Street Light Technician - key worker?

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 Run_Ross_Run 02 Apr 2020

Heard something today and the guy referred to himself as a 'key worker' his job was street light technician and stated that he was ensuring our safety etc.

Don't dispute the safety aspect but key worker? It left me scratching my head a bit. 

34
 Timmd 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

I would have thought so, since darkness helps crime to go unnoticed, and makes people feel less safe. 

 Dark-Cloud 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

From the government key worker list:

Transport

Those who will keep the air, water, road and rail passenger and freight transport modes operating during the COVID-19 response, including those working on transport systems through which supply chains pass

 dread-i 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

Being a key worker, gets you all sorts of special things. For example, you can keep your kids in school. I expect one could flash an ID card an jump queues at supermarkets etc.

I don't doubt the need for streetlights, though I can see the potential for abuse by individuals and by employers.

23
 DancingOnRock 02 Apr 2020
In reply to dread-i:

It also means you have to leave the safety of the house every day and go to work. 
 

There are many key workers keeping the country going doing jobs that many people don’t even realise exist or even what those jobs entail. 

 Babika 02 Apr 2020
In reply to dread-i:

Key worker also means really s*** pay most of the time. So if they get a bit further up the supermarket queue I really don't begrudge that 

 wintertree 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

We will regret not including telephone sanitisers on that list, mark my words…

 MG 02 Apr 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> We will regret not including telephone sanitisers on that list, mark my words…

I think this whole thing is a result of not valuing them before.

 MG 02 Apr 2020
In reply to wintertree:

My god!  I just googled Telephone Sanitiser.  We are doomed.

gezebo 02 Apr 2020
In reply to dread-i:

> Being a key worker, gets you all sorts of special things. For example, you can keep your kids in school.

The local council envisaged about 10% of pupils having keyworker parents. In our school it turned out to be more than double that and I don’t think there’s anything different about the parents here than anywhere else. 
 

On the subject of identifying key workers I’ve heard of people buying care home uniforms and such like online in order to get about whatever ‘business’ they are up to. As usual crims are often a step ahead. 

1
 DancingOnRock 02 Apr 2020
In reply to gezebo:

Both parents need to be key workers in order to send the kids to school. 

gezebo 02 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Yes I know. I was just pointing out that the number of ‘key workers’ was probably higher than envisioned. This could be due to  older population needing carers etc. I noticed on the original list a number of parents identified themselves as this. 

 pec 02 Apr 2020
In reply to gezebo:

> The local council envisaged about 10% of pupils having keyworker parents. In our school it turned out to be more than double that and I don’t think there’s anything different about the parents here than anywhere else. 

Funnily enough in my wife's school they only identified 27 (out of about 900) as children of key workers and after 3 days only half a dozen or so bothered to go into school.

gezebo 02 Apr 2020
In reply to pec:

20 out of 70 here. Not loads of siblings either. I’ve no idea what the turnout was. 

 marsbar 02 Apr 2020
In reply to pec:

Thankfully most parents realised it was better to keep them at home if possible.  

2
 marsbar 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

Have you ever seen a vandalised street light?  All those nice colourful live wires  for a kid to stick their fingers in... 

 DancingOnRock 02 Apr 2020
In reply to gezebo:

That’s weird. If you’re a full time carer for an elderly parent, that would imply they’re living with you and the children, and it probably would be wiser for the children to stay away from school anyway. 

 marsbar 02 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

I know our school has a lot of mums who work at the old people's home.  That is what I assumed full time carer mean. Still not ideal for those children to be in school but there isn't always another option.  

 Blue Straggler 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

How does one find one out if one is classed as a “key worker” if one’s employer is classed as an “essential business” eg “essential to infrastructure etc” but one doesn’t consider oneself “key” as in “frontline”? 

 marsbar 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

There is a list somewhere but I don't know how detailed it is.  

 Alkis 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Babika:

> Key worker also means really s*** pay most of the time. So if they get a bit further up the supermarket queue I really don't begrudge that 

Shitty pay, the government considering you a low skilled worker, risking your health, what's not to like?

