UKH

/ “The Earth’s magnetic field is acing up...”

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Bob Kemp - on 10 Jan 2019
mrphilipoldham - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

That’ll be everyone using their compasses far too much. We need to go all electric!

DerwentDiluted - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

Maybe the burgeoning Flat Earth movement is creating such a density of density that it is exerting a gravitational pull on the liquid magma in the earths core.

summo on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

Their date line map of the pole shows a clear pattern. Perhaps they can model it. You'd anticipate it to continue rapidly over the polar, then progressively slow down again in a few decades. The mysteries of the outer core. But then is the north pole really the south, hence why northern polarity compass needles are attracted to it. We just named it that way to save confusion!

The bigger question would be is this rotation over the pole part of a slower reversal over several thousands of years, or because of other factors like the earths rotation are pole reversals more rapid, as having poles nearer or on the equator defies what we  currently understand of geophysics. 

Post edited at 08:37
Stichtplate on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

We appear to be overdue a complete reversal of magnetic poles during which time the Earths protective magnetic shield is reduced by as much as 95%. I know this wouldn't be good for electronics or cancer rates but would this be a mass extinction type event?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

summo on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

I think population reduction is possible, but not mass extinction. There have been several reversals in the time since the north American plate departed Eurasia, so far mass extinctions have been attributed to other factors. 

It might not be good for us daylight inhabiting furless humans. But plenty well protected and nocturnal creatures might thrive in comparison. 

The question would be how long it takes before the protection returns, it's likely to be longer than a few summers. Perhaps the preppers need to start stockpiling factor 50. 

Post edited at 09:50
Stichtplate on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to summo:

I was expecting Wintertree to have replied by now. Perhaps he’s just nipped out to Boots?

wercat on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

First sunspots disappear then this?  it must be an alien conspiracy

Perhaps tinfoil, which is new for this reversal instance, might be our friend at last

Stichtplate on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to wercat:

> First sunspots disappear then this?  it must be an alien conspiracy

> Perhaps tinfoil, which is new for this reversal instance, might be our friend at last

I’m outing you as an active agent for Bacofoil.

summo on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

> I’m outing you as an active agent for Bacofoil.

Do you recommend i go long or short on aluminium futures? 

I suspect wintertree is in negotiations with Elon Musk to hire an underground boring machine. 

wercat on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

I'm afraid not - I prefer Mu-Metal

Luke90 on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

> We appear to be overdue a complete reversal of magnetic poles

I think it's a more random process than that kind of statement suggests. It could start tomorrow or it could be stable for tens of millions of years yet.

ianstevens - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

> We appear to be overdue a complete reversal of magnetic poles during which time the Earths protective magnetic shield is reduced by as much as 95%. I know this wouldn't be good for electronics or cancer rates but would this be a mass extinction type event?

We are not "overdue", just the current orientation has held for longer than average. The mean periodicity of magnetic reversals is not predictive!

deepsoup - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

> ... but would this be a mass extinction type event?

We've already got one of those well underway..

Stichtplate on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

> We are not "overdue", just the current orientation has held for longer than average. The mean periodicity of magnetic reversals is not predictive!

Strewth! You science types don’t allow much for conversational English.

I might mention to a mate that I’m ‘overdue’ going out for a pint, the mean periodicity of which is also not predictive and is itself entirely dependent on Mrs Stichtplate’s permission, a factor which (as far as I can tell) is entirely random in nature.

 

Lusk - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

"It is currently making a beeline for Siberia."

Putin up to no good again!

ianstevens - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Strewth! You science types don’t allow much for conversational English.

> I might mention to a mate that I’m ‘overdue’ going out for a pint, the mean periodicity of which is also not predictive and is itself entirely dependent on Mrs Stichtplate’s permission, a factor which (as far as I can tell) is entirely random in nature.

Haha, fair point. Somewhat stuck in a marking hole at the moment so an insight into my current mentality... But yes, your point is correct - the current magnetic orientation has been the situation for an above-average period. Hope that pint comes your way

wercat on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to wercat:

> First sunspots disappear then this?  it must be an alien conspiracy


Arghh!! Minds Vast and Cool and Unsympathetic ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46811618

wintertree - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to summo:

> I suspect wintertree is in negotiations with Elon Musk to hire an underground boring machine. 

There’s been no digging here.  Absolutely no sightings of me shuffling dirt down out of my trousers legs on the old morning constitutional.   

No researching of EMP protection strategies either.  Normally solar induced electromagnetic effects are only a concern over the physical scale of power grid transmission lines.  I don’t know how much smaller that scale gets without a magnetosphere.

I don’t think it’s much beyond current science, engineering and GDP to build a planetary magnetic field generator, although it’d be much easier without those pesky oceans straddling the equator...

DancingOnRock - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to wercat:

> First sunspots disappear then this?  it must be an alien conspiracy

> Perhaps tinfoil, which is new for this reversal instance, might be our friend at last

Does sunspot activity have any effect on geomagnetic field? 

wercat on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to DancingOnRock:

the impact of solar activity as a whole at the earth's surface is affected by the field.  The sun has been behaving unusually in the last years.

The aliens would certainly play with the field to soften us up before hitting us with soler affects

Post edited at 12:26
Jim Fraser - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

In September 2018 there was a revision of the 2015 model published and information is available on the BGS website. 

