along with heroin)

Are there registered alcoholics? Even if there are there will be far more unregistered.

 Tigger 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Neil Williams:

Yea but it's kinda like:

"I know the risk but what the heck"

However throw into the mix extra warnings in the news and other media. People may start to consider their life style more carfully, also other family members may be more willing to approach them about it.

I recently had a talk with my mum about her drinking habits, she took it really well and we had a productive talk without there being any accusing or defensive behaviour.

I wish such a chat could be had with my sister though, I really worry about the effects her life style will have on her life in another 10 or 20 years However my parents and myself have never found a way of approaching her about it that has any impact (tips?).

 mondite 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> Are there registered alcoholics?

Politicians and journalists?

 didntcomelast 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Champion. I’m sitting in my garden eating a large Easter egg and drinking a large glass of wine.  

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 Ciro 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> Are there registered alcoholics? Even if there are there will be far more unregistered.

If alcohol sales were banned, and the only ways to get some were home brew and registering your addiction, it wouldn't take long for people to be registered. 

Forfeit your driving licence until such time as you've completed a rehab process that involves six months sobriety to join the register, and  receive as much booze as you need to survive the lockdown on the state.

 Tigger 08 Apr 2020
In reply to summo:

People are aware of the risks to some extent, I expect many just bury their heads in the sand. And yes it is unfortunate that the message can't be hammered home a little more bluntly at times, but even then would it fall on deaf ears?

 Ridge 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Ciro:

> If alcohol sales were banned, and the only ways to get some were home brew and registering your addiction, it wouldn't take long for people to be registered. 

> Forfeit your driving licence until such time as you've completed a rehab process that involves six months sobriety to join the register, and  receive as much booze as you need to survive the lockdown on the state.

All that's going to be done in the middle of the Covid crisis?

OP LeeWood 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Tigger:

> However my parents and myself have never found a way of approaching her about it that has any impact (tips?).

Make your own lo-sugar / no-sugar recipes (biscuits/cakes/sweetmeats) and offer her some when you're in company. When she pulls a face (as many do because its not what they're used to) thats your chance to explain why you don't eat standard fayre.

But no - its not easy to witness other family members. just don't feel responsible. As you say, most folk 'cannot see - to see' - its outside their frame of reference

 mondite 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> All that's going to be done in the middle of the Covid crisis?

Could work do two birds with one stone. Complete lockdown enforced by the army with shoot to kill orders. That said I wouldnt want to be the person who after handing out the weapons and ammo then said to the squaddies "oh and now please hand in all your alchohol and we have closed the bars".

Prohibition was highly successful in the US so why not repeat it now?

andrew breckill 08 Apr 2020
In reply to mondite:

<Prohibition was highly successful in the US so why not repeat it now?>

that is a joke right? lol.

Post edited at 17:34
 timjones 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

> Bit if the government is really concerned why don't hey just take it all out of the shops / cut the supply chains ??

 

Live is grim enough  already without the government trying to control ouur diet as well!

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OP LeeWood 08 Apr 2020
In reply to timjones:

> Live is grim enough  already without the government trying to control ouur diet as well!

Grim is relative. Grim is weakening with viral attack so much that you need an oxygen mask - but there aren't enough available in the hospital.

Try a different perspective. End of lockdown - all go out and mix, take up normal life. But no alcohol or sugar trading in the shops. Would that be worth it ?

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 birdie num num 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

I keep my beers in a bucket of iced Dettol

 Ridge 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

> Grim is relative. Grim is weakening with viral attack so much that you need an oxygen mask - but there aren't enough available in the hospital.

> Try a different perspective. End of lockdown - all go out and mix, take up normal life. But no alcohol or sugar trading in the shops. Would that be worth it ?

So giving up alcohol and sugar will end a global pendemic, or is this a thought experiment?

Post edited at 22:10
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 Jon Stewart 08 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

> Bit if the government is really concerned why don't hey just take it all out of the shops / cut the supply chains ??

