UKH

If you’re reading this, don’t, please stop what you’re doing and watch the Queens funeral. 
 

JS 

has it started ?

Why ?

Barbeg

Or just go climbing for the day and read the article afterwards...

People grieve differently, and some of us will not grieve for the queen at all (either due to indifference to her/ the monarchy, or active dislike). I will probably spend part of the day reading about some technical stuff to get my head round it for work as well. 

Better things to do....

I'm off to the climbing wall....

Barbeg

I'm off to do 18 shortly. Might watch a bit on the tellybox this afternoon.

Rest easy Ma'am. 

I've gone away climbing for all the other royal bank holidays I can remember, but this event is going to be of a different order of magnitude, significance and spectacle; there will probably never be anything like it ever again. I shall be pretty much glued to the TV for the duration. 

I was climbing yesterday and shall be away climbing the rest of the week.

This illustrates why units are important.  

No

All the bleddy shops are shut, what a farce!

Might have a peek. Covid stopped me from either finishing roof on cabin, walking, camping on a remote hill.

This morning I passed a cortege of 6 Silver New Rolls-Royce, all with a 3 digit number plate, like 01E, etc. They were headed by a RR hearse. So presumably heading south down the A1 as they are due to take part in the funeral(?).

I'm not a royalist or religious but finding it very interesting. The choir is magnificent and I'm a sucker for a marching military band. 

Contrary to earlier reports Harry & Andrew are in civvies.

There must be loads of attendees needing the loo.

I always worry that they might drop the coffin.

Well, you stopped watching it to make your post (I assume, I don't know when it's on).  You even spent part of yesterday registering a duplicate account to make your post (not got the courage of your convictions?).  Why?  What an odd thing to do.  Why do you care if other people don't feel the same way you do.

Still, enjoy (if that's the right word).

Is there going to be another Brian May guitar solo from the roof of the palace? If so, please let me know when that's going to happen so I can tune in.

Why?

Hardly a tragic death at 90 odd year old of someone I've never met and gave no relationship with.

Apparently the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy turned up wearing a top hat. Reassuring that he's in touch with the national mood

Why? I have no interest in the monarchy. Why watch the funeral of someone I've never met and who had no impact on my life? I've got better things to do.

Andy F

Any evidence for that conclusion you’ve jumped to?  They could be a serial account switcher; there’s a few users who prefer to engage that way, periodically dissociating themselves from past comments. If you can believe it.

Regardless of whether you're a monarchist or republican or anywhere between, as a spectacle it's quite magnificent and awesome to watch. The UK of GB & NI does this kind of thing better than anywhere else, we should be proud (as a country) of that regardless of our other views.

It may well be spectacular, but it's of zero interest. There's far better things the country could spend billions on. Homeless people, schools, rejoining the EU. 

Andy F

But it appears that the "better things to do" includes posting on this thread - ironic, huh 😁

Because it's a spectacular one off event. A bit like some people with no interest in football normally might watch the world cup final.

There seem to be a lot of "E II R" insignia which are going to have to be changed to "C III R".

And thank goodness the weather's good - can't imagine how horrendous it would be for so many if it was raining heavily.

I'm finding it quite interesting. Shame about some of the crabs at the back being out of step when the gun carriage moved off.

It's hard not to look out for this kind of stuff isn't it....I'd have hated being on Ceremonials in the guards!

But did you notice the synchronised "giving the pallbearers their bearskin hats back" after they'd put the coffin on the guncarriage.

The orb and crown were bothering me. Presumably they were attached somehow??

When will the funeral for the possessive apostrophe be?

Yep. Me too. Can you imagine if anything was dropped? A scratched orb, a smashed coffin, a broken dead monarch...

Gaaahhh! The stuff of nightmares.

Thanks but no thanks. However interesting it may be to others, it holds none for me. There is a world beyond the telly and the news that captivates me far more, that has more meaning for me   and that I would rather immerse myself in. Enjoy your day. 

