UKH

From all I've read and seen he seems a steady sort of bloke - could it be that he actually makes it PM and we finally have someone with brains, principles and character - a genuine 'one nation' Tory? As a lifelong Labour supporter I think I could settle for that.

I like him but anyone who still thinks Brexit of any hue is good for the country is either an idiot, self-serving or some sort of nationalist loon.

That's a reasonable point... But it has created such deep divisions that maybe only a semi-cynical fudge around a customs union will work, to take the wind out of die-hard Brexiter's sails and not damage our economy too much while we wait to reapply for membership in a few years time...

He has, in the past, voted on government lines for some fairly iniquitous things - like the interment and deportation of child refugees. He's also been rising due to the supportive/loyal stance he's taking under Teresa May.

If he has strong principles, they're adaptable according to convenience. Which suggests his character is, at best, asinine. 

Apart from that, he's locally popular (Penrith) and seems more capable than some of his colleagues. I couldn't get excited about him, though.

Nothing will, those tw*ts will still be whinging about the EU long after we have left so a CU will be seen only as a halfway house.

Our economy is being damaged daily, going back in won't fix that, any company that has relocated it's hq abroad won't come back, any job that has moved abroad won't come back, any doctor or nurse who has returned to the EU won't come back.

He doesn't think that Brexit is a good idea in its own right, only that given where we are now, remaining is worse. About which he may well be right. I quite like the bloke, he's seems more intelligent and more sincere than most other politicians I can name. (Personally, I would rather gouge out my own eyes with a spoon than vote Tory, but options are pretty thin on the ground at the moment.)

That's why he's got no chance.

Is that why she shifted him from the Prison Minister post so that he won't have to resign when his policy fails?

His book about Iraq is excellent.

When I see him I can't help the phrase "You dirty rotten swine, you have deaded me!" getting into my head.

Showing your age, Dude!

Afghanistan. A very good book indeed. He does seem rather misplaced in the conservative party.

Edit Just looked him up - I hadn't realised he'd written on Iraq too, apologies for pedantry.

The Places in Between is the one I've read

And his Afghanistan one is superb.

Having had the pleasure of his company I can say without any doubt he is a nice man, but I also think he trusts what his seniors tell him and that’s not a good trait - the head of BT fobbed him off with some quite ridiculous costs for installing fibre optic cable over a three mile distance and he quite happily trotted it out as being fact. If anyone actually believes digging a three mile trench across fields and the filling it in again costs £750,000 you have to wonder at their credulity (even BT’s price list had it at less than £20,000) . His almost slavish support for Teresa Mays Brexit deal is another good example, almost everyone doesn’t like it even if they voted for it, but Rory is cheerleader in chief for this noxious deal, who says brown nosing doesn’t pay off - seems to be working for Rory. I don’t think he’s a Leader, he’s a follower.

He supported the Iraq war and even went there as an illegal invader with the army ffs

'His responsibilities included holding elections, resolving tribal disputes, and implementing development projects' (Wiki)

… And he later publically changed his mind - something politicians aren't supposed to do.

He’s done that in Raffles too!

Stewart, while clearly no idiot, is the ultimate Establishment candidate - just look at his background.

But he has supported some nasty policies, and is also not shy of making 'facts' up to suit whatever it is that he finds himself currently supporting - see e.g. the 80% incident ( youtube.com/watch?v=fBACnsUsqtU& )

So far, he has generally gotten a remarkably easy and sycophantic ride from the press. But how much there really is to this man is another question; as is what he really thinks.

We might find out more when the blood-letting of  a Tory leadership contest begins ...

My impression of Rory is that he's intelligent, articulate, politically moderate, but with a fair dose of pragmatism, and believes compromise can often be a good thing, rather than an evil of last resort. I'm not convinced these characteristics make him party leader/prime minister material, to judge by recent examples.

He wrote a second even better book, about his time with the administration in Iraq. Laughable descriptions of the Italian army (living up to expectations) and just how far wide of the mark the press can be, were standout sections.

I sat opposite Rory the tory on a train once, wishing I had a stash of drug paraphernalia and /or pornography to throw on the table and photograph him before he could leave. 

He was very odd, climbed over the passenger blocking his way rather than saying excuse me. 

Tell me more (I haven't read the book) about those 'expectations'? Was it stuff about how inept and cowardly the Dagoes were, in contrast to the superlatively professional Brits? Or were there perhaps some more reflective analyses?

I don't usually have anything to do with politics (way above my head) but....

I live in Penrith and when I was about ten he came round to a homeschooling gathering (I was one of those kids) and chatted to us a bit about what he does. From what I can remember he was a really nice bloke, and the act of coming to talk to a small group of kids makes me think he's somewhat genuine (for a politician!)