1
 DancingOnRock 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Babika:

> Key worker also means really s*** pay most of the time. So if they get a bit further up the supermarket queue I really don't begrudge that 

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement. Everybody who works plays a part in society and key workers are not just shelf stackers and cleaners. Just that some jobs are not totally essential for society to function at a minimum level. 

Making out some people are more important than others doesn’t really get us anywhere. 

2
 Blue Straggler 02 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Thanks for the link. It does sort of manage to be a little “open” especially on the last two points. FWIW I asked the question because my company has been classed as “essential to infrastructure” which in practical terms pretty much seems to mean that I can go to my office without fear of repercussion, and that if I had children I could send them to school. They issued a certificate to print out on A4 saying “This employee is working on critical infrastructure” but the certificate is not specific to me so I don’t know exactly how I would “prove” anything if I were “questioned”. Personally I don’t feel that what I actually do is essential to the running of the country or the maintenance of society ; indirectly yes it is (I work in industrial inspection which often involves inspecting things related to transportation and energy, but more at a novel research level that at a critical field maintenance level) so I am staying home as much as I can. If I travel to the office (by car, and I am the only one in the building) I feel a bit guilty. Spoke to a courier today who said he thought it was odd, doing the rounds, that he sees a lot of businesses closed but a paper production company open. Not sure what to make of that, I guess paper is a staple product, no pun intended ...

mick taylor 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

One of my brothers owns some woodland, and a forum he uses asked DEFRA ‘can we go to our woods and do shit*’ and they said ‘if your doing shit results in planks of wood** then ‘yes’, you are making essential materials and are thus a key worker’.  True.  They are mainly hippy types making charcoal for high end doner kebab shops and they whittle wooden spoons for stirring dhall.

* don’t think they really said shit, but woodsmen do shit in their woods.

** my brother does shit planks of wood, I’ve seen them, they look like a well planed log. To clarify, his wooden planks are good and I would buy them, but his shits are big and wooden.

1
 DancingOnRock 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

That’s where the work from home “where possible” comes in. Your company is supposed to only require you to go into work if you absolutely can’t work from home. 
The key worker part isn’t about whether you can or can’t go into work, it’s only whether your kids should be in school. 
Anyone can presently go into work. There’s no actual law stopping you, other than some specific premises have been closed by law. Most companies have closed their operations because they can’t keep their employees and customers safe under health and safety law. 
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/further-businesses-and-premises-...

Post edited at 23:16
 Blue Straggler 02 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Thanks....so the term “key worker” only applies to people with children of school age?

I did vaguely get that it’s not illegal to go to work even if not “officially” classed as “essential” (a cursory glance around the 9-unit light business park where my site is, indicates this) but it still seems vague with people reporting friends and family being pulled over and questioned by police about where they are off to work. It’s not like I have a uniform or even an officially recognised ID. Thanks for your input. My position is that if someone sends in something for industrial inspection, I’ll go in and do it as I can’t do that from home; otherwise, I stay home 

 DancingOnRock 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

They’re asking people where they are going. 
 

There are only 4 reasons for you to be out and about. One of them is to work so they’re finding out whether you’re actually going to work, or whether you’re going to meet your mates for a day out, off camping in Derbyshire or buying some windows off eBay. 
 

I assume if you are believable and have an address to go to, are heading in the right direction they’ll let you go on your way. 

Post edited at 23:41
 Bobling 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

Tough one.  As ever shades of grey which are brought into the spotlight when good soundbites in the news conferences translate into real decisions in peoples' lives.   I'm not dissing the government - like so many others in the world at the moment they are trying to do very difficult things in very difficult circumstances under impossible time pressure.  There are bound to be loose ends.

'You and Yours' on Radio 4 is an interesting listen at the moment...never thought I would say that!

 Dax H 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

We have a letter from Yorkshire Water classing us as critical workers. Originally I printed out own one out for the lads to cover our work in water, food, pharma and transport but the YW one obviously carries more weight.

Mine was enough for the school of one of the lads kid though but not the child minder, I do wonder how much abuse of the system is going on. I put half my guys on furlough weeks ago and this lad contacted me when one of the other guys told him about the YW letter asking if he could get a copy so he could get his kid in the child minders. Apparently it's hard work to look after your own kid when your Mrs is still working. I refused. 