Crown - didn't look like it, just sitting on the cushion

Sceptre - had fixings like a curtain pole, presumably screwed into the coffin lid - that is a big bit of shiny glass in the end

Orb - looked like it was in a hemispherical sort of frame but more difficult to see, can't have just been sitting there or it would have rolled away

Obviously, it was rather important to keep the coffin pretty level - good job by the pallbearers, ominous responsibility to not make a mistake

Definitely worth a peek,  ended up watching a bit more than I thought I might. Very impressive and as was said, probably a one off in my lifetime. 

I found many in the crowd outside filming the procession on phones instead of just watching it respectfully a bit annoying.

The one I was waiting for was Camilla's car running out of petrol or getting a flat tire 

I noticed that they weren't wearing seat belts - is that legal? I don't think they were "classic" cars from pre-seat belt laws therefore exempt.

In the best tradition of Jolly Jack Tar marching

I have had a very patriotic day. Up at 0430 and after saluting the cement mixer I turned 3 Royal blue bulk bags of ballast into a reinforced retaining wall. I have been listening to some Commonwealth music (Run Tings reggae playlist on Apple Music) to keep monarchical spirits up. I have named the finished wall in hope for a prosperous Charles III reign: it’s called ‘Sweet Caroline’. This afternoon some more somber music to represent the county of Royal Passing (Peatbog Faeries) to accompany the digging of a foundation trench. I will then raise a glass or 8 to my mouth and drink them. Not much time for telly but you can’t fault the spirit.

Am I allowed out on my bike, or will I be arrested by the mourning police?

Could arrest be avoided by wearing black and making sure my cadence is in lockstep with the funeral cortège?

Such a weird opinion, this. Why on earth would I be proud of a country that is the best in the world at hereditary monarchy, the idea that someone having special blood makes them better than me? I agree the UK does it 'better' than anywhere else, but that makes me sad not proud!

Short answer is yes on this occasion.

I understand several pieces of legislation are involved for all exemptions to wearing seatbelts and not just the seatbelt legislation. If nothing else there is an exemption for Royals on duty - this is a State Funeral so exemption rules would apply. However, there are exemptions when travelling with Police and/or Royal Protection Officers on duty under certain circumstances, who themselves have some exemptions whilst on duty. There will probably be more exemptions that would cover the not wearing of seatbelts today.

Edit: if nothing else this “a person riding in a vehicle while it is taking part in a procession organised by or on behalf of the Crown.” would be the case; extract from 1993 seatbelt regs.

I think I've worked out what has seemed slightly odd all day to me. Probably all the photos and footage I have seen of previous state funerals have been in black and white. Somehow I think I was subconsciously expecting funereal grey. But it is all so colourful!

I think the point is not the monarchy but being best at staging big spectacles and pageantry.

Maybe they are just using using them as periscopes.

Our BT box had it shortened to 'The State Fun...'

Imagine my disappointment.

It is a great relief that we remain good at one thing at least still. 

The roads were nice and quiet for a bike ride.

I'm also quite impressed at he clutch control of the hearse drive. Hasn't stalled once.

Was Les Dawson playing the organs in the cathedral?

I was wondering if they have a special manual super low gear box or if you can drive an automatic at low speed for so long.

I don't think he changed gear once. On second thoughts though, I bet it's an automatic 

TBH if I had been driving, all the flowers landing on / bouncing off the vehicle would've given me a slight pause for thought not to mention worry.......however understandable and acceptable today

I have got two dislikes so far. No worries, I am not upset, but if this were the FA or World Cup or Bake Off or Strictly Final, or whatever would it strike you as odd if I said I was not interested and was just getting on with my life, full of other interests, separate from yours?

Exactly

I was Googling the same thing earlier for the Bentley as I didn't think chugging along at a few mph could be good for it.

Being good at staging pageantry is, again, nothing to be proud of for me; the opposite. Good at an enormous waste of money and time, makes you proud to be British...! 

