Telescopes for children?

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 Si dH 05 Nov 2021

Hi folks, bit of a random question but I think there are a few keen amateur astronomers on here. My son (aged 4 and a half) like many kids loves space. My wife had the idea of getting him a small telescope as a Christmas present and he seems keen. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice? Neither I or my wife are into astronomy so knowledge base is low.

Basically I don't know if there is a sensible sort of product out there that is a proper telescope rather than a toy but which is suitable for use by fairly young children (with supervision.) Has anyone else been down this route? It would be great to get him something good enough that you could, for example, see Saturn's rings through at the right time of year. We can't use it at home due to there being lots of floodlights from the school nextdoor but one, but we can easily drive to fairly good spots for stargazing only a couple of miles away. So it probably needs a full tripod, or the ability to fit on a standard one, rather than a tabletop type thing (not sure if they use the same attachment systems as cameras?)

Max budget would be ~£100.

Thanks

Post edited at 12:53
 Bottom Clinger 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

I’d get the mods to quickly change the title if I was you...

1
 wintertree 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

I got a small microscope for a similar aged child (well, for me really...).  Getting them to use an eyepiece reliably and satisfactory is not easy; lots of frustration abounds. I've ended up using an eyepiece camera on to the computer (Raspberry Pi 400) monitor.

Once you make the step to using a camera, if you already have a dSLR and a tripod and a decent lens around 200mm to 400mm, you can get surprisingly far with a home-made "barn door" 1-axis tracking mount and a 2x extender...     If you just have to buy the extender and the parts for a barn door tracker, it'll be in budget...

Sorry, totally didn't answer the question (for a change).

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

> I’d get the mods to quickly change the title if I was you...

Most people don't think like that; can we get you some mind bleach instead?  I did once have a random parent come up and have a go at me when walking along a beach in Gairloch carrying a 200 mm lens on my dSLR, slung over my shoulder, with the lens cap on, because their were children present.  They were not satisfied with my response.

 graeme jackson 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

The problem you will have is to manage expectations. Very few scopes aimed at amateurs give the Hubble quality images they show on the box. Seeing the rings of saturn or the bands on jupiter in any detail requires a large aperture and high magnification and for £100 you just don't get the required quality of optics.

a few years ago we bought our grandson a spotting scope for xmas.    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071WPP85D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o...

It won't show the rings of Saturn well, nor the bands on jupiter but may give a hint and it's great for looking at the moon.

It has the benefit of being useable during the day aswell as at night - he uses it to watch birds on top of looking at the moon.  Also shows the image the right way up - my astro scopes show the image flipped upside down AND right to left which can be a difficult concept for younger minds.

p.s. if your son (or you) really get into it, be prepared to go bankrupt.

Post edited at 13:21
 Jenny C 05 Nov 2021
In reply to graeme jackson:

I have my dad's old bird watching telescope (from before he was married). It's not stunning and as above things will still be tiny, but we've seen and Saturn's rings through it and of course its more versatile than an astronomy specific one (useful if his interests change). 

It fits on a standard camera tripod and is totally unusable as a hand held. Tracking tiny objects in the sky is tricky (probably your job to set up then him to look), but I remember having good fun with it in the garden when I was a kid - much easier than binoculars.

 Gavin 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

As another poster has said managing expectations is going to be the big thing, as well as something that is going to be be quick to set up as at that age standing round in the cold isn't going to happen for long.

You could get something like https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-76-mini-dob..., though First Light Optics are well worth contacting for their advice.

For the budget you should be able to get good views of the moon, Saturn's rings, star clusters etc.

Gavin

OP Si dH 05 Nov 2021
In reply to thread:

Thanks folks, interesting that some people recommend spotting scopes instead of a dedicated astronomy one.

I found a website with some comparison reviews/recommendations for beginner telescopes and this Orion Spaceprobe sounds like it might be a good option, does anyone have any experience with it or something similar?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0732TBPJW?tag=georiot-trd-21&th=1&psc=...

(Gavin, to my uneducated eyes some of the specs of this also look similar to the one you recemmended?)

 Tom Valentine 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

Spotting scopes are great for some astronomy viewing. I have a little Celestron Hummingbird which has got me quite a few heavenly "ticks" - (It also takes astronomy eyepieces. )

Its main drawback  is the range of vertical  viewing limited by the 45 degree eyepiece holder. You can't view anything high up in the sky without some very serious body contortions. If the main targets are the moon and Jupiter/ Saturn this won't really matter, though.

 ablackett 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

I think he’s going to really struggle to look through the eye piece at that age, my 5 year old loves coming out with my scope but all he enjoys is twiddling the knobs and pushing the camera shutter which is annoying if I’m trying to actually do anything with it.

Set of binoculars and look at the moon?

 wercat 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

next topic for the affluent:

"Radio Telescopes for Children" ...