 Dax H 03 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> It also means you have to leave the safety of the house every day and go to work. 

> There are many key workers keeping the country going doing jobs that many people don’t even realise exist or even what those jobs entail. 

That would be me then. It's been a mixed bag this week, Monday was admin from my home office, Tuesday on a waste water site in the dales in the morning and working on a compressor that blows air in to a reservoir in the afternoon. Wednesday on a massive waste site fixing a broken air blower, Thursday a mix of admin and a trip to service a compressor at a pharmaceutical factory, today I will be climbing a ladder in to a sewer to look at a control system for pumping shit away, never seen one of these before but apparently its 8 weeks to get a new part so they want me to try either fix the old one or make a workaround on the fly. 

I love my job (that's not sarcasm either, I do love my job most of the time but maybe not so much today) 

 gethin_allen 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

The question in my mind is; if this person (or anyone else in that matter) is able to do their job safely on their own why should we stop them working.

There's no point increasing the financial impact of the situation unnecessarily.

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

That’s not really the question. The question is whether his job is important enough that we should be risking his kids being in school and hence not on their own and home. 
 

If he has no kids or his partner can look after his kids then his key worker status is a moot point anyway, it gives him no benefits. 

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to dread-i:

I think you can only jump supermarket queues with an NHS card. 
 

My wife has one but doesn’t work shifts so we haven’t used it. 

Post edited at 09:19
 gethin_allen 03 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> That’s not really the question. The question is whether his job is important enough that we should be risking his kids being in school and hence not on their own and home. 

> If he has no kids or his partner can look after his kids then his key worker status is a moot point anyway, it gives him no benefits. 


Well the thread was diverging and you've answered your own question at the end. Who knows if this person has kids, a family or whatever. But my question still stands, if there's no risk and no reason why not, why should people be stopped from working.

This is as much a question about how much disruption the public will take and for how long before people just start rebelling and ignoring what they see as illogical and excessive rules.

The government is so crap at explaining their rules and the logic behind them, and to be fair some people struggle to understand even the best efforts, and others just wont be told. If people decide that they've had enough and won't follow the rules then we have a big problem.

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 neilh 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

I estimate that about 60-70% of the economy can easily be classed as key worker.

Ranging from nhs, suppliers to nhs, food, transport, local authorities, social care, utilities, banking. financial services transport infrastructure, construction ( all those people putting together hospitals,all the services and support which backs those up, civil service, defence, security, it, education and so on.

The list to keep the country going is pretty endless.

My own manufacturing business which makes a piece of capital equipment has a specific " Stay Open " instruction as we are a supplier to the defence sector. We also supply to medical companys as well.

The injection moulder we use for plastic parts has a " Stay open" instruction as they supply to agriculture. Various fabricators I use have the same as they are making trolleys etc for the NHS. A power coating workshop I use also has a simialr instruction as they are involved in a similar supply chain.

You would be surprised at what is needed.

Post edited at 09:32
 HansStuttgart 03 Apr 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> We will regret not including telephone sanitisers on that list, mark my words…

don't panic

 marsbar 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Dax H:

So he is off work on 80% pay and he wants to put his own kid at risk because he can't be bothered to parent.  Wow.  

 MG 03 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

> I estimate that about 60-70% of the economy can easily be classed as key worker.

It's time based, in practice, I think.  For 24 hrs probably only key medical  staff are really key, after a week that expands to wider health, food, transport etc, and for longer periods more and more people become key to a functioning society.  This is why I don't think the "lockdown" approach is sustainable for more than a couple of months at the outside.  

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

No one who can mange the risk is being stopped from working. 
 

I posted a link of the list of businesses that have been closed.(up thread last night 22:54) It’s clear to business owners and that’s all that matters. If workers are confused they just need to ask their boss. You still have to maintain social distancing while in the workplace. 

Post edited at 09:48
Removed User 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

My son's a signal engineer on the East Coast Mainline = key worker.