There are quite a few up and coming younger Tories with good ideas. Usually ex military  

And for balance there are in the Labour Party as well .

just hope that on both sides they break through and then we might get somewhere. 

Excellent food but sandbags built up so high they couldn’t depress a machine gun low enough to engage the enemy etc. 

Playing to stereotypes or accurate reflection? Dunno, I wasn’t there and I didn’t write it. Don’t know what’s got your dander up but the Brits didn’t come out too well either if that makes you feel any better.

He writes well, I’ll give it a go. Thanks.

Oh, my dander isn't up. I was merely reacting to your phrase 'Laughable descriptions of the Italian army (living up to expectations)', and wondering what (and whose) those 'expectations' were.

In Iraq? No shit!

Can't help it if all the common cultural tropes associated with the Italian army have managed to completely pass you by. Perhaps you should get out more?

No, in the book that you were enquiring about. Perhaps you should read it, then you could take Stewart to task about his factual inaccuracies. Just out of interest, do you often throw around pejorative racial terms while picking fights on the internet or have I just caught you on a bad night?

I thought it was the Ukrainians who hid... but I read Prince of the Marshes around the same time as Revolt on the Tigris by Mark Ehterington, and I might be mixing what I remember from both of them.

I saw Italian units (might have been Carabinieri or army, not sure) patrolling the road through no mans land when I crossed from Kosovo into what was still just about Yugoslav Montenegro (it was still JNA on the road block on that side) in 2001. They seemed to be doing their job perfectly competently, but I was tickled by the fact they were all wearing ultra-cool wrap around civvy Oakley shades and they all had these big black ostrich feathers in their kevlar helmets! Somehow very Italian. I just presumed that they never needed to be in trenches, because you could imagine if they did the effect would be pretty comical.

These lads maybe?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bersaglieri

in which case capercaillie feathers!

I was recently peripherally involved in the filming of a big budget TV series. A number of extras were performing the roles of a police close protection team and, after some basic weapons handling/situational awareness instruction, they appeared perfectly competent. Not sure how they'd have faired if people had started shooting at them though.

I've never worked with the Italian military, never seen them deployed (beyond walking past perfectly competent looking units on the streets of Rome). I was just commenting on the impression given in a book I read over a decade ago.

I think I remember the same scene in the book about them not being able to point their guns down! My point was more about how funny the feathers were more than anything else.

So were you in the Bodyguard then? Is Keeley Hawes as sexy as she seems in that show!?

could well have been!

Getting waaaay ahead of himself.  Barely been appointed and talking positioning-for-PM talk.  Also, rarther easy to say that you'll be "radical but in the middle ground" and "bring the country together"; rather harder to deliver.  I thought he came across as pretty naive in the BBC interview.

I'm sure Keeley Hawes would live up to even the most demanding of expectations. Unfortunately I only got up close with that Begbie bloke off Trainspotting.

I find his unwavering support for May's deal a bit hard to stomach but the loyalty he appears to show for her is probably a better character trait than the treacherous lying and rabble rousing displayed by many of his parliamentary colleagues.

However, if we're going to have him as leader of the Conservative party we need to level the playing field a little and replace Corbyn with Jess Phillips too. PMQs would be a riot.

What I can say from observation of their mountain troops at camp in Langdale is that the men rise at a moderately early hour in preparation for their days in the hills and that when said have departed camp the officers appear sleepily around 9am for ablutions and a hearty breakfast later.

This was the time they were sent to Langdale as the Royal Anglians were unable to host them because of having to police the Greenham Common women.  The famous snuff box collection at the ODG bar was given away to them as an act of international friendship - a great hearty evening enjoyed by all.

Ah so he didn't go with the British Army divisions there to finish off the sanctions genocide, steal all the oil and wealth, balkanize Iraq into ethnic areas, kill a few thousand Iraqis, throw kids into canals to drown, create terrorism and contribute to only 120,000 Iraqi Christians out of 1.5 million remaining there. 

I didn't realize the British Army had a peace and love regiment that fired biscuits out of their guns rather than bone shredding bullets when they illegally invaded a country to create utter hell, steal and carve it up.

And that it all becomes OK if you say I think it was a mistake. 

I agree, despite being a Labour/Liberal/Green voter depending on the situation.

I have had direct dealings with Rory centering around my (non military) time in Afghanistan. He was a mine of useful information and contacts. He has also written two exceptional books - The Places Inbetween and Occupational Hazards. Anyone who has walked alone for several months across Afghanistan in the aftermath of the fall of the Taliban deserves kudos. Out of the entire shitshow of senior Tories he is the one person I could trust.

You sound as if you don't understand the question, let alone anything about politics, Afghanistan or history.

For a politician to admit they got something wrong is deeply unusual, but perhaps you might like to read The Places In Between by Mr Stewart before adding more to this thread.

I really can't be bothered taking this on point by point. It's just bollocks.