Orb had spike on bottom in a hole.

Crown not attached!

Proud is not the word I would use. 

There was a circular raised plinth of considerable height under the Crown.

All that pomp and ceremony during this cost of living crisis. 

And oh yes almost forgot, just before he flew to the UK Biden announced that he'd definitely use US troops if China invaded Taiwan. Bet you missed that one on the BBC.

Probably the one thing that has pissed me off the most though is the speed at which volunteers came out to provide food and blankets to people in the f*****g queue.

Grrrrrrrrrr

E

How sad.

Meanwhile in North Korea.

A bad day to bury good news?

Fracking and banker's bonuses soon forgotten too?

E

The reverse of my previous observation obviously.

What's the saying?  Two wrongs......

I thought it was a fantastically well done state event. Some very moving monents, lots of symbolism and a sense of tradition, in several impressive locations, with great music (aside from the organ playing when they were leaving the Abbey...) with the armed forces' performance really adding to the weight of the occasion. 

Was a moving event, and I really valued it. 

If you liked it, great. I didn't watch Diana's funeral, the Queen Mother's or the Queen's. That sort of pageantry make me sick. There are so many enormous issues facing the UK and spaffing billions on one family is wrong IMHO.

Andy F 

It has been well covered by the BBC.

The BBC coverage of the funeral was absolutely superb too - as one would expect.

Also an excellent and balanced discussion of the week's events and how they relate tk the state of the nation on R4's PM programme.

The BBC may not be perfect and it hasn't got everything right this week, but it really is something this country should still be proud of.

You might as well give up on any hope of that changing any time soon. As recent events show Brand Windsor is still firmly in the saddle.

I think it was! When the coffin was brought to Windsor and laid in the chapel, during the opening choir piece you could see a man in morning suit and white gloves who appeared to removing something from the base of the crown, orb & sceptre, presumably some sort of fixing screws.

Rejoining the EU? You’re clearly mad 

JS

Rejoining the EU is the only way to secure our future. Brexit is a complete failure and will always be a stain on the country.

Andy F

You might enjoy reading Julius Evola. I’d recommend starting with Ride the Tiger and moving onto Revolt Against the Modern World.    
 

Meanwhile there’s a man dressed in a dog mask and a pair of speedos doing coke and barking at passers by. 

JS

Roll up yer sleeves lads..... TBF what we really really need is more petty bureaucracy in our lives. Best ignored and back to the wake for me. 
 

JS

Millions yes, but billions? Maybe over enough years but the enormous issues facing the UK are the responsibility of the government, and with the current lot in power I think both you and I will be disappointed (although not surprised) to see virtually nothing done about those.

The issues around the monarchy are trivial in impact on the population in comparison to those issues. Also, although I don't expect sudden radical change, I suspect that Charles will slim down the Royal Family and William after him will probably do that even more, so although the basic issue will remain, its financial scope/impact etc will reduce.

Its a few million, not billions.  Small beer compared with what was staffed away on the PPE purchase debacle.

I thought it was very well put together....there was representation from around the world and strong references to the commonwealth and voluntary services etc....

The monarchy needs reform and I hope Charles does it.... serious scaling back and financial reform. That said....it is part of UK....I'm not especially a supporter but the history and constitution should support events like today. Organising an event like that in less than 2 weeks is an excellent effort, we do it well....military ceremony but not a show of force like in other countries.

I agree. All those in the queue were there voluntarily, except maybe the kids? and were perfectly capable of bringing their own provisions. Would the volunteers have been as quick to provide food and blankets ro a homeless person outside their house?

It was Nelson Mandela who said something along the lines of

'The sign of a great country is not how it treats those at the top of society, but how it treats those at the bottom' 

Wise words indeed.

Well the day off gave me time to collect and pulp a 30l barrel worth of plumbs for making slivovitz.

And 20l of apples for Calvados 

Some of us can keep more than one thought in our head at a time...