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to MG:

There’s tons of stuff that if it stops even for a half hour there becomes a massive problem. electricity, Water, sewage, trains...

 neilh 03 Apr 2020
In reply to MG:

Good comment. I just get frustrated with this view that only key medical staff are critical. There are huge swathes of the economy which are vital. I got annoyed with our bank yesterday when having to go to deposit some US dollar cheques ( its a process you cannot do any other way).They are on reduced opening hours 10 -1 and the counter staff only letting in 2 at a time into a huge building. I was told that if they all became ill the bank would close. This is ridiculous banking is vital.Certainly if the supermarkets can manage the flow of people etc,then banks should be  able to get their act together and rotate staff etc alot better.

 jkarran 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Presumably your employer tells you so. In my case one of our (obviously essential, oxygen producer) clients proactively wrote to key suppliers asking them to maintain service. Personally I'm sent home, I'll only need to go in to fix things if they get broken.

jk

1
 Blue Straggler 03 Apr 2020
In reply to jkarran:

Thanks. I have a lot of autonomy, I am not a manager but in practical terms I AM a "site manager" of one employee (me!). I was in the office twice last week and twice this week; aside from walking 120m from my house to my car, and the risk attached to driving(*), it is at least the equivalent amount of social distancing as staying at home - in my office I am physically further from people than I am in my home (neighbours on both sides, OK many metres away and through walls, but at work I am at least 50 metres away from anyone)

* I don't trivialise this risk, I have certainly observed exploitation of "far emptier than usual" roads, by drivers and cyclists alike, obviously drivers are more dangerous. Interesting that dangerous driving made it into the 4 minute 6Music news bulletins late last night, Yorkshire police reporting a spike in speeding offences up to 132mph

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

Supermarkets have run a massive recruitment drive. Filling shelves and scanning tills is fairly simple.
 

I’m not sure you can grab people off the streets and security vet and train them in banking overnight. 

 Blue Straggler 03 Apr 2020
In reply to jkarran:

> Presumably your employer tells you so.

Employer has not said I am "key" (but this seems to have been addressed upthread - I don't have children!)

The words on my certificate are "critical" and "essential" which I guess are synonyms for "key". It's not a biggie, it's not like I want to able to say "I AM A KEY WORKER", I was just interested in the definition. I thought for example all NHS front-liners (parents or not) were "key" and then started wondering where the definition starts and ends. But it's not that important. 

Cheers

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

It’s mental on the roads in London. They’re seeing 80mph+ on 40mph roads. 
 

The North Circular is like a race track at the best of times. However, there are lots of unmarked police cars out and I’ve now seen two people pulled over this week.

 MG 03 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> There’s tons of stuff that if it stops even for a half hour there becomes a massive problem. electricity, Water, sewage, trains...

Of course but most of that could run itself for 24hrs (not trains clearly, but actually I think 24hs of no trains wouldn't be that difficulty - it happens in say serious whether, pretty much)

 neilh 03 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Yep but you can rotate them so they are protected. Its not difficult. There was no reason to have all the counter staff there as per a normal day. It just need a bit more thinking through.

I am sure it will change.

 neilh 03 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Its weird elsewhere as well on the roads.Overtaking in stupid places seems to be rife.

 DancingOnRock 03 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

That’s weird. But rotating people doesn’t help. Parallel processing is much more efficient than multiple single processing. 
 

Look at the single line heading to multiple self checkouts at a supermarket as a good example. One person can buy loads of items and the people behind with one or two items don’t have to wait, they can all be processed at the same time. 

 Dax H 03 Apr 2020
In reply to marsbar:

> So he is off work on 80% pay and he wants to put his own kid at risk because he can't be bothered to parent.  Wow.  

No he is off work on 100% pay, if the gov is chipping in 80% I can afford the extra 20%.

Yes he doesn't want to look after his kid. Cuts in to his xbox and TV time. 

You can imagine how impressed by this I am, if I lose customers over this period and have to make redundancies its a shame I won't be able to use this to sway my decision. 

 neilh 03 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Have one set of staff in one day, next set in the other day. Split the risk, just do not have all the counter staff in every day on the counter which is what they were doing.

Must be weird operating in that environment.

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> That’s not really the question. The question is whether his job is important enough that we should be risking his kids being in school and hence not on their own and home. 

Or her job, and kids...

