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 balmybaldwin 19 May 2020

I get that Alchohol fuels violence, and is somewhat of a scurge, however I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52717825

Essentially a judge can now hand out a 4month abstinence order for alchohol and the offender is monitored via a bracelet that samples every 30 minutes to see if they have been drinking.

I can see this could be very helpful where a domestic violence issue is around, but even then it seems rather big brotherish

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 gribble 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

I think this is an excellent idea.  The idea been around for years with drug testing orders, so nothing particularly new there.  the alcohol tags will be a choice thing - there are other options available, this one seems to focus on rehabilitation/recovery rather than punishment.  Surely no bad thing.

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 marsbar 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

To get one of these I would imagine probation or youth offending would have to reccomend it in a pre sentence report after speaking to the offender.  I think it's great to have something like this as an option.  

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 marsbar 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

https://www.northyorkshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/aamr/

Full details here. 

As for big brother, the alternative to a tag is probably prison.  Not much privacy there.  

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 girlymonkey 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

I don't see it as any more "big brotherish" than being in prison. Presumably, it is aimed as an alternative to prison for consistent alcohol fueled violence and hopefully backed up with a rehab programme? 

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 wbo2 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin: As above , it seems a very good idea.  The alternatives are prison or effectively  promising not to be a naughty boy and hoping for the best

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 marsbar 19 May 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

It appears to be for those problem drinkers who lose judgement and commit crines when they get drunk but aren't totally   alcohol dependent. Many of them have other programmes alongside the tag, and probation support.  

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 WaterMonkey 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

It's no different to someone misusing a car and getting banned from driving.

Nothing 'Big brotherish' about it.

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In reply to balmybaldwin:

> I get that Alchohol fuels violence, and is somewhat of a scurge, however I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52717825

> Essentially a judge can now hand out a 4month abstinence order for alchohol and the offender is monitored via a bracelet that samples every 30 minutes to see if they have been drinking.

> I can see this could be very helpful where a domestic violence issue is around, but even then it seems rather big brotherish

Taking away a man's right to drink?  It's an Orwellian nightmare!

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I hope my GP never gets wind of this or he'll have one round my ankle in a flash.

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 rj_townsend 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

If scrotes get drunk and commit crimes, I'm all in favour of preventing them drinking. It's a shame its only for four months.

There is nothing big-brother about it - the criminal's behaviour is their responsibility.

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 Oceanrower 19 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> I hope my GP never gets wind of this or he'll have one round my ankle in a flash.

In my experience of GP's, he'll need it more than you...

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 Graeme G 19 May 2020
In reply to rj_townsend:

> If scrotes get drunk and commit crimes, I'm all in favour of preventing them drinking. It's a shame its only for four months.

> There is nothing big-brother about it - the criminal's behaviour is their responsibility.

What if they’re not a scrote?

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 rj_townsend 19 May 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

I've yet to find a drunken criminal who doesn't fit the description.

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to rj_townsend:

A lot of drink drivers don't fit my idea of a scrote ( but they probably wouldn't call themselves criminals, either)

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 Skip 19 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> A lot of drink drivers don't fit my idea of a scrote ( but they probably wouldn't call themselves criminals, either)

scrote

noun

informal•British

noun: scrote; plural noun: scrotes

a contemptible person.

I think drink drivers fit the definition

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 afshapes 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Assuming this isn't for someone with a serious alcohol addiction as abstinence can be lethal

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 rj_townsend 19 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

That’s a shame. They’re pretty high on my list of scrotes/criminals and the courts thankfully tend to agree.

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to Skip:

Fair enough; I had a different picture of scote in mind.

I find Clarkson and O'Leary contemptible but I'd never decribe them as scrotes.

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 Graeme G 19 May 2020
In reply to rj_townsend:

> I've yet to find a drunken criminal who doesn't fit the description.

You’ve been looking? Can think of better things to do with my time.

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 rj_townsend 19 May 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> You’ve been looking? Can think of better things to do with my time.

Clearly.

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 Graeme G 19 May 2020
In reply to rj_townsend:

Was worth a try....,

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 rj_townsend 19 May 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> Was worth a try....,

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 Roadrunner6 19 May 2020
In reply to afshapes:

> Assuming this isn't for someone with a serious alcohol addiction as abstinence can be lethal

But then they should go into detox. For someone with a serious addiction tapering doesn't have a good outcome. 

This just buys time, lets the fog clear and maybe they can make the right decisions and get the help they need.

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 mondite 19 May 2020
In reply to balmybaldwin

As others have said not particular big brotherish if its an alternative to imprisonment and done via the courts. So long as it is backed up by councilling etc could be a fairly effective form of intervention.

Since some people have mentioned drink driving. In some countries a variant on the theme is to modify the car to include a breathalyser. So have them serve the ban and then a further period where their ability to drive is blocked if they drink. Seems a sensible compromise in some cases.

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 Roadrunner6 19 May 2020
In reply to mondite:

> In reply to balmybaldwin

> Since some people have mentioned drink driving. In some countries a variant on the theme is to modify the car to include a breathalyser. So have them serve the ban and then a further period where their ability to drive is blocked if they drink. Seems a sensible compromise in some cases.

Is that not in the UK yet?

Quite common here in the US. A mate got one and would set his off with coffee or mouthwash. He was pretty strict timing wise but still occasionally set his off. I think he had so many false positives allowed though. He eventually got his off. 

It certainly helped for him, he'd have not been able to drive and has just completed his Masters in sociology. Brilliant guy how he's turned his life around. 

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 mondite 19 May 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Is that not in the UK yet?

Last time I looked it hadnt been but seems like it started being trialled in a couple of areas last year. Apparently it was even catered for in law back in 2005 but nothing much got done with it.

I would guess some insurance companies probably offer it as well for people with drink driving records.

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 marsbar 19 May 2020
In reply to afshapes:

It isn’t for anyone who is alcohol dependent.  

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In reply to rj_townsend:

it is, sadly, not just scrotes who commit crimes whilst drunk. Plenty of white collar domestic abusers.

Post edited at 11:00
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 Graeme G 11:42 Wed
In reply to andrew breckill:

That was my point, but he’s not biting.

All depends on who you consider contemptible.

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 marsbar 12:06 Wed
In reply to andrew breckill:

Personally I think an abuser is a scrote regardless of class.  

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In reply to marsbar:

fairpoint. damn maybe i am dailymailed in my thinking.

Post edited at 12:48
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 rj_townsend 12:48 Wed
In reply to andrew breckill:

> it is, sadly, not just scrotes who commit crimes whilst drunk. Plenty of white collar domestic abusers.

What on earth makes you think I'd be excluding them from the description "scrote"?

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