They are all automatic. Its easy to keep to very low speed in an auto; you'd destroy the clutch in short order driving something of that weight at funeral speeds. You can get hearses with a lower final drive for extra crawl-ability, but you need a lot of pennies to persuade Bentley or Jaguar to do it.

The Royal Hearse is a Jag. (Visibly liveried as such on the the rear.)

I suppose, by trying to dismiss socially valuable initiatives as "petty bureaucracy", you are gleefully anticipating the end of some hugely successful EU initiatives. International call and data roaming is already history but we're still working on the Working Time Directive and I'm sure there are other 'benefits' in the post-Brexit pipeline. Which is to say nothing of the prospect of tearing up the initially British-led and widely valued ECHR. Presumably all so workers can be forced to be more 'productive' at little to no extra cost to your paymasters?

Was at work today, doing something useful and productive.

Not one of my colleagues or customers mentioned the funeral, which I admit was surprising.

Lunchbreak walk was pleasant because it was so quiet.

It is indeed, which is why i listed Bentley and Jag, (Bentley being the other car marque alluded to in the post I responded to, and while not the hearse, is the car being used in a similarly slow role, and also available in hearse version). The hearse used in Scotland was a merc E class based one.

So that's inheritance tax AND seatbelt laws eh?  I'm liking the sound of this monarchy lark...how do I apply?

Hello!
A very sad event, a whole era has gone. It is interesting to watch their whole family and the reign of the new king.

Jarringly (I thought), the hearse used from Balmoral to Edinburgh was very visibly logoed on the driver's-side rear window with the name of the undertaker's company involved, namely William Purves. I thought that looked remarkably cheap!

I had no intention of watching it really, but we spent the day with my daughter and grand daughters, and since my daughter had a spell in the army cadets (and considered the military) I think she felt a certain draw towards it, so we had it on in the background.

She also wanted my eldest grand daughter to have watched it, so that there was a historical  / memory reference point there.

My daughter is slightly over on the monarchist side of the spectrum, whilst I'm over on the republican side.  I see it as my duty to be the alternative influence on the girls and lure them over to the republican side with facts and common sense.  But we'll see how that goes.  Right now the eldest loves the pomp and ceremony of it all.  

The youngest one is too interested in Paw Patrol.

Whereas, the Royal Hearse used today didn't even have number plates.

great publicity for William Purves, but I thought if they have an official royal hearse (Jag as described), they would have used it in Scotland as well. And it was odd logo-ing it up. I put it down to a publicity stunt on the part of WP, because it appeared to have been taken off later on, and i cant remember ever seeing logo-ed up hearses ever before. and i used to work in the funeral industry, albeit not as a funeral director.

Went to the end of the road to watch them drive past - main royals whizzed by and then the Queen at a more leisurely pace. Also dignitaries, presumably on way back to airports and several coaches of the guards, all glued to their phones…. and a spare hearse following!  Think the Queen then took the scenic route and everyone else went down the M4. 

Are you sure she was driving?

Errrr the Brexit humour vacuum strikes again.

Hannah Arendt had some good stuff to say about bureaucracy and the banality of evil.
 

‘the greater the bureaucratization of public life, the greater will be the attraction of violence. In a fully developed bureaucracy there is nobody left with whom one can argue, to whom one can represent grievances, on whom the pressures of power can be exerted. Bureaucracy is the form of government in which everybody is deprived of political freedom, of the power to act; for the rule by Nobody is not no-rule, and where all are equally powerless we have a tyranny without a tyrant.’

While rough sleepers were moved away for fear of ruining the look of the occasion.

I'm sorry. You should have mentioned that, despite there being no clues in the text, your post was intended to be humorous. All I saw was an unveiled attempt to reinforce a UKIP-style stereotype of the EU being associated with increased bureaucracy. I'm sure you're capable of much better than that if you were to express what you actually think instead of what you're being paid to spew.

The youngest one is too interested in Paw Patrol.

I love Paw Patrol. Not as much as Ben and Holly though.