Post edited at 01:55
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 marsbar 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Dax H:

Sorry, should have known you’d pay the extra 20%.   I hope your staff appreciates your approach, not every employer is as good.  

 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Timmd:

No. We are definitely discussing a man. 

In reply to dread-i:

> Being a key worker, gets you all sorts of special things. For example, you can keep your kids in school. I expect one could flash an ID card an jump queues at supermarkets etc.

> I don't doubt the need for streetlights, though I can see the potential for abuse by individuals and by employers.

I'm a 'key worker' (waste industry) If going to work is a privilege then it's the only one. I've got a letter from the company to show the police if they pull me over on my commute but I don't think it would be worth showing at the supermarket. 

Having your children go to school would be to enable you to work.

Is this a 'grass is greener ' post?

Post edited at 10:31
 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I think it was made a long time ago when people were expecting a much tighter lockdown. 
 

So far, the only benefit is childcare during the day via schools. 
 

That may change. 

In reply to neilh:

> Have one set of staff in one day, next set in the other day. Split the risk, just do not have all the counter staff in every day on the counter which is what they were doing.

> Must be weird operating in that environment.

Unless you disinfect the office daily you are probably just spreading the risk to more people rather than a few

In reply to DancingOnRock:

We were told that we might qualify for school time for our daughter but the school has shut anyway and isn't taking anyone.

 elsewhere 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

Somebody I know working in a food factory who said they're getting short of packaging, That makes printing & cardboard production "key workers" too.

A lot of important stuff will grind to halt without a myriad of sometimes obscure suppliers and services.

Post edited at 10:56
 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to elsewhere:

I have a feeling that the key worker designation was because people were sitting at home and would have still sent their kids in to school. So only people who absolutely could not work from home would have their kids in school. 
 

Since this thread was started a lot of non essential retail outlets have now been shut down.

andrew breckill 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

My Mrs works in a school and the unemployed as a lifestyle parents started phoning the school to inform them they are applying for Key worker jobs. Seems the idea of looking after their children outside of normal holidays was too much to contemplate. They went from 80 children on day one of 'closure' and are now down to 3 children attending for genuine key workers. 

Post edited at 11:18
 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to andrew breckill:

I’m guessing on day one everyone tried it on and the Head then started contacting the parents. 
 

I’ll bet also that the head predicted exactly who those 80 children would be. 

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> No. We are definitely discussing a man. 

It's hard to know if this is tongue in cheek, but a niece is a showing a practical and technological bent. A technician could easily be a she.

Back to the topic...

Post edited at 11:43
 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Timmd:

>Heard something today and the guy referred to himself as a 'key worker' his job was street light technician and stated that he was ensuring our safety etc.

Pretty sure that’s a man. 

 kylos8048 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Dax H:

Yeah I'm an Engineer in water treatment too. Seems to be hit or miss whether sites are deemed essential. Any sites we have treatment tanks out of commission are still going as there is no backup if the tank still running fails.

It's a pain in the arse trying to get anything done. No parts, no fabricators open. Transport for the fitters and even digs/food for the guys is all awkward. 

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock: Watch out for horses...

 malk 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

> Heard something today and the guy referred to himself as a 'key worker' his job was street light technician

5G innit

 Dax H 08 Apr 2020
In reply to kylos8048:

It is all very random, I tool a call a hour ago and they want the SAS mixing compressors back that we Overhauled after the floods, hardly vital when it's a duty/duty/ common standby system, we put a temp machine on the standby plinth and 2 out of the 3 have been electrically dead since the 2015 floods anyway. 

Flip side though they canceled us fitting new DAF compressors on a major potable treatment site when the old ones though running are on a wing and a prayer. 

Like you say totally random. 

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> today I will be climbing a ladder in to a sewer to look at a control system for pumping shit away, never seen one of these before but apparently its 8 weeks to get a new part so they want me to try either fix the old one or make a workaround on the fly. 

> I love my job (that's not sarcasm either, I do love my job most of the time but maybe not so much today) 

Strangely enough, that sounds quite interesting from a practical point of view, problem solving in that way is satisfying.

