UKH

Hi all

Curious to know if it is appropriate to reuse ffp1 dust masks after say 3 days kept in isolation to use in the context of protecting others from me from a possible Covid 19 perspective, such as on public transport/ shopping.

Obviously if worn for dusty environments I would always dispose of after single use but as it is in order to prevent me possibly spreading a virus that only survives max 3 days? on surfaces, would it be ok to reuse if kept dry and isolated. 
Query comes from needing to wear glasses and struggling to purchase any new masks currently with a good fit and downward facing exhaust valve, simple face coverings tend to steam my glasses. The masks I have fit and work well but I am nearly out so was wondering whether reuse was an option?

cheers Chris

If they have no metal you could try microwaving them as well as rotating perhaps 4 masks. We have surgical masks which are reusable and can autoclaved that really surprised me that they were intact afterwards, so it might be worth trying some different techniques for reuse.

It's official!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/decontamination-...

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html

Masks with exhaust valves do not protect others from you, only yourself. I was told to change my FFP2 mask today when I was in the town hall (in  Germany where masks are compulsory).

It's not as clear cut as you suggest. The air exhaled through the vent is still filtered and valved masks are used in clinical settings to protect both clinician and patient. Saying that, I know that one of the big manufacturers is currently investigating to determine if vented masks present any increased risk to those other than the wearer.

Edit: should clarify. I'm referring to the typical disposable FFP respirators, not non-disposable industrial respirators.

Or it´s not as clear cut as you suggest! I´ve FFP1 and 2 masks from Honeywell, 3M and Berner and not one has any filtering at all in the exhaust valve. Possibly some for special surgical use have exhaust filtering but generic ones don´t.

Apologies, I stand corrected. While vented ffp3s are still being issued they've recently (May 15th) been flagged up as a possible cause of concern by one British clinical body. 

https://www.baoms.org.uk/_userfiles/pages/files/professionals/covid_19/baom...

One of the big manufacturers you mentioned are currently conducting trials to see if they present a risk to patients, but a close examination of one of my own respirators shows that sharply exhaled breath does indeed result in unfiltered air escaping. Thanks for the info and I shall alter my own usage accordingly.

When I was trained to be a Fit Tester for FFP3 masks by Easimask, the rep stated that their valved masks only protect the wearer.

Granted, this was back in 2017, but was still the case 10 months ago.

3M have a 'shrouded' valve system that protects both wearer, and others around you, but these are more expensive than their conventional valves masks, and I cannot see them making an appearance when NHS Procurement can get hold of expired, possibly cheap, masks and simply bang a sticker on them and make them new again.

The shrouded ffp3s are currently issued (alongside non-vented). It was one of these that I was just looking at. The shroud directs exhaled air downwards which is probably fine if you’re  out shopping, but could be problematic if treating a patient.
 

Edit: tip of the blade in the photo shows where the valve lifts on exhalation.

Does it have 'SV' after the number? I'm on my phone and cannot make it out from th the photo. Have you cut the 'shroud' off? That would explain the knife!

If you've been issued with them, then I'm heartened that your particular employers are unwilling to compromise on PPE.

Even though I accept that supply problems have been unprecedented, I find it incredibly difficult to offer my reassurances to my staff when we have been given expired kit, since the very idea of using anything past it's use by date on patients would be completely unacceptable.

No SV but it is an FFP3. The shroud is in place, blades just to demonstrate positioning of vents and filter.

The issue with out of date kit isn't the huge problem it first appears. The first component to perish is the elasticated straps leading to a loose seal. When new dates have overlaid the initial dates it's because stock has been revalidated as fit for purpose.

Is there any plastic on the mask?  If so I'd say 5 days or wipe that down with alcohol. 

I presume the mask itself is similar to fabric or paper and would be ok after 3 days.  

Could you spray it with alcohol solution?  

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-covid-19-how-long-does-the-coro...

I'm not doubting that it's an FFP3, it's just that it is a conventional valve, and not shrouded, therefore it only protects the wearer and not the patient or your colleagues.

https://www.6thplanet.com/store/technical/pdf/3m1863_Infection%2520Preventi..." target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" id="guid-5edac0d4359ef" class="counterlink">https://www.6thplanet.com/store/technical/pdf/3m1863_Infection%2520Preventi..." target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" id="guid-5edac29f91454" class="counterlink">https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.6thplanet.com/store/technical/pdf/3m1863_Infection%2520Preventi...