Because that would be an infringement of liberty that would likely do more harm than good.

If you banned the sale of the things people liked, they'd start to despise, rather than respect the government - that's not we what we need right now.

Personally, I'm drinking more now than normal, because I don't have to get up for work. I like drinking, but I don't like hangovers, so while I drink "to excess" (I way exceed the recommended amount) I don't drink to a level that causes me to feel shit. It may well weaken my immune system, but there is no evidence to convince me that the risk of bad consequences from me drinking is sufficient to justify missing out on the pleasure.

What I would actually do if I was unable to buy alcohol is just sedate myself with other drugs that don't taste as nice and have worse potential for addiction.

Blanche DuBois 09 Apr 2020
In reply to the usual set of UKC self-rightousnumnuts:

Pretty hilarious for a bunch of climbers to be criticising other peoples life choices in terms of how they might affect their health and life expectancy.   And you lot claim "yanks" have no sense of irony.....

OP LeeWood 09 Apr 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> So giving up alcohol and sugar will end a global pendemic, or is this a thought experiment?

I'm sure it will never be more than a thought experiment - because it would of course be v umpopular. 

However as noted recurrently, the majority of virus mortalities are people already weakened by other disease, much of which is lifestyle and diet related. The conclusion is obvious to me. 

Right now, its too late for many - the history is stored in the cells. The virus will continue to advance. But in a longer time span drastic dietary reforms would weaken the epidemic - certainly to manageable proportions.

Put a figure on it. If 2% are mortalities and 80% of these are already 'lifestyle' weak that leaves us with  0.4% 

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OP LeeWood 09 Apr 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Because that would be an infringement of liberty that would likely do more harm than good.

Agreed - if the people are not convinced. In the UK the lockdown was progressive and the gov has always proposed cooperation - in negotation with public willingness.

However our freedom has already been infringed - for the better good. Its all a matter of conviction.

Enjoy your beer but try to be moderate. When the plague advances and your temperaturs start see-sawing (typical onset) cork the bottle ! I've got an unfinished bottle of beer in the fridge - its surely gone flat by now   

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 Tom Valentine 09 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

It'll still be ok for beef carbonnade.

 veteye 09 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

> I'm sure it will never be more than a thought experiment - because it would of course be v umpopular. 

Yet a sensible move would be tax food products more with sugar levels over, say 7.5% and an banded increasing scale above that level. That way those foods would still be available, but it might reduce the amount of sugar that you eat overall. If you wanted to eat more sugary food, such as Christmas cake,(my weakness), then you would pay more.

 Womble 09 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Maybe we can consider that sugar and alcohol are quite enjoyable (in moderation) and if we take enjoyable things away, what is the point in life? 

Sorry if this leads to an existential crisis!

OP LeeWood 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Womble:

In other words:

https://www.organicconsumers.org/blog/apocalypse-now-stop-madness

Quote:

It’s time to acknowledge that if people are healthy, with healthy lungs, a strong immune system, optimum levels of vitamin D in their bodies, and are physically active, it’s unlikely they will die from COVID-19.

It’s time to admit that low-grade industrial food, air pollution, environmental and occupational hazards, and lack of access to healthy food and medical care give rise to the “pre-existing medical conditions” that enable COVID-19 and other chronic diseases to kill people before their time.

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 timjones 10 Apr 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Why the obsession with alcohol and sugar?

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andrew breckill 10 Apr 2020
In reply to timjones:

Dunno, I do not eat refined sugar as a matter of course. As for drink, hic!

OP LeeWood 10 Apr 2020
In reply to timjones:

> Why the obsession with alcohol and sugar?

Whats the use of anything ? Well interestingly - of all those elements which decide our fate as this virus goes round - we have no control over the labs which are developing drugs or vaccines ie. the speed or suitability of solutions, but the WHO web page gives us valuable reassurance of elements over which we have control. Arguably no more important than appropriate sleep, deep breathing or avoiding anti-inflammatories, but something anyone can act upon - with appropriate conviction; Have you got it ??


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