Post edited at 13:34
 Wiley Coyote2 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

One of the shocks of the Foot and Mouth outbreak 20 years ago was that a lot of people  in holiday areas discovered they were unknowingly 'in the tourism business'. EG car salesmen and furniture businesses who had never sold a thing to a tourist in their lives and perhaps even cursed visitors for cluttering up the roads discovered that B&B owners, restauranteurs and hoteliers  deprived of business could not afford the cars and refurbs. The realised they too relied on tourists.

Likewise in this pandemic I think we are discovering just how interdependent we all are. Workers we never noticed and, let's be honest, jobs we have used to warn the kids "If you don't get your exams you'll end up doing that"  have suddenly been revealed as vital to keeping society going. Memories are short and who knows how long it will last but right we've learned to appreciate who is needed to keep the cogs turning and even the small pieces matter

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Wiley Coyote2: The thing about the important jobs children can be warned about and us discovering their worth in terms of people relying on them being done, has me thinking about how different jobs are valued, which almost inevitably seems to lead to discussions of a political nature, along the lines of a market value for a certain skill set and what price it can fetch compared to it's societal value.  Their importance is plain to see right now, though.

Post edited at 14:53
In reply to elsewhere:

> Somebody I know working in a food factory who said they're getting short of packaging,

In replay to Wiley Coyote:

> Likewise in this pandemic I think we are discovering just how interdependent we all are.

A friend of mine in the paper industry says that bog roll is made from waste office whites. Guess what is happening with everyone working at home...?

Post edited at 15:26
 marsbar 08 Apr 2020
In reply to andrew breckill:

Oh yes we had quite a few of those parents who didn't want to look after their own children phone up and come into school.  

Sadly for them, being on the dole does not qualify for emergency child care.  

I don't know how the receptionists kept their tongue, I'd have struggled when they were complaining that they couldn't cope with the behaviour of their own children.  The same parents who moan how unfair it is when I put their badly behaved children in detention or if I dare to speak to them in the wrong way.  

I had an email from one of them complaining that her little darling hadn't done any work whatsoever in the last 3 weeks and can I send more work. Logical.  Perhaps she would like me to do a home visit in my Easter holiday to tell him off through the window.  

Last week it was a complaint about a child who "didnt have any work set".  I forwarded that to my boss as "your child is lying to you" never goes down well.  Nor does "did you bother to check the information on the school website, the letters we posted or the test messages we sent."  

1
 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Timmd:

All jobs are important. There are tons of jobs that aren’t getting done right now. We can put up with them not being done for so long before they become a major issue. Either through problems of things getting broken, we run out of things or just there’s no money moving round the system. 
 

Key workers are just people who are doing jobs that need to be done in the short term. 
 

Everyone becomes a key worker in the long term. 

2
 marsbar 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Nail technician has always struck me as a bit of a pointless job.  I very very occasionally paint my nails myself.  It's not particularly difficult.  Some of the younger women I work with go every month to have fake talons attached and removed and filed and painted. There is money to be made but it's not really essential. I suppose it comes under moving money around. 

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> Everyone becomes a key worker in the long term. 

I'm not so sure about that, there's certain jobs which provide an income for the individual, and taxes for the economy, but if they didn't exist, society wouldn't be worse for it (except for in purely financial terms). 

Some jobs are essential, and some are more what one might call beneficial in bringing money into the economy, in my humble opinion there is a difference, albeit a blurry one...

Post edited at 17:48
 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

What I'm thinking is, there's some jobs which would inevitably lead to suffering, some disorder, or a reduced quality of standard of living as a direct consequence of not being done, and there's other jobs which exist which benefit the economy, which if they didn't exist -  so long as there was another means of generating revenue to take their place, society could get along okay without them. 

There's bound to be grey areas, but there are certain things which just 'have to be done', and there's other areas, like coffee shops, which are nice to go to, and they generate revenue, but if there was half the number, so long as there was another means for the economy to get the same revenue, people could still be happy enough. I can't see that the same would apply to people who work as carers, or doctors, or nurses, or in mental health - for those there is a minimum requirement for society to function adequately, and for people to be well.