I have seen FFP3 masks re-stickers that expired in 2017. Are you not the tiniest bit sceptical? Have you not wondered why this re-validation process for expired stock has not been used wholesale for anything else? Think of how much money could be saved on expired medications, for example, which would simply be discarded.

I totally understand that shortages have been unprecedented, and this is a global problem, and owt's better than nowt. Even though positive COVID admissions are decreasing, healthcare workers are still incredibly anxious of contracting it, especially my BAME colleagues. In the current climate, I find that particularly affecting.

To the OP: sorry for the hijack.

My particular worry about re-use would be if the mask could be salvaged after a certain period. By that, I mean there's a real problem with the mask becoming ineffective due to condensation from exhaled breaths, effectively becoming 'wetted out', like a waterproof. A mask could certainly be dried out, but I don't know if it will have suffered some sort of permanent damage.

Ok, I get you on the shrouded versions. Your link isn't linking to anything but the current work around we have is wearing a surgical over an ffp3.

Not really, haven't seen any noticeable physical degradation in kit I've used with best before dates of 2006 and I've spoken to people doing in house portacount testing on that kit who've found it performing as well as new stock. Analysis of pharmacological use by dates is also revealing:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-dates-do-the...

but, of course, there isn't a worldwide shortage of medications that's driving a rethink on expiry dates.

Portacount fit testing is obviously empirical, but that's only for 7 minutes, and that doesn't tell you what it will be like in 3-4 hours time; I've had to wear one for longer than this, and so have most of my colleagues in high risk areas.

NHS England have reassured us that all of this expired stock has undergone stringent and prolonged testing, and any that are not up to scratch are destroyed and will not be distributed. But how stringent and how prolonged?

Interestingly, I thought I'd take a look at PHE guidance for ambulance crews:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-ambulance-...

(Hope the link works this time)

They do not advise wearing a fluid resistant surgical mask over an FFP3 mask (Section 3.1) so unless you use separate Type 1 masks, I'd be concerned about this. My rationale would be that all those layers could potentially make breathing difficult, especially for those staff with respiratory conditions (I'm assuming that only those with serious issues have been taken off the run).

I think we can both agree that this is something that we are not going to agree on.

Tomorrow morning, I will be fit testing 2 of my staff in a high risk area, both over 50, both with more around their middle than they would like, both with underlying medical conditions, both African.

For me, it's one thing to trust the kit for your own use, it's quite another when you have to look your colleagues in the eye and tell them they will be safe.

Best we've got to go by though

I wouldn't trust the guidelines as far as I could chuck a bariatric patient.

HaHa, tell me about it. Just this week I had 40 minutes on scene attending an arrest in full PPE.

You might be surprised. I've spent so much time on here venting about the ridiculous state of our PPE guidelines that I've bored myself all the way round to dismal acceptance. My only dog in this particular fight is that some issues (like use by dates) are at least nuanced.

I don't trust the guidelines. I don't attend CV19 patients wearing just a surgical mask, which PHE and NHS England insist is adequate and I'm well aware I'm not safe. My base station is home to about 70 frontline staff, fifteen of who fit my particular demographic of males in their 50's. So far two of them have ended up with CV19 prompted prolonged stays in ICU, one on a ventilator. Both report considerable post discharge problems with lung function. Neither can see themselves being able to return to work any time soon.

Viruses seem to be typically killed by exposure to temperatures of around 60-70C, some are more resistant but other coronaviruses seem to be killed by temps of this order so you could stick your masks in the oven at at say 100 (not that hot for an oven) for half an hour which should do the trick.

Do some research into temperature and killing viruses and go for an overkill time and temp (without frying your mask). Or as others have said, leave them aside for a few days before re-use.

Thank you to everyone for the detailed and in depth replies, far more informative and diverse opinion than I could have discovered on my own.

My own circumstances are not working in a medical environment but I do enter areas with vulnerable people but I can maintain social distance ok. Due to the shape of my nose and glasses, the simple cloth surgical  type masks feel a very poor fit to my face and mist up my glasses on breathing out, the ffp1 masks I have access to fit well and the vent is downwards and towards my chin. I am grateful to the comments about the risk of the unsheilded exhaust vents, I am surprised I had not considered this risk myself previously.

I have enough ffp1 masks to rotate every 5 days, so thinking of using them in rotation after a period of isolation and being mindful that the exhaust vent direction. Does a good fit and the ability to see justify the compromise over the vent, please remember I am not in a clinical setting and take my hats of to those of you where these issues are a far greater risk than my own situation.

thank you again

Chris