/ Thatcher & Brexit

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lone - on 10 Mar 2019

Hi all,

I'm wondering, how do you think Margaret Thatcher would have tackled Brexit compared to Theresa May ? 

The backstop; would Thatcher have resolved this by now ?

L

1
john arran - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

She would not have allowed the ERG to effectively vet her every move.

Wanderer100 - on 10 Mar 2019
birdie num num - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

She would have been operating with the grounding of a robust majority and the confidence of the utmost loyalty from her ministers. There would be no chink for the EU to exploit. 

4
Jon Stewart - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

I don't think Mrs T would have done any better. I suspect she was probably too savvy to get into this kind of mess in the first place.

The Brexit disaster hasn't come about because Theresa May is incompetent. It's merely the logical conclusion of setting up two parallel systems of democracy that aren't aligned (perhaps that makes them not parallel?). There's the direct democracy of the referendum which wanted Brexit (by a whisker); and the representative democracy that thinks it's a shit idea.

May has decided to try to take the direct democracy seriously, yet she doesn't want to drive the economy off a cliff. So she's attempting to achieve mutually incompatible aims. 

I suppose you could argue that this is in itself incompetence, but what are her options? Ignore the vote (national political unrest and personal political suicide) or drive the economy off a cliff (national political unrest and personal political suicide)?

A bit more detail on how the UK's "negotiating position" is to demand incompatible aims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agZ0xISi40E

L Pefa on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

Thatcher was a great liar and thief but also loved to spread as much pain and suffering to the British working class as she could get away with. So given her love of making British workers unemployed and if you believe all the fear mongering from those who love the EU dictatorship about brexit being the end of the world economically then if that were true she would happily throw the country on the scrapheap just like she did to millions of workers and communities  

31
john arran - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Pefa:

>  if you believe all the fear mongering from those who love the EU dictatorship about brexit being the end of the world economically 

This is the kind of Sun-reader hyperbole that will stop people taking anything else you say seriously, even if it may contain some worthwhile observations mixed in with this guff.

2
HansStuttgart - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

with respect to negotiating with the EU: just as terrible as May. Look at the Brughes speech, it is a similar confrontational attitude that doesn't work when you are negotiating from a position of weakness.

With respect to matters in the UK: much better. She probably would be convinced of her views on what is best for the country to simply ignore an advisory 50%-50% referendum.

1
HansStuttgart - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I suppose you could argue that this is in itself incompetence, but what are her options? Ignore the vote (national political unrest and personal political suicide) or drive the economy off a cliff (national political unrest and personal political suicide)?

She could have learned before invoking a50 that the way she worked with the EU at the home office (opt-out from all integration, opt back in if you like the plan) was not going to work for the full membership. May's belief that the UK is important enough for the EU to be allowed cherrypicking is at the core of brexit.

It would also have helped a lot if she would have had positive views of forreigners. Just imagine the scenario where May would have argued from day 1 that brexit needs to happen but freedom of movement will stay no matter what.

2
jkarran - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to HansStuttgart:

> It would also have helped a lot if she would have had positive views of forreigners. Just imagine the scenario where May would have argued from day 1 that brexit needs to happen but freedom of movement will stay no matter what.

Ah... leadership. Sadly missed.

I've no idea how Thatcher would have managed this. I've little respect for her politics but don't think May is incompetent, I think she's been faced with very few, always poor options at each juncture. Perhaps a more reflective and collaborative, less rushed and bombastic start to the exit process and the sum total of lots of slightly braver, slightly better decisions over the last two years wouldn't see us as f****d as we are today but I'm not so sure.

I think the campaign and the lost majority cast the die. Now we're stuck with our politicians dishonestly pursuing fever dreams in fear of a deluded electorate in the hope reality gradually dawns.

jk

Bulls Crack - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

Thatcher wouldn't have agreed to a referendum! 

tom_in_edinburgh - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to lone:

Thatcher would never have got into the position of trying to implement a stupid policy she didn't believe in,  she'd fight to get her way until she either won or lost her job.    If you look at her speeches she'd either be remain or possibly EEA (including staying in the single market). 

Post edited at 12:07
wercat on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Pefa:

As someone who spent some time unemployed under Thatcher and who felt angry that more should have been done to help us get out that state I think your post is a pack of lies.


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