Post edited at 21:26
 DancingOnRock 08 Apr 2020
In reply to Timmd:

All those jobs have some supply chain. Less coffee shops, less china mugs made, cleaners, baristas, cakes, coffee imported, lorry drivers. If people don’t drink coffee, then all those people’s jobs reduce. What do they do then? 
 

In a booming economy all these little, non-essential, jobs emerge, when the economy shrinks, these are the first jobs to go and the people don’t disappear and get other jobs, they become unemployed. 

 Timmd 08 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> All those jobs have some supply chain. Less coffee shops, less china mugs made, cleaners, baristas, cakes, coffee imported, lorry drivers. If people don’t drink coffee, then all those people’s jobs reduce. What do they do then? 

I think what I'm trying to put across, is that outside of the jobs which are essential in the way I've described, the other jobs aren't irreplaceable in quite the same way, that the surrounding economy is dynamic, and the people working in those other jobs are plausibly multifaceted, and (hopefully) won't only be able to be cleaners or baristas. The sociable nature of baristas means they'd likely be able to do something else which is people based, a friend is selling up the cafe business she has built from scratch, and wants to become a personal trainer now instead, which is also people focused but in a different way.

> In a booming economy all these little, non-essential, jobs emerge, when the economy shrinks, these are the first jobs to go and the people don’t disappear and get other jobs, they become unemployed. 

Yes, I fully appreciate that. I'm currently unemployed BTW (due to a longish journey back towards decent mental health), and am pondering the breadth of my skillset as a personality if you like, and what roles I could realistically apply myself to (straight away and with a certain amount of training).

Post edited at 22:28
 Dax H 09 Apr 2020
In reply to Timmd:

> Strangely enough, that sounds quite interesting from a practical point of view, problem solving in that way is satisfying.

It was very interesting and quite simple too. A 1.2 meter high tank of sewage with a tube down it that had a bladder on the end attached to some nylon pipe, the deeper the water got the more pressure was put on the bladder. The pipe ran up to the most old fashioned pressure switch I have ever seen, it was like the inside of a grandfather clock. As the pressure goes up it pushed a diafram (can't spell that) and that pushes a plunger that activates each of the 4 switches in turn. 

40 mbar, low level

50mbar okay/ stop pump

80 mbar start pump

90mbar high level, start both pumps and send warning alarm to control room. 

The fault was a perished pipe, even my ultrasonic couldn't find the leak because it was so small and such low pressure so I had to put my druk pump on it and over pressure it and once we found the leak and new bit of 6mm pipe was fit and jobs a good un. 

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Basically anything that keeps people busy and earning is 'essential'. I don't think so.

Arms manufacture. Party accessories/fast fashion. Hedge fund manager. Large rafts of the consultancy industry.

No wonder the environment is screwed.

 neilh 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

You might be interested in the attached Gov  statement

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...

 neilh 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Lorry drivers. You should go up and down the motorways at the moment, they are having a great time. The roads are free from traffic, goods are being moved around pretty freely and there are plenty of lorrys on the road.

It must be great at the moment with so few cars around.

 DancingOnRock 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Indeed, we should all sit around growing our own food on allotments, teaching our own children and keeping chickens for eggs, sheep for wool, and cows for leather.
 

Where do I sign up? 
 

You know hedge fund managers are key workers as part of banking services? 

Post edited at 09:21
3
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> Indeed, we should all sit around growing our own food on allotments, teaching our own children and keeping chickens for eggs, sheep for wool, and cows for leather.

> Where do I sign up? 

> You know hedge fund managers are key workers as part of banking services? 

That's what hedge fund managers like to tell people.

 DancingOnRock 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

What job do you do out of interest. Then we can decide whether you’re a useful member of society or whether we should give you a more important job.

 neilh 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Seen this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219930

Unreal, quite correct they should be back in work

In reply to DancingOnRock:

I deal with waste materials and see all the crap people get through.

Are you a hedgefund manager?

 DancingOnRock 09 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

That’s interesting. 
 

LSTM said 520,000 deaths working on 60%. 
80% would be 770,000 deaths. Even at 1000 deaths a day that’s 770 days. When other countries have eradicated it by December we will still be having 1000 deaths a day for another 2 years. 

 neilh 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

That view  assumes that nothing is done. Even the govts own forecasts predicts that sort of result....if nothing is done.

