Telling the Truth

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 mutt 20 Oct 2020

I'm curious.

My posts on this forum that concern Telling the Truth about climate change and more specifically telling the truth that Climate change is the biggest challenge facing all of  humanity in the 21st century , and also Telling the Truth that in order that we can end our lives and our children may live their lives in a liveable world requires that well all immediately decarbonise our lifestyles. 

This is the truth as the Science repeatedly and overwhelmingly states as Truth,

So I'm curious as to why my posts attract 50% dislikes.  Feel free to dislike this post too but please elaborate on why. 

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 john arran 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

Is there a question in there somewhere?

If it's about dislikes of a particular post, wouldn't it be better addressed in the same thread, or at the very least, to link to the post in question?

 ClimberEd 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

> I'm curious.

> My posts on this forum that concern Telling the Truth about climate change and more specifically telling the truth that Climate change is the biggest challenge facing all of  humanity in the 21st century , and also Telling the Truth that in order that we can end our lives and our children may live their lives in a liveable world requires that well all immediately decarbonise our lifestyles. 

> This is the truth as the Science repeatedly and overwhelmingly states as Truth,

> So I'm curious as to why my posts attract 50% dislikes.  Feel free to dislike this post too but please elaborate on why. 

Because, and I am only going by what you have written here, your post is dogmatic and invites no discussion, or even contribution. You seem to think you are an arbiter of absolute fact. 

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In reply to mutt:

My initial hypothesis, based on this post alone, is that people are immediately suspicious of anyone who capitalises things like “Telling the Truth”. What is this upper case truth that you hold, and why is it superior to everyone else’s lower case truths?

Not saying this is what you do, I can’t recall any specific threads from you on the topic, but generally my perception is that anyone capitalising words like “truth” has already decided that they are the sole holder and imparter of said truth and won’t be open to any discussion or other ideas. It has a bit of a conspiracy theorist vibe to it and sends a bit of a confrontational/arrogant message (or at least it does for me). 

Post edited at 13:38
OP mutt 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Stuart Williams:

fair enough, I checked and it should be all in capitals TELL THE TRUTH, that being a central demand of Gretas school strike and XR. It means nothing more than to accept the truth being told by scientists. Its not my truth, its the whole worlds truth.

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 artif 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

Which "truth" are you referring to.

It seems that you are implying that the climate will stop changing if we stop generating Carbon.

In reply to mutt:

I don’t disagree with you (at least if your point is that it is true that climate change exists), just saying that the capitalisation always feels to me like a sign that whatever follows is likely to be unsubstantiated rubbish. It’s not in this case, but too often is and mostly seems to get used as a false assertion of legitimacy from conspiracy theorists. 

Post edited at 13:55
 profitofdoom 20 Oct 2020
In reply to artif:

> .....It seems that you are implying that the climate will stop changing if we stop generating Carbon.

Thanks, but what he actually suggested was that (presumably we) "all immediately decarbonise our lifestyles"

Whatever that means

 deepsoup 20 Oct 2020
In reply to john arran:

> If it's about dislikes of a particular post, wouldn't it be better addressed in the same thread

It would be better not addressed at all.

Just.
Ignore.
The.
F*cking.
Dislikes!

But if it's going to be addressed, perhaps it's better in a separate thread than derailing the original one with a tedious and irrelevant 'dislike' whinge.

I don't know which thread the OP is on about, but here's one possible hypothesis I can offer:

> Climate change is the biggest challenge facing all of  humanity in the 21st century

Personally, I do not doubt for a moment that this statement is absolutely true.  And that is a fact that I dislike intensely.

 artif 20 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

you missed the part about "we can end our lives and our children may live their lives in a liveable world" hence my words "implying that the climate will stop changing"

Back to mutt

I also wonder if this Utopian, non carbon generating world, includes stopping all the other crap we seem to be producing and poisoning the planet with. 

p.s  for the record, I don't do dislikes on posts

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 profitofdoom 20 Oct 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

> Climate change is the biggest challenge facing all of  humanity in the 21st century

> Personally, I do not doubt for a moment that this statement is absolutely true.  And that is a fact that I dislike intensely.

