UKH

Hiya - question for the floor.

We've had some work done on our house. The builder subcontracted the scaffolding to a third party, and paid in advance. Whilst the building work is now finished the scaffolding has been left up... for weeks, despite us being told it would be removed.

The builder's view is that he has informed the scaffolding company that the scaffold is no longer wanted, but his view is that it is out of his hands, however refuses to give me the name of the scaffolder [no scafftag].

We want the scaffold gone for a whole load of reasons - privacy, security, nuisance, wanting to actually use the ourside of our house, wanting to to put cars on the drive, etc.

I am assuming that the scaffold company will want to leave it there until they have another job for it to go to.

What can I do? Thoughts welcome. We are witholding a substantial amount of cash from the builder until the scaffold has gone, but he's not really giving the impression he cares.

Note that I am well aware that there's a lot of illegal things I can do. I don't want to do these. My options are, as far as I can see:

1) Get someone else to take it down. Problem is that local firms tend not to want to step on eachother's toes, so probably not a solution. I've had a local reputable firm say they woudn't touch it.

2) Take it down myself - dodgy, and I've still got to store it.

3) Inform HSE that I'm worried about the safety of a scaffold on my property. A bit nuclear.

4) Write to builder saying that I'll be charging him a daily fee for storage. Actually I like him and want him on our side, and that doens't actually get rid of the scaffold.

5) Go to court and get an order of specific performance against the builder and/or scaffold company to take it down. Very Expensive and Nuclear.

6) Find out the scaffolder (ring round local firms) and offer them £500 in cash if the scaffold is off the property within 48 hours. Subtract £500 from the amount due to the builder.

Any other ideas?

In reply to John_Hat:
I'd do number 6 but not offer the money, ie politely ask them to come and remove it.

No point in offering money if you possibly don't have to.

In reply to John_Hat:

I had a load of scaffolding left on my house for ages, I think the guy did it as a cash in back pocket job with the company's gear.
I just took it down myself and sold it.

In reply to Timmd:



Well, the net cost to me is zero as I'm taking money I would have given to the builder and giving it to a scaffolder.

In reply to John_Hat:

Whist having a vociferous conversation with a friend, and strolling through the nearest encampment of jovial travelling folks, say to him "Will no one rid me of this turbulent scaffolding?!"

In reply to John_Hat:

My brother had a similar problem in a rented house, and the landlord wasn't interested in pursuing it. Despite having no right to do so, he decided to sort it out.
He found out, as you did, that local firms won't touch anyone else's scaffolding. So he found out he name of the firm and told them he would get it taken down and sold if it wasn't gone within a week. "No one round here will touch it" they told him. "I've got some mates from up North who rob building sites and they don't give a f@@k" he replied ( complete lie). It was gone in a couple of days.

In reply to John_Hat:


Legally your contract is with the builder, so it is his responsibility; if he subcontracts then the subcontract is still his responsibility.

In reply to Coel Hellier:


Agreed. However the impression I get is that I could sue him into oblivion and that *still* wouldn't get rid of the scaffolding.

In reply to John_Hat:

Withholding payment from the builder worked for us. Never pay a builder till its really finished was a lessen learnt on the job before that.

In reply to John_Hat:

Email the builder and tell him you're putting it on eBay as buyer disassembles if it ain't gone in a week. If he wants to use the same scaffolder again he'll pass the email on.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

More information (from a conversation between Lady Blue and the builder) indicates the builder has said that basically, our house is a small job for the scaffolder, he's not got any leverage. Hence it's up to the scaffolder as to when he arrives, and the builder can't nag him.

To SouthernSteve.

Yup, we've actually got nearly half the total amount still to pay.

In reply to John_Hat:

If both of you work during the day, e-mail HSE anonymously as a concerned resident, to say kids have been seen playing on scaffold during the day.

When they turn up, plead total ignorance, but point them in the direction of your builder who has responsibility for the site, telling them I'm sure I saw a risk assessment mentioning scaffolding x weeks ago.

In reply to John_Hat:

If it has been weeks and he is not sorting it I would contact the hse. No scaf tag is a big problem that they might be interested in.
Give your builder notice that if it isn't gone by said date you will be talking to the hse really the lack of scaf tags.
There is a strong possibility that it's not a legitimate install anyway. No decent company would eave it without a tag.

If you want to try track the company down look at the boards, most of the scaffold companies that I come across on site stencil or burn the company name on the boards.

In reply to John_Hat:

True, but it could make things easier with the other fellow if you don't deduct money from him along the line, and be a more harmonious approach, I think that was at the root of my thinking.

I'm not implying you're wrong to be annoyed.

In reply to Dax H:


Thanks! shall look tomorrow...