I watched the funeral today as it’s not something I will ever see again. It’s not often possible to witness something you know is a one time event, whether you’re a Royalist or a Republican. She also seemed like a bloody nice person who gave her entire adult life to serving her country. IMHO that deserves a little respect.

2 facts which impressed me:

1. her 1st Prime Minister - Winston Churchill was born in 1874, her last Prime Minister - Liz Truss was born in 1975 - over 100 years apart
2. acts she saw at Royal Variety performances ranged from Laurel & Hardy through to Lady Gaga

Sigh, I voted remain and it was Andy F who brought Brexit into a thread about the Queen which I cracked a joke about him being mad to suggest we should rejoin the EU. You piped up with some BS and then come at me with a ‘paid to say’ accusation. I’ve zero interest in debating Brexit or human rights on here with you. 

As a complete aside, I notice that your username is a tortology, do I win £5?

Possibly, but you lose £10 for your spelling.

Watched a little bit but it wasn't my thing  so played on fortnite instead . 

Sorry, please enlighten me. I can't see what I've spelled incorrectly. Although the second comma should probably have been a full stop.

Tautology, I think

No they weren't. 

Thank you, oh well that's 5 numpty points instead of the fiver - so it goes (as the Tralfamadorians would say).

Aw too late, I missed it. Was out climbing all day. I'm sure I can catch the highlights on iPlayer though? Any particular bits I should check out?

Nah,

he was unsticking the purple Duct Tape!

Especially with cruise control.

I have little to say to the "antis" on this thread. What I will say however is that I found the whole event moving. The professionalism displayed by the service personnel, police and ALL others involved was second to none. In particular the bearer party were superb, given that the eyes of the world were on them. Had they faltered then that would have probably been what the whole event would have been remembered for. The crowds were respectful as were those in The Queue and filing past the coffin.

I think it is so sad that others should even suggest that we abolish the monarchy and abandon such ceremony. To do so would be to deny and write off our history.

Yes, this country has problems. Which nation doesn't. Many have far, far worse along with far worse systems of government. We are fortunate in that we have choice. We choose our government, we can choose whether or not to attend funerals of heads of state or grieve for them. Nobody is compelled to do so at the point of a gun.

Whatever problems we have I do not believe that such matters need to overpower us to the extent that they are the only things that we are permitted to focus on and render our lives an existence of misery adorned in sackcloth and ashes. That is the road to totalitarianism.

Are you recommending Evola or just suggesting Spidermonkey might enjoy him?

They're attached. I believe they fell off and into the gutter at George VI's funeral because they weren't, thus now are.  The coffin's pulled by sailors because the horses pulling Queen Victoria's bolted.  Slowly but surely things are being improved.

I actively didn't watch it; I refuse to support or respect the basis for the institution, so why would I? 

I assume you must believe in God then, as the basis of our Monarchy is that the position of King/Queen is a divine right, so selected by God.
Sounds a bit rum to me, but hey ho.

The bit worth checking was when they commentated on the two corgis: introduced as ‘Sandie and Mick’, which is my wife and me !  

Corgis spelling: Muick and Sandy, but that knowledge would lessen the comedic impact…

We went for a walk at the beach. Not too busy for a bank holiday, and the roads were pretty quiet.

My GF watched the highlight/repeat later on but it all looked very similar to the last 10 days to me.

I keep hearing this but I’m not so sure, in most walks of life stepping aside to allow new blood through would be considered a positive. As the Archbishop of Canterbury pointed out clinging to power is nothing to be admired, that she did suggests she enjoyed the role. As for her niceness, after 96 years in the spotlight the only examples people can provide for this are a few occasions when she acted in a civil manner towards other humans rather than behaving like a rude, entitled arse which people seem to assume she would. I’m not saying she wasn’t nice nor that she didn’t do the job provided in an exemplary way but I think we might be over egging her personal qualities a bit.