Bob Kemp - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Lusk:

> "It is currently making a beeline for Siberia."

> Putin up to no good again!

He would of course put it down to his magnetic attraction...

Bob Kemp - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

Has anyone any thoughts about the navigational implications? I could be wrong but don't think there will be many for most of us outside the north polar area, except maybe the OS might have to change that little indicator in the map margins a bit more often!

Post edited at 16:24
ScraggyGoat on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to Jim Fraser:

The British Geological Survey Global Geomagnetic Modal, or BGGM for short is available to licence holders, Though I've not tried to get hold of it as 'Joe Public'..............but a complete polarity reversal might require a bit more work on the model.

I havent checked if I need to update, just maybe software support have done it for me...........was that a UV roasted pig going past the window?

Post edited at 18:49
Jim Fraser - on 10 Jan 2019
In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Most of NG is very close to 0deg variation between mag and grid. Magnetic variation east of Grid is already a reality in East parts of Harris or North Uist.

1
Captain Fastrousers - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> Has anyone any thoughts about the navigational implications? 

Yep, it won't make any difference for us punters wandering around misty fells. 

It is significant for GPS systems and satellite navigations, so if you fly, buy stuff that's come in by ship, watch TV etc it's important but in no way that you will personally notice. (Unless you work in satellite control or related industries) 

 

 

Jim Fraser - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Captain Fastrousers:

> ...  it won't make any difference for us punters wandering around misty fells. 

Maybe not during the next couple of years. However, Brits have all learned how to do magnetic variation with mag west of grid. And it was 11 deg when I was a kid and 0 deg now. With the Magnetic North Pole heading toward Siberia at about 4 times the speed it moved when my father learned navigation, it may not be long before a significant mag 3 or 4 deg EAST of grid is upon us.

1
Captain Fastrousers - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Jim Fraser:

Well, that's true; to be specific I meant that the updated magnetic field model won't affect normal mountain navigation.

It would be interesting to know how accurate the temporal magnetic correction they used to print on OS maps (I assume they still do?) was over the last few decades 

Jim Fraser - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Captain Fastrousers:

I was recently showing people older OS maps with a military overprint of lines of equal mag variation. An interesting approach and of course it was much more important when it was over ten degrees.

what the hex on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

The article and map seem to be at odds with each other. The text says that the magnetic north is moving towards Siberia and has recently crossed the international date line but the map shows it going the other way?

CurlyStevo - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to what the hex:

Did you have one too many tipples before writing this? The map shows the mag north moving from Canada toward Siberia passing close by to true north, which is also what the text says.

what the hex on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Mag north is travelling East on the map (not West), over the top of Greenland - but I suppose it will still reach Siberia eventually, with the world being spherical.

Edit: Actually, as mag north is "above" true north I suppose you could argue it's travelling West!

Post edited at 06:47
summo on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Captain Fastrousers:

> It is significant for GPS systems and satellite navigations, so if you fly, buy stuff that's come in by ship, watch TV etc it's important but in no way that you will personally notice. (Unless you work in satellite control or related industries) 

How does the earths magnetic field impact satellite driven GPS navigation system? 

Bob Kemp - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to summo:

My understanding is that GPS systems are independent, but they need to be assigned a magnetic variation for many purposes (e.g flight navigation).

summo on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> My understanding is that GPS systems are independent, but they need to be assigned a magnetic variation for many purposes (e.g flight navigation).

Perhaps. From my understand they only need magnetic referencing to show orientation when stationary. Once moving they'd still keep showing direction of travel. I just vision that the earth has not changed, nor the satelittes, so their primary location function won't be impacted. 

As i said yesterday, it's a pretty clear pattern and would no doubt make a nice curve on a graph. It can't be that hard to programme an estimate of the next 10-20 years, as it's likely to quicken again until past the pole. Then any recalculation is just adjusting the error of the error so to speak. 

deepsoup - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to summo:

> How does the earths magnetic field impact satellite driven GPS navigation system? 

I could be wrong but I think that would be down to space 'weather' rather than anything to do with navigation directly.  What the Sun is doing determines what gets thrown at us, but the Earth's magnetosphere has a profound effect on what happens when it hits.

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/impacts/space-weather-and-gps-systems

summo on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

Yeah. But that's cmes etc.. Not magnetic variation at the poles.

If we have a magnetic reversal and the predicted or estimated 90% loss of protection from space and solar radiation etc., we'd have bigger problems to worry about than aircraft navigation systems. 

Bob Kemp - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> My understanding is that GPS systems are independent, but they need to be assigned a magnetic variation for many purposes (e.g flight navigation).

Some info on this here - 

https://flightlevelsonline.com/2013/summer-2013/garmin-tips-and-tricks-gps-and-magnetic-variation/

CurlyStevo - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to what the hex:

> Mag north is travelling East on the map (not West), over the top of Greenland - but I suppose it will still reach Siberia eventually, with the world being spherical.

> Edit: Actually, as mag north is "above" true north I suppose you could argue it's travelling West!

I didn't mention east / west, so not really relevant to my post.

It's heading towards Siberia. Siberia is a big place but depending which part you are talking about its taking approximately the fastest way there.

Maybe this will help

https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/polar/northpole.htm

Billhook - on 11 Jan 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

The only thing we'll notice is having to add or subtract a few degrees on our compasses to compensate.

 

Keep Calm and Carry On.

 

 


This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.