This century still has 80 years to run, and to generate even bigger challenges!! It's a premature statement IMO

 profitofdoom 20 Oct 2020
In reply to artif:

> you missed the part about "we can end our lives and our children may live their lives in a liveable world" hence my words "implying that the climate will stop changing"

Yes, and thanks, but I was just wondering what on earth "all immediately decarbonise our lifestyles" means

OP mutt 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

> fair enough, I checked and it should be all in capitals TELL THE TRUTH, that being a central demand of Gretas school strike and XR. It means nothing more than to accept the truth being told by scientists. Its not my truth, its the whole worlds truth.

has attracted 5 dislikes so far. This isn't contentious is it? I totally hear you when you object to the tone, but can there really be any debate? So perhaps the dislikers don't want to see anything that can't be debated or argued over on this forum

Yes I do agree that the sort of content I wrote above doesn't have any place on a forum for the reasons outlined above. But I'm at a bit of a loss how to communicate my disappointment that a significant part of the climbing community still embrace flying as an intrinsic part of the sport when every scientist agrees that flying is incompatible with keeping global heating below 1.5degrees. Or would the dislikers prefer me to butt out and let them keep ignoring that inconvenient truth? 

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 deepsoup 20 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> This century still has 80 years to run, and to generate even bigger challenges!! It's a premature statement IMO

Hm.  Like an asteroid impact or a pandemic more contagious and more deadly than this one perhaps.  And of course the good old-fashioned threat of global nuclear war has never quite gone away.. 

Ok, maybe it would be fairer to say it's the biggest challenge facing us now and leave it at that.

Anyway, climate change is off-topic on this thread.  It's a whinge about 'dislikes' so please stop de-railing it with such trivia!

 wintertree 20 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> Yes, and thanks, but I was just wondering what on earth "all immediately decarbonise our lifestyles" means

Self-annihilation by anti-matter?  Pretty much anything else one does is going to lead to CO2 generation...  Unless you go for some aerobic composting to make a lot of methane, but that's not going to help the climate...

 wintertree 20 Oct 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

> Hm.  Like an asteroid impact or a pandemic more contagious and more deadly than this one perhaps.  And of course the good old-fashioned threat of global nuclear war has never quite gone away.. 

I suspect there's a few malicious buggers out there looking at the UK's pandemic response and realising just how badly they could damage us with whatever nasty virus or bacteria they're keeping on ice.  

Preparing to release a an aerosol transmissible version of Ebola?  Be sure to start confidently telling people "It's just like the flu", pay a quack doctor to blog about Quality Adjusted Life Years and how the excessive cost of eliminating the virus will reduce those, and to get a few fifth columnists posting rampant misinformation that cases aren't rising all over social media until that can't be denied, then switch to falsely claiming that deaths aren't rising with cases; perhaps start suggesting that "The UK won't follow the Congo" based on some prejudicial call to genetics and demographics; before you know it they'll have dead and dying everywhere. 

Then they'll probably think about it, not bother sending over the fake shaving foam cans of Ebola  (far too risky to their agents - what if all the dry ice evaporates during the post-Brexit customs queue?) and just use the same tactics to weaponise whatever pandemic is next to come along naturally...

Post edited at 14:46
 jkarran 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

> So I'm curious as to why my posts attract 50% dislikes.  Feel free to dislike this post too but please elaborate on why. 

Are they all in the same, odd, prophetic style? That'd probably do it.

jk

In reply to mutt:

> has attracted 5 dislikes so far. This isn't contentious is it? I totally hear you when you object to the tone, but can there really be any debate?

I mean you've had several replies about the tone, and essentially none debating the role of humans in climate change... and yet you seem to remain convinced that people are objecting to discussion of climate change rather than objecting to the tone.

You asked what people disliked about your posts, and people said the tone. I don't know what more to say on that, I think you have your answer.

Was your intention actually to get an answer, or to make a specific point about your opinion of people's actions around climate change?  It's starting to feel more like the latter.

 mullermn 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

> So I'm curious as to why my posts attract 50% dislikes.  Feel free to dislike this post too but please elaborate on why. 