It's likely up there with Brexit as amongst the most significant events of the last 20 years

Who’s this ‘so many people dismissing this as unimportant’?  Predicted to be the most watched piece of television ever , and monarchists out number royalists by about 2:1. No chance is the monarchy going. 

Does anyone know if they did? (I didn't watch all of it). Certainly the hearse was a dark colour with no plates on it.

I think there's a typo there.

On your last point, I'm not sure. These are very early days of a new era and public opinion can change quickly. The Queen kept the monarchy tethered to an earlier era, which I think was part of the appeal. Going forward, nobody will be able to pull that off.

It's not like she'll be bothered. Though it was an amazing spectacle to see.

If anybody is interested worth looking up on Linked in the cv for Andrew Vern Stokes he is the Garrison Sergeant who is a creator and organsier of National and State Ceremonial events.

he has also won a BAFTA.

He was the guy marching up and down the Mall etc licking everybody into shape.

It shows the link between these ceromonies and our strength in respect of the Arts and Theatre. The breaking of the wand being straight out of Harry Potter........

What I found interesting watching the funeral, was the stark contrast between the tradition, pageantry, orders (garter etc.), discipline and respect on show in buildings of huge significance to our history and development of our democracy compared to the actions of the people we vote to represent us in parliament. Chalk and cheese

It certainly made me think that republicanism is probably not the panacea some think it would be, regardless of the ability to vote someone else in. 

Lord Chamberlain and the Duke of Norfolk organised the funeral, and I thought to myself (admittedly, a bit ridiculously) would our energy security be in the mess it's in if it was left to him to run?  

I think what I am trying to say is that the monarchy appears far harder to penetrate/ influence from outside due to centuries of tradition compared to our politicians who will sell us out to the highest bidder. Simplistic observation with numerous faults but one I had none the less.

I think you mean monarchists Vs Republicans 🙂

I was working yesterday (finished the shift with a stabbed dog walker) but recorded the funeral and watched it when I got home. Certainly moving and for the life of me I can’t think of any other event that’d provide such a one shot hit of soft power projection. 

I’m still on the republican side of things but with a much smaller R.

That is ridiculous, they are both largely ceremonial roles and these event have been planned years ago.

We all know both Jimmy Saville and Jefferey Epstein were guests at Balmoral.

We can applaud and appreciate a job well done without loosing perspective. It's been a strange week but I expect normal service to resume soon from most UKCers.

Since this has been done at previous monarch's funerals then it's more likely that it was "straight out of reality" and into the Harry Potter books rather than the other way round.

Has someone died recently? 😀

haha, yes ridiculous. But - "years of planning" for meticulous execution sounds just like what the doctor ordered for most of the things wrong in this country don't you think?

re Jimmy Savile and Epstein - not just the odd royal, but plenty of politicians as well. 

As for loosing (sic) perspective. Not really. I was clear that my points were simplistic and not a solution and just observing the contrast between the UK pulling off a huge event with military precision and unifying the bulk of the country in grief compared to the shambles that is often on display in the HoC  and the entrenched division of politics in this country (as regularly displayed on these forums as normal service resumes) 

+1.…..fully agree with this....likewise the queen sitting alone at her husband's funeral during covid times. Leadership by example.....whilst our elected leaders were having a piss up...

How do you know that it's been done before? It could have been made up for yesterday, for all anybody really knows.

How 'traditional' is a motorized Jaguar hearse?

According to this, it symbolises the end of the lord chamberlain’s service to the monarch. Last seen at the last funeral of a monarch, in 1952. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/19/what-is-the-wand-of-office-...

I think there is a lot of hyperbole in there, reading much more into something than is really there.

There were cockups that were quickly overlooked, and this claim 'unifying the bulk of the country in grief' is wishful thinking. Most people have been respectful because someone has died but that doesn't mean we've been grieving.

Hmmm.

Prince Edward and the fake Sheikh.

Prince Andrew and the Kazakhstan dictators son purchase of his old house for a rather generous amount.