Do you honestly think that the Uk is going to be radically different to other countrys ?

Hedge fund managers can easily work from home anyway, same with most consultants.

 DancingOnRock 09 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

What do you mean, nothing is done? 
 

If the CFR is 1%, and you need to get 80% of the population infected then that’s 60m x 80% x 1% or 480,000 people dead.

I think the CFR is higher, although not as high as the initial 3.4%. 


If nothing is done then the CFR raises to about 20%.

If people work from home it’ll take years to get to 80%. 

Post edited at 11:08
 neilh 09 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Those numbers are nothing new. Even WEhitty talked about them ages ago. They are similar to the modelling done by Prof Ferguson and his team at Imperial.

 marsbar 09 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

Why do the majority of passport staff need to be in work?  No one is going anywhere right now.  

 neilh 09 Apr 2020
In reply to marsbar:

There are still people flying around. Its a pretty essential document to have.Processing citizens documents like this is essential ( laong with other docs proving who you are), unless you know different.

Next minute you will be trying to say that birth and death certificates are not essential and we may as well shut down those as well.

 DancingOnRock 09 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

Quite. 
 

However, the public are being led to believe that the Government have performed a U-turn and are no longer going for herd immunity.  

 marsbar 09 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

A very small number of people right now.  The majority of people doing so already have a passport.  I'm not saying they shouldn't be available for emergency cases, which as I understand it they are, but those wanting a passport to go to Spain in the summer probably won't be needing it anytime soon.  

Why put people at risk?  The idea of the current situation is to keep people out of offices and public transport to reduce the spread, and off the roads to decrease the load on the NHS from collisions.  

Why  not save money by furloughing he majority of passport workers and closing most of the offices.  

 marsbar 09 Apr 2020
In reply to neilh:

Perhaps some of the passport officers could go and help register deaths.  

I'm not sure what is happening with registering births right now.  

Edit It appears births are not being registered at present and deaths are being registered by phone.  

Post edited at 16:35
 JackM92 10 Apr 2020
In reply to wintertree:

Actually I am currently working as a telephone sanitiser for BT, in one of their emergency call centres. The role is described as ‘touch point cleaner’.
 

We walk around the call centre in high vis vests, constantly cleaning phones, headsets, door handles and keyboards.

Given that a fully booked summer of freelance outdoor work has been cancelled, I’m quite glad that plenty of bullshit jobs have been created 

 The New NickB 10 Apr 2020
In reply to gezebo:

My wife works for the NHS, they are being told not to have their uniforms visible when they travel to and from work, because there have been cases of people being mugged for their ID card.

 Billhook 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

How many times do the government tell us, you can travel to work if the work can't be done from home?

How on earth is an electrician supposed to fix a street light at home?

1
 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Billhook:

I don’t think that was the issue. The issue was whether he was a key worker. This post was started when they closed the schools and issued the key worker descriptions. 

 marsbar 10 Apr 2020
In reply to JackM92:

It's from a book.  Google Douglas Adams if you are interested.  

 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

I want to know why nurses are wearing uniforms outside of hospital. That’s a transmission vector right there.

2
 The New NickB 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Who said anything about nurses and hospitals!

 marsbar 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

Probably because some bean counters somewhere decided to save money by stopping the staff uniforms being washed on site.  

 marsbar 10 Apr 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

Paramedics certainly have to wash their own uniforms at least in some areas.  

 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

You just did. 

2
 The New NickB 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

No I didn’t. My wife isn’t a nurse, she doesn’t work in a hospital.

 DancingOnRock 10 Apr 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

Ok. She just works for the NHS and wears a uniform. Maybe you could have been a bit more specific. Are nurses leaving their uniforms at work now? 

2
 The New NickB 10 Apr 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> Ok. She just works for the NHS and wears a uniform. Maybe you could have been a bit more specific. Are nurses leaving their uniforms at work now? 

 

Why should I have been more specific, it had no bearing on the point that was being made.


I don’t know what nurses laundry arrangements are, I know some nurses, but they are a bit socially distant at the moment.


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