(ideal for wet and cloudy counties and light polluted areas?)

Post edited at 10:11
 Dave Garnett 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

My first thought when I saw the thread title was that if they are that far away you’d be better tracking their mobile phones!

 Bobling 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

Slight tangent....I've just done the Cubs Astronomy badge with our youngest, and the best bit of it for us wasn't using scopes or binoculars but heading out a couple of nights ago with roll-mats, hot chocolate and sleeping bags and lying on the ground in a fairly 'dark' bit of countryside staring up at the sky.  We happily stayed for about an hour and with a free star app (Skyview) to help interpret and identify what we were seeing we had a magic evening!  Can thoroughly recommend if anyone hasn't done this.

 Gavin 08 Nov 2021
In reply to Gavin:

Just having had a look at the link you sent - Orion are a reputable make so it should be OK.  Taking the 70x magnification with a 10mm eyepiece suggests a focal length of 700mm, so ~f9 which means you'll get more magnification for the same eye piece over the model I sent.  You're well under the rule of thumb usable limit (roughly 50x the aperature in inches) so should be OK.  One thing to note is that you may need something for a 5yo to stand on depending on the height the mount puts the eyepiece at.

 Toerag 08 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

sounds like a fair swap for me, cash adjustment either way obviously. I have 2 kids, would like to swap for a single, really good scope or WHY.

 Tom Valentine 08 Nov 2021
In reply to Gavin:

i thought the OP  ruled out tabletops?

 Pglossop 09 Nov 2021
In reply to graeme jackson:

I agree, ease of use I think is going to be a much bigger criterion than technical details. I have a Celestron Astromaster 130 (soon to be for sale) reflector. It will do Saturn’s rings, and with lots of collimating, cooling for at least 30minutes, still air, and stacking software, I can get a photo with fuzzy bands on Jupiter. The children went back inside 2 hours ago. 
 

It’s replacement is a birdwatching refractor. Less magnification, but just point it at the sky and look.

The best photo we had was of a giant sunspot,  using a cheap plastic toy scope projecting onto paper. Spectacular image, and really unexpected. A proper solar projector would be an option to consider. Easy to use, and I found it quite mind blowing to be able to see structures on the surface of a star. Usual warnings about observing the sun apply.

I’d also consider a good app. Pocket Universe makes it easy to identify what planets are up tonight, and being able to find that pink dot and know it is Mars is fabulous.

In reply to Si dH:

I had the same thoughts with my kids a few years ago.  We ended up trying with high-end binoculars, a Celestron spotting scope and a camera tripod.   One time we managed to see Saturn, and could see there was a ring but not any detail.

We live in the middle of town and the limiting factor was haze/cloud and light pollution, not the quality of the telescope.   There were four barriers to telescope use - kids bedtime / need to get up for school / not many days with good conditions / lack of motivation to go out in the cold at night and drive somewhere.

1
OP Si dH 10 Nov 2021
In reply to thread:

Thanks all for the advice folks. We are having second thoughts about whether it's the right age yet to try this. Not completely decided yet but if we don't buy one now I'll store the thread for future use!

 Michael Hood 10 Nov 2021
In reply to Si dH:

FYI: I've got a Hawke 12-36x50 spotting scope. This was bought to use as a small portable birdwatching scope.

When I use it on the night sky, I can see Saturn's rings, they appear as small "handles" on each side, so I can say that I've seen Saturn's rings but not much else. Jupiter is a slightly larger disk and the 4 Galilean moons are easy to see. But this scope isn't good enough to see any planetary bands and the planets are still pretty minute in the image.

For more detail you'd either need an astronomical scope or a much bigger/better (and more expensive) spotting scope.

 wercat 10 Nov 2021
In reply to Pglossop:

Seeing sunspots like that is amazing but I also have a favourite picture of a small dot against the sun - The Transit of Venus in 2004 projected from a cheap Aldi Reflector

Has anyone seen meteor pings ?  Using a Sony radio with a signal strength meter you could see flickers when tuned to a very weak distant station caused by the ionisation trials reflecting a stronger signal

Post edited at 08:47
 Pglossop 10 Nov 2021
In reply to wercat:

Fantastic that you got the Transit of Venus. The sunspot picture was when we were practicing for the 2012 transit. It was cloudy for the transit for us. Next one is 2117, so I don’t think I’ll see that either. 
 

I did get the 2016 transit of Mercury projecting through small binoculars, with a cereal packet shroud, and a partial solar eclipse just projecting through my spectacles onto the outside side wall of school.

In reply to Si dH:

in my personal opinion I think 4 may be a bit too young to truly appreciate HOWEVER you know your son better than anyone and if he's showing an interest it's up to us as parents to feed that interest and see what it turns into. 


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