I'm really quite childish and whenever a grown adult references the fact that they pay attention to the likes/dislikes I immediately hammer the dislike button like a pavlovian dog.

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 Ridge 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

> Telling the Truth that in order that we can end our lives and our children may live their lives 

I'm bloody glad I don't have kids if that's what happens to you when you tell the truth!

OP mutt 20 Oct 2020
In reply to Stuart Williams:

ahh I see, your supposition is that it is all tonel The dislike is because I am writing from the point of view of a zealot regardless of the fact that my position is widely held, its still not nice to read that sort of tone.

I was misinterpreting dislike as rejection of the message. I am happier with the dislike now. Nobody likes a zealot. As long as they are true believers I will accept their dislike ( until I am elected to the high priests office )

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In reply to mutt:

Could it be because you are muttering?

 Billhook 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

Its my  right under The Human Right Act not to agree with the truth.  Yours, or any one else's.

1
 bouldery bits 20 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

You sound a bit smug. That's a dislike magnet.

Also, you seem bothered by dislikes. This is also a dislike magnet.

Don't come back and the whole 'I'm not bothered about dislikes at all actually' thing, you've just started a a thread about it. 

Oh, now I sound smug.

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In reply to Stuart Williams:

> people are immediately suspicious of anyone who capitalises things like “Telling the Truth”

There's a good reason that conspiracists are often dubbed 'Truthers'...

 Cobra_Head 21 Oct 2020
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Oh, now I sound smug.

I tried to give you one of each, but had to settle for a like, bastard technology!!!

 Cobra_Head 21 Oct 2020
In reply to John Stainforth:

> Could it be because you are muttering?


John!! you little tinker.

 blurty 21 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

If you listened a bit and stopped shouting you'd get more traction.

 Robert Durran 21 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

I never use the dislike button, but I can see why people might object to the tone of some of your posts; it is possible to make valid points without antagonising people who in fact probably broadly agree with you.

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 Duncan Bourne 21 Oct 2020
In reply to mutt:

> But I'm at a bit of a loss how to communicate my disappointment that a significant part of the climbing community still embrace flying as an intrinsic part of the sport when every scientist agrees that flying is incompatible with keeping global heating below 1.5degrees.

Just a thought here, and i am not agreeing with this, but while most people (climbers included) are quite happy to re-cycle and offset their carbon footprint by planting the odd tree or two they really don't want to go the whole hairshirt approach. So yes they are concerned about global warming and will happily condemn anything that doesn't conflict with their chosen lifestyle but still want a holiday in sunny Malaga rather than a miserable one in Grimsby.

It is a difficult one as I firmly believe travel can broaden the mind but not at the expense of the planet. I guess the thing will be to find less destructive ways to travel

OP mutt 22 Oct 2020
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

> It is a difficult one as I firmly believe travel can broaden the mind but not at the expense of the planet. I guess the thing will be to find less destructive ways to travel

I agree but its a difficult one. for instance my last holiday to Denmark involved 2000km driving 1.2 Tonnes CO2, and the carbon footprint of 4 flying is 1.17 Tonnes CO2. No difference really (although clearly inter-continental flights are much more damaging). So I guess we have to go to trains and clean up our lives in every other respect possible before considering travel at all, and only then think about how to go on life enhancing trips in the least damaging way we can. Train will be my go-to in the future I think. for my part I have stopped all commuting, put up solar panels and airsource heat pump in the very near future, vegan, and not bread children. is that enough? not according to the WWF sadly. 

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 Timmd 22 Oct 2020
In reply to ClimberEd:

> Because, and I am only going by what you have written here, your post is dogmatic and invites no discussion, or even contribution. You seem to think you are an arbiter of absolute fact. 

The UN and the US (pre Trump) and other notable entities seem to agree that climate change is the biggest challenge facing humanity, too.

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 ClimberEd 23 Oct 2020
In reply to Timmd:

I'm all too familiar with the details, it was my area of work for 10 years.

It's the emotive language, capital letters etc 'Telling the Truth'.  that is problematic. 

 Timmd 23 Oct 2020
In reply to ClimberEd:

Fury snuff.


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