Perhaps you should consider the reception afforded to British troops by indigenous populations from the Falklands to Sierra Leone to Bosnia? Perhaps you should compare and contrast civilian experiences with Britain's soldiers and with those of your beloved Uncle Joe's?

I think it was a mistake too. Why should me or Stewart or anybody else, thinking it a mistake equate with "it all becomes OK" ?

Lol I understand all of those very well thanks and my point was about his part in the war crime, theft, mass murder and destruction committed by an illegal invading army in Iraq not Afghanistan. 

It is a start but he took part in that war crime so why on earth would you even dream of making him a pm? 

No its all 100% true other than the balkanization part as that wasn't realized fully and they got a part of that done in 1991.

But we are talking about this army character and his part in illegally invading a sovereign nation not anything else. 

As far as I see it anyone who was a participant of that illegal invasion and all the crimes there of should be barred from being an mp never mind a pm, same goes for those who voted to invade Iraq. 

Do that then it goes some way to making amends and genuinely showing that you think it was not just " a mistake" but a war crime and blatant imperialism with all the mass murder, atrocities, robbery and utter destruction as well as the severe traumatisation for generations of Iraqis that it undoubtedly was. 

You're really big on '100% true' claims based on 'shit wot I have seen on t'internet'. You been out there? know anyone who has? 

You don't do yourself any favours when you post stuff like this. Stewart has had a long and varied career which included 5 months in the Black Watch nearly 30 years ago. Describing him as 'this army character' has about as much validity as characterising me as 'international drug smuggler' cos I inadvertently brought half a spliff back from Amsterdam in 1989.

He didn't participate in any invasions. 

I certainly think that those who instigated the invasion should be called to account in a court of law, but to characterise the entire British army as genocidal, mass murders is enormously insulting to the vast majority of service personnel who found themselves in a shitty position, with shitty tasking and just tried to make the best of a bad job.

Edit:typo.

Yes I know 2 who have and both ex army. You don't have to go to China to know there are over a billion people there. 

Stewart was a senior coalition official in Iraq in 2003–04.[4] He is known for his book about this experience. 

So in 2003 and 2004 he was invited into Iraq by Iraqis then? 

I'm not saying every person in that invasion and occupation was committing atrocities as clearly the majority probably weren't. What I am saying is that this illegal invasion did result in everything I stated and many did carry out atrocities. It's different innit but apologies if I didn't state that clearly. 

So tell me, either of these 2 confess to you that they went "there to finish off the sanctions genocide, steal all the oil and wealth, balkanize Iraq into ethnic areas, kill a few thousand Iraqis, throw kids into canals to drown, create terrorism and contribute to only 120,000 Iraqi Christians out of 1.5 million remaining there."?  Your own words.

You do understand the difference between 'coalition official' and 'army'. They aren't the same job. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

Dunno? I had a job in Wigan last week, can't say that I was invited in by the people of Wigan though but I definitely didn't invade Wigan. Going to work somewhere other than your home town/country does not automatically mean you're invading.

Did the British army aim to commit Genocide?

Did they go there to steal all the money and wealth?

Did they go to balkanise Iraq?

Create terrorism?

Remove Christians?

Maybe you should ask your two friends?

That is what did happen when the British Army illegally invaded Iraq. One of them who had been back there repeatedly on many" tours" did say that yes they knew fine well why they were going and it was to rob the place and do what they wanted and that British people should be thankful for it as it brings us benefits. The other said he wanted to kill Muslims. 

I didn't say they were but he was ex-army then went as a senior official to oversee shit in a British occupying military compound in foreign country that his country had just invaded and murdered many people. 

Were your pals kicking peoples doors in and dragging innocent people away to be tortured before you went to Wigan, oh and stealing all their riches and bombing hel out of the place? 

No

Yes

They would follow orders

They wound follow orders

No

The effects of the British army illegally invading created ALL of these conditions and tons more which will have horrific effects on Iraqis for many generations to come. 

I can’t say I’m surprised that you seem to attract nutters.

I’m afraid you’re displaying your ignorance again. It was a civilian compound and security was provided by the Italian army.

No. We reserve fun and games like that for Friday nights.

Again, you’re displaying your ignorance. Much of the area of Iraq that the British army were responsible for had a majority Shia population. They initially welcomed the coalition as liberators. Then things went to shit.

Every so often, I catch myself warming to Rory Stewart. Then I remember what a pillar of the establishment he is and how much of his background polishes skills in deception. 

Yes I get that. But there again, he did wander through Afghanistan by himself; enterprising and brave 

Given the appalling bunch of lunatic and inadequate alternatives we are faced with, he at least seems seems sane and worldly-wise, and in that context I hope to hell he gets it. He could be a safe pair of hands, particularly if he has the nous to tap into public opinion and quietly drop Brexit.