UKH

I'm not much of a musician, but I have always been fascinated by it's ability to evoke emotion and the underlying structure.  I've never seen a really convincing explanation of the connection between the two - which appears universal.  Minor keys are sad and sevenths beg for resolution in any language.  Why?

Narrowing the field a bit, some instruments lend themselves to melancholy - saxophone for example.  Is this just because it is a rich sound?  I imagine that that equates to untidy harmonics - lots of subtle sub-notes coming off the reed.  Or is it something else?  Does anyone really know?

When you've given your thoughts on that, how about a sax riff that grabs you ever since you first heard it; what was the circumstance; and why has it stayed with you?

One of mine (!) is Us and Them, from Dark side of the moon; sailing club party; I was 15; first time I kissed a girl (or, strictly, that a girl kissed me).  Still makes my heart skip a beat to hear it.

I don't wish to lower the tone, but saxophones are over rated*. They are the musical equivalent of the BMW. Some see them as cool, classy and moody. And indeed they can be. But, like the beemer, that image attracts a fair number of wannabe's, narcissists and nobs.

I worked as a sound engineer for decade or so, My opinion is based on fact and pent up malice. If you listen to a good sax player, they play very few notes. (I don't mean that facetiously). On a solo, they play the right notes at the right time. What they don't play is just as important as what they do. Others see 8 bars in G, so they can play all these notes, then 8 bars in C so they can play all these others. Don't worry about timing, Charlie Parker didn't.

James Brown had the right idea. Tight like machine. Don't give 'em a chance to free style. Trombones, cornets, trumpets etc, don't have the same image problem.

You were right to pick Us and Them as a classic example of it done brilliantly. I think the sax peaked in '73 and its been in decline ever since.

*Obviously if you play the tenor sax, you're still cool. Chances are you can't play more than two notes, before you run out of breath. So you take care to play the right two notes.

Sonny Rollins on The Stones’ Waiting On a Friend... First time I heard it I was in a shop, remember the moment to this day

Have a like!

beg to differ

youtube.com/watch?v=jMe6Y8GDVEI&

This bloke has more breath than you can shake a stick at.

It's moved on since Dark side of the moon, and 73, at least with classical music, and modern composers, and the likes of Jess Gillam. Possibly more technical, and slightly less of the jazz bending. Debatable.

The music on A Touch of Frost has made me hate the saxophone to the point where it actually makes me irritable when I hear one. Their use should be restricted to Zoot on The Muppet Show.

Hah! Reminds me a bit of How Jazz Works:
http://allowe.com/laughs/book/How%20Jazz%20Works.htm

"Saxophonists think they are the most important players on stage. Consequently, they are temperamental and territorial. They know all the Coltrane and Bird licks but have their own sound, a mixture of Coltrane and Bird. They take exceptionally long solos, which reach a peak halfway through and then just don't stop."

A bizarre thing for me, and this is not some attention-seeking "soundbite" kind of comment but actually a genuine thing that I've pondered and don't understand - is that I just do not like the sound of the saxophone. This is nothing to do with "indulgent solos" or "sick of Careless Whisper". I simply don't like it, in the same way that inexplicably I cannot learn to like eating olives. It can't be a "resonant frequency" thing, as it doesn't cause me pain as such. I know it's my loss and I have a lot of respect for great players as I understand it's a complicated instrument. 
I genuinely end up disappointed when a song I am enjoying, launches into a sax solo (again, I am not saying "indulgent sax solo" here, I just mean "the sax break". eg. Total Control by The Motels)

It seems the only places I can sort of enjoy it, are when it is being deliberately "atonally" (if that is the right word) e.g. some Electrelane songs notably "Gone Darker" where basically a saxophone battles a train klaxon, one of Bjork's mid 1990s songs whose title I forget, and the band Morphine but only for about 10 minutes at a time  

I once had a nightmare about someone giving me a Coltrane concert DVD  

A few years I considered getting a T shirt printed with "I hate woodwind" but I've warmed to the flute, and I think the saxophone (not being wood....) isn't quite woodwind is it, but just a cuckoo in the woodwind nest ?

And apart from a few very busy bits, he plays a 2 or 3 note riff. That's probably because he's oxygen depleted, and trying to 'save up' oxygen for the busy parts or to stop himself fainting. Also, note the quif, the boots, the rolled up trousers, the dancing. Compare and contrast with the trumpet player. Now, I'm not saying he aspires to drive a Beemer...

James Brown used to punish his brass section, when they weren't tight, by docking their wages and spending it on coke and hookers. I think that is a fine example of taking the wind (excuse the pun) out of the sails of any errant saxophonist.

Viz are on my side, in a nice bit of confirmation bias 🤣

Have you tried the 40 day thing? 