King nee Prince Charles and the bags of cash for his charity. The current (although I suspect rapidly being dropped) investigation into the Princes Foundation and the cash for honours scheme.

I have to say that the one thing that makes me waver in my opposition to the idea of an unelected head of state, is the sight of the utter shitstains that we have elected to run the country. 

bagpipes in WC and reaction of Emma the pony were most moving moments for me..  

I wouldn't be so sure. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/26/prince-charles-calls-for-in...

I get your point about the government. The royal family has means to conceal a great deal more from the public.

Yes, I read explanations of it yesterday. But, since this has not been seen in public before, there is no way for you and me to be sure that it's not in fact a newly made-up 'tradition.'

A lot of the royal/aristocratic flummery - awesome though it all is to watch - could in fact be made up. We just don't know.

I thought the bagpipes fading out (as a result of the piper slowly walking away) was a lovely effect. I hate bagpipes normally - but I now think I'll have the same thing done when I take my own Final Ride.

So do you only accept something has happened if you've personally witnessed it? There must be a lot of history you don't believe ever happened!

Best thing you can do with the bagpipes!

I think they nicked that one from Dumbledore’s funeral 

There is quite of lot of hyperbole, that’s fair. But that was my feeling watching the funeral - how can we get this so right, yet cock up so much other stuff? 
 

In response to various Royals acting dishonourably… I’m sure it’s happened since Alfred…not many angels agreed. but the (now nearly totally impotent) autocracy of the Monarchy is still an impressive beast to me. I like its history and traditions and respect those that look to uphold those traditions even though we have moved on to a democracy. 
 

Yes,should be republican Vs royalists  

Agree about the Queens ability to keep it tethered. But there’s other things at play, for instance if there was ever a vote , the most republican demographic would hardly bother voting, unlike the most royalist demographic. The monarchy does know the shifting views and will make some adaptations.  As, mainly republicans have pointed out, they are experts at maintaining the system. 

I prefer them to the daily Anglo Saxon natter torture

Surely it's all made up? The only question is whether it was made up recently, or longer than some arbitrary time ago.

It's nothing to do with me personally having seen anything. But I hope you can see that you have no real way of knowing whether or not any of the royal 'traditions' are sanctified by long history - or just made up recently as part of the overall mystique 

For example, on the specified 'breaking of the wand' business being discussed here, what's the earliest believable historical record which exists?

Agreed. And I think that's an interesting question, don't you?

I had exactly the same thoughts.

Interested to know how you draw that conclusion.

No idea about the wand but a lot of it dates back to Victoria since she didnt like the previous approach. She made it more militaristic rather than aristocratic.

I was only using the wand breaking it as an example of how both sides can use tradition in either a ceremony or making a great story which has sold well globally and kept loads of Britains thespians employed.

A bit like The myth of King Arthur s round table of knights and the Knights of the Carter. Try Reading Dominic Sandbrooks excellent book on the soft power and wealth created in the U.K. by such links.

This is why I suggested reading Evola, he believes that monarchy is chosen by god and there is a natural order of humanity which provides stability when adhered to through traditional practices. On one hand I like tradition and on the other I balk at the idea of being a bloody peasant. 

Not really TBH. Made up recently, long ago, or most likely Victorian, what does it matter? It's theatre to keep the masses entertained and distracted from what the powerful are up to. Bread and circuses...

That natural order exists among the 'races' for Evola, though doesn't it?  It is no surprise why he tried Germany in the 1930s when he decided the Italian fascists weren't giving him enough respect.

Yes some pretty disagreeable ideas in his books to say the least 

That sounds worryingly like the Hindu caste system, or the kind of thinking that leads to racism or thinking boulderers are an inferior species.

I will Google for some reading material, unless you could suggest a book.

I was thinking that earlier, but it's now just the circus without the bread for the masses.

Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of respect for the Queen and actually found the funeral fascinating and oddly (well, odd for me) moving.

