Stanage rope tossers

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Removed User 21 Jun 2020

If someone decided to chuck rocks off the top of Stanage popular end on a sunny and rather crowded day, I think everyone would say it was a bad thing because of the risk of hurting someone below.

So why is a coiled 60m rope ok?

5
 mrphilipoldham 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

I love it when people shout ‘rope!’ or equivalent and just launch it off the top of the crag, as if it absolves them of all responsibility of actually checking if anyone’s down there.

 MG 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

Unlikely to really hurt someone. Doesn't bounce unpredictably. But nonetheless pretty reckless.

30
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

I believe the bridleway doesn't run underneath the crag, so why were you and your high horse there? 

53
 mrphilipoldham 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

It does along the causeway, other than that there is no bridleway above or below the crag (aside the plantation one which just skins some bouldering). Not that it stops bridleway only traffic.. but that’s another thread! 

1
 Kemics 21 Jun 2020
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Or shouting "rope!" mid toss ensuring only those with gunslinger reaction times can do anything about it. 

 Billhook 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

He doesn't say he was with a high horse -  Why are you saying he was!

6
 gethin_allen 21 Jun 2020
In reply to MG:

> Unlikely to really hurt someone...

at ~70g/m a 60m rope would weigh 4.2 kg.

If you had that land on your head from 10 m up you'd certainly notice it.

 Timmd 21 Jun 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

I'm not saying it's not bad form, but I'm thinking that a rope being thrown down tightly coiled like bought from a shop and landing 'all in one lump', could probably feel quite different to a loosely gathered rope landing onto somebody. 

Post edited at 22:27
3
 johncook 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Timmd:

Even the end of a rope hitting you after a 10 m fall can leave a nasty wheal! I somehow manage to hit myself quite often when pulling the rope from clip-ups. But the is preferable to hitting others! What has happened to crag courtesy over the last few years. It was always the practice to check and then shout before throwing a rope, although personally I prefer to lower the rope carefully so it doesn't land in the assorted cans, bottles, finger tape and dog shit, etc that seems to be appearing more and more frequently at the bottom of crags!

 MG 21 Jun 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

Of course. But a rock would kill you.

4
In reply to gethin_allen:

From 10m it's going about 31mph when it hits your head, with an estimated 4kN of force on your neck/spine. 

No thanks  

 Robert Durran 21 Jun 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

> From 10m it's going about 31mph when it hits your head, with an estimated 4kN of force on your neck/spine. 

How did you get that 4kN estimate? 

 Hooo 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Or 31mph? I make it 14m/s, and that's without air resistance.

Edit: in fact only 12.6m/s, assuming your head is 1.8m above the ground.

I'll shut up and go to bed now

Post edited at 23:19
 Robert Durran 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Hooo:

> Or 31mph? I make it 14m/s, and that's without air resistance.

14m/s is about 31mph. I agree with that (without air resistance).

 Hooo 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

So it is. A drunken calculator error...

In reply to Hooo:

14 x 60 x 60 / 1.609 = 31mph

 Rob Parsons 21 Jun 2020
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

> So why is a coiled 60m rope ok?

It isn't okay. Nobody should ever throw a rope down until they are sure that nobody is below.

1
 Hooo 21 Jun 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Yes, I have temporarily lost the ability to do basic arithmetic

But how did you work out 4kN?

Post edited at 23:25
In reply to Robert Durran:

https://www.gigacalculator.com/calculators/impact-force-calculator.php

I used 1 second of impact and a 20cm collision distance as a rough baseline. A rope could hit you in a million ways though depending on many factors, but even if its 1kN it's still a substantial force. I'm no physicist though so my calculations may be way off. 

 Cobra_Head 22 Jun 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

> at ~70g/m a 60m rope would weigh 4.2 kg.

> If you had that land on your head from 10 m up you'd certainly notice it.


Yes, but it doesn't bounce!!!

 Cobra_Head 22 Jun 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

> I used 1 second of impact and a 20cm collision distance as a rough baseline. A rope could hit you in a million ways though depending on many factors, but even if its 1kN it's still a substantial force. I'm no physicist though so my calculations may be way off. 


Have you taken into account the speed of the conveyor belt?

1
 Timmd 22 Jun 2020
In reply to johncook:

> Even the end of a rope hitting you after a 10 m fall can leave a nasty wheal! I somehow manage to hit myself quite often when pulling the rope from clip-ups. But the is preferable to hitting others! What has happened to crag courtesy over the last few years. It was always the practice to check and then shout before throwing a rope, although personally I prefer to lower the rope carefully so it doesn't land in the assorted cans, bottles, finger tape and dog shit, etc that seems to be appearing more and more frequently at the bottom of crags!

I was just coming at it from the physics angle, I'm sure it must hurt still. I was schooled in how to behave by my Dad, and I guess clubs play a part in that too. Hopefully a person with a civilised nature able to think through keeping safe while trad climbing would be able to not disrupt other peoples' days by throwing a rope down on them etc. It's hard to remember what one has been taught and absorbed by osmosis, but it more or less comes down to 'being quiet and self contained'.

Post edited at 01:09
1
 profitofdoom 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> ........Nobody should ever throw a rope down until they are sure that nobody is below.

Right, and what I can't see for the life of me is why anyone would want to chuck one down from the top of Stanage. It's not exactly a long walk down, is it?

 George Ormerod 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> Have you taken into account the speed of the conveyor belt?

But is this an African or European coiled rope?

 peppermill 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

What do you mean? I grew up climbing on the grit and just a assumed dodging coiled ropes launched off the top of the crag then screaming "WTF!!!!!" at the perpetrator was a basic peak district climbing skill? ;p

 Timmd 22 Jun 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> Right, and what I can't see for the life of me is why anyone would want to chuck one down from the top of Stanage. It's not exactly a long walk down, is it?

It probably wouldn't help towards the life of the rope too, in landing where it's sandy where people move about at the bottom and being pulled through that while being sorted out for climbing or being packed away.

Post edited at 12:23
1
 Sean_J 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

A rope landing at your feet is basically crag swag. Maybe the tossers would think twice if their rope was taken away by a crag clean-up crew by the time they got to the bottom.

 Timmd 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Sean_J: I think that just makes the world worse. 

Post edited at 12:24
1
 gravy 22 Jun 2020
In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

Yep, people need to remember that the correct sequence is:

Check, shout, throw

NOT

Throw, shout, check

Or, in the case of Stanage simply carry the rope down with you - it's not really that hard eh?

In reply to Removed UserBilberry:

For a second there I thought the title was a new "nickname" for climbers.


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