There's some good sax in X-ray Spex's music that's very un jazzy and doesn't arse about. 

Thank you for reminding me that I really must properly listen to more X-Ray Spex than just the obvious couple of “hits”. Especially now that the film is out. On a tangent I should listen to some more Penetration given that I’ve been enjoying the Pauline Murray & The Invisible Girls album for nearly 30 years now. 

Cool. And the olives? 

they remain a “no offence, thanks anyway” sort of firm salty bogey for me. And I have lived in Greece! 

When I read your title I assumed you were thinking about learning to play the saxophone.

Why: No idea, maybe to scare the neighbourhood cats?

What: A Saxophone, obviously.

Where: As far away from me as possible

When: Style demands midnight on a warm summer's night when everbody else tries to sleep with their windows wide open....

More seriously, the saxophone on Tom Waite's Closing Time is spot on for every song!

CB

Why?

youtube.com/watch?v=Z7R6C04XD7k&

I can't stand the sound of a saxophone and I think the "cool" given to it is a crime and it is a horrible excuse for the worst kind of jazz noddling.

Brilliant for noodling though.

The most strongly evocative sax moment for me was the first time I heard Bob Holness's epic solo on Baker Street.

I'm with you. I loathe the sound. I can perhaps cope with the soprano sax (particularly if Jess Gillam plays it) but to me alto and below sound like a glorified kazoos.

Wesley McGoogan playing for Hazel O'Conner - 'Will You?'

youtube.com/watch?v=LjxVTwTekw8&

or Lottie B playing sax for Sarah Mai

youtube.com/watch?v=P5oHGa0WmZM&

Apparently John Coltraine said to Miles Davis after he had  played a sax solo-'hey man I just can't stop playing this thing'. And Miles, (the band leader) said-'have you tried taking it out of your mouth'.

Soprano sax in the hands of Wayne Shorter, plus Joni Mitchell's songwriting skills are a spellbinding, beautiful combination.

Some beautiful ensemble playing here with Wayne Shorter.  youtube.com/watch?v=F02mBkBoMQw&

To Allan: Beat me to it...

Still sounds good though.

Status Quo built a career on three chords

Not too fond of the sax I'm afraid, but heard Jess Gillam play the Glazunov saxophone concerto on the radio the other day. Impressed!

That's perfectly alright, just send them all to me! 😆

I do feel there's a time and a place for it.

For example, the Doom Jazz that Bohren & Der Club of Gore wouldn't really work without it, in my view:

youtube.com/watch?v=gJXlZ6SjRI8&

Bit controversial, but if you take out John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderly’s glorious and understated sax parts on the Miles Davis “Kind of Blue album’, you’re left listening to someone playing the trumpet. No one wants that 😂

I'm not fond of it at all but ironically I think the best thing Richard Thompson has ever written and performed is Tear Stained Letter in which a pair of saxes feature very prominently. Almost like zydeco .

youtube.com/watch?v=KJHr2DlRog8&

Any takers for this sort of thing?

The first record I bought that had a sax on it was probably a Hawkwind album.  I can't remember which one it was and to be honest, can't really remember any sax bits on their albums; like various Hawkwind gigs I've been to, the details are fuzzy.

The first sax solo I can remember that hooked me was Mel Collins' solo on Fingertips by Camel.  One take too, I think. And I still listen to it.

Otherwise, if I'm in a sax mood then I'll go to Jan Garbarek.  Some terrific stuff there but my favourite bits are on the Legend of the Seven Dreams album, specifically the opener, He Comes From the North and, especially, Voy Cantando, which for some reason always reminds me of driving down the A832 from Achnasheen to Kinlochewe.

T.

Urban Myth started by Stuart Maconie.  Actually played by Raphael Ravenscroft but brilliant nonetheless.

I love all saxophone and wish I'd learned it instead of clarinet. 

I think Hardonicus knows this. 

youtube.com/watch?v=rHyvcMyO0Nc&

I've been listening to Ill Considered quite a bit during the pandemic

The first track from Ill Considered V stands out in particular 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_FriV37MWU&ab_channel=ProvedRecords

Well, Nik Turner played sax (it's one of the reasons he was invited to join what became Hawkwind), so it could have been any of the early albums. Features on Space Ritual, certainly.

Indeed.  It lit up too, though whether that was audible on the records is doubtful.

T.

George Michael

'Careless Whisper'

Says all you need to know about sax

Yes, but I didn’t so thanks Graeme for the enlightenment 😛

1979 Glastonbury Festival, I had the misfortune to sit through a set by Nik Turner’s Sphynx. It was a sunny Saturday afternoon, but even that didn’t make up for the experience. I think you had to be in a particular state of mind which I obviously wasn’t.😂