However it's an anachronism that feeds the fantasy that we're still a mighty Empire that the world trembles before, which prevents us from growing up and becoming a modern, functioning democracy.

The monarchy is by no means the worst thing about the UK, (the current political class who do what their corporate and oligarch masters tell them, FPTP, cronyism, lies, the all powerful media for a start), but it does reinforce the idea that certain people are above the law and must be bowed down to.

I'm not sure what the way forward is, (we'd vote in someone called Shitty McShitface as elected head of state because it would be a laugh), but I think the time has come to let the monarchy fade away.

It matters to me since, 1) I would like to know, and 2) if there are _very_ long-standing historical precedents for particular practices, then it's likely that they've survived for a good societal reason. (I'm perfectly happy that you take a different view.)

An example of a phoney and relatively recently made-up tradition is all the flim-flam used to justify fox hunting. That's an historical fake - but it gets deployed to powerful effect.

Because at general and local election time, the younger you are the less likely you are to vote. Also, the younger you are the more likely you are to want an elected head of state rather than a monarchy (see Statista screenshot below).  

Great post. ^This.

Sadly I think killing stuff for fun is pretty much ingrained in the human condition, and has been since the first hominid picked up a jawbone and thought “I wonder what I can batter with this?”.

You don't get more traditional than that.

Evola was a massive fascist mind you

Does it really promote that idea of a mighy Empire? Apart from the obvious connections with Canada, Aus and NZ I would suggest not.Those days are well and truly gone.Empire is rarely taught these days at schools.

Its going to fade away anyway...they are all getting older ( average age is now in the 60's)--- unless they bring Zara Phillips in to do more stuff.

And yet here is the paradox, the demand from community groups, etc for a Royal visit has not declined at all.The palace apparently gets the same number of requests as 10 years ago.Most of their visits are to community groups, charities,industrial estates and offices.

I'd say it's obvious, we are good at these one off performative events but not the duller stuff that takes sustained effort and really benefits the population. There are other countries who are good at these events  but don't generally prosper (may not be to our taste but it's all there, the outfits, the precision).

Not sure how much good it does do us, it's obviously a distraction, and I'm not sure this obsession with the past is too healthy..... we are the country with a cos play Victorian for Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

This 'soft power' might be of some benefit, but not much IMO.... my boiler can't run on it, the gas reserves other countries have stored may be more useful!

I don't see this as an argument for the monarchy, quite the opposite. 

The 'shitstains' we have in government are basically down to us, collectively. The public voted for them and they are from our society. Personally I do believe that our politicians reflect the growing number of chancers in our society who do prosper, to the detriment to the common good.

It's easy for us to put the monarch on a pedestal, they don't get their hands dirty in politics. People can assign their own values to the monarch, than claim this is the true 'us'...... not the politicians we elected. It's a comfort blanket when what we need to do is get off the sofa and sort the house out!

Remember those ugly gas holders all over London? there is a famous one at the Oval cricket ground. Some went straight up, some went up in a spiral. Pretty much all redundant now but offered great storage around the time of the Queens coronation (a well done one off performative event). 

The Kings coronation will be another well done one off performative event, but you will be worried that your boiler might not have any gas available to run it and keep you warm as most of those gasholders were sold off to developers for building flats and not replaced.

Ergo - the monarchy and the institutions around it still consistently knocking it out of the park with their soft power and pageantry, the people that run the country in the HoC still f*c king everything up

(please realise I am not being that serious)

My post wasn't a serious suggestion of a reason to keep the monarchy! 🙂

I just thought it was ironic how awful our elected leaders are in comparison to someone who got handed the job because of who her father was. That's not how it's supposed to turn out.

That's fine I just felt like putting my thoughts on it all down with my morning brew.

Her job was rather easier though.  Its a lot easier when your job is specifically not making those hard political decisions.

Oh yes, no doubt there. I was just referring to her general behaviour and honesty.

Saville was also a much more frequent guest of the NHS - should we get rid of that as well ??