In reply to Timmd:
Yes, I would like harmonious if at all possible. We like the builder and he does a bl**dy good job, and importantly goes the extra mile to make thigs just right. There's not that many of those.

For example, he sourced 1930s original doors for the new extension so they blended in with the old house, and custom built the frames to fit. We didn't ask him to do this.

In reply to John_Hat:

Talk to the builder. Explain your exasperation and ask him what should you do? If you get a shrugged shoulders.
You can say you've had all sorts of suggestions, including blah blah blah, but would rather a better solution.

If he's a reasonable builder and his reputation and money are at stake, he'll do something. If not then you'll have to send an official letter. Being taken to court over something menial is more hassle than its worth fighting it.
If you plan on docking him money, then you have to agree it or have it in writing or in reality you still owe him the money if he has finished the job.

In reply to John_Hat:

I don't know much about building, and know even less about Scaffolding. However I do know that Scaffolders are hard as nails - just don't get yourself into a fight with them!

In reply to John_Hat:

Does your builder belong to a professional trade body? They also have a complaints procedure and offer support to disgruntled customers.

In reply to Kevster:


My general view here is that he's not finished the job if the house still looks like a builders yard.

My current plan is to write to him (recorded delivery) stating that

(1) We are upset at the situation for these (list) reasons. Also, that we are concerned over the safety of the scaffolding.

(2) We understand we have a number of options. Take it down ourselves, get someone else to do it, go legal, etc.

(3) We don't want to go legal, but if we have to do this to get building equipment moved off the property then we will.

(4) That we feel we are incurring the legal expenses essentially because he has not supervised the scaffolding company in an appropriate manner, and hence will be be reducing his fee acordingly.

(5) We would really rather that the scaffolding is removed by either the scaffolding company or himself, and that this would be a better solution for all concerned.

In reply to Kevster:

Good question - possibly.

In reply to John_Hat:

Having scaffold on your house after a job is finished is a major inconvenience. Unfortunately a lot of scaffold companies try to not remove it from a job until they have a another job in the area that they can use it on. It means they don't have to take it back to their yard so saves them time and money. When I've needed scaffold part of the negotiation is that they take it down within two days of the job being completed. Not helpful for you now but worth bearing in mind in the future.

I'd suggest that you don't get involved in removing it yourself / getting it removed by someone else. The kind of people who run a dodgy scaffold outfit are generally not people who would respond well to that approach.

I would go with the threat of the legal route. Ask the builder nicely again while also telling him that your solicitor needs the details of the scaffold company and that if it is not removed within 48 hours you solicitor will be contacting him and the scaffold company to start legal action. That might motivate them to shift it.
Good luck.

In reply to Dax H:

As Dax H says the lack of a scaf tag is a big problem. This from the HSE website:
"Q. Must I use a tag system on a scaffold?
A. Although tag systems are not a legal requirement, the law does require inspection of scaffolding from which a person might fall 2 metres or more and the issue of a report by a competent person, on completion and at least weekly thereafter. "

So if the scaf has been left uninspected for more than a week then it's in breach of the Working at Height regulations. And the builder should be very interested because:
"It is the scaffold users / hirers responsibility to ensure that all scaffolding has been inspected as follows:
following installation / before first use
at an interval of no more than every 7 days thereafter"

In reply to csambrook:
I expect the ladder has been removed if not in use and the scaffold should display an incomplete sign. The builder could/will almost certainly have his statutory scaffold inspection register with him. As said, the tag is not essential.
The colour of the paint used to mark the tubing is an identifier of the company. There is a register of which colours apply to which companies I think. The equipment is sometimes hired in though by smaller companies.

In reply to John_Hat:

Email him, tell him you've had legal advice (even though you haven't).

Tell him your contract is with him and he is responsible for his sub contractors.

Tell him you want it removing by a certain date.

Tell him if it isn't done by then you have it removed and charge him for doing it. (make a price up if you like)

In reply to all:

OK, I've now had legal advice, and it looks like a local firm of solicitors are happy to help.

I suspect that a email to the builder asking for "the name and address of the scaffolding company as we need to give this to our lawyers" might create an interesting response.

The point made by csambrook is a good one. The scaffolding has not been inspected. I will suggest that the solicitor mentions the health and safety concerns in the letter.

In reply to Andrew Wilson, the ladder has indeed been removed however there is no incomplete sign. There is also bits of scaffolding tat plus a few poles - long and short - littering the ground underneath the scaffolding.

In reply to John_Hat:
I'm an ex scaffolder and I'm not as hard as nails.

Most scaffolding companies mark their gear as someone else has said. The tubes may have colours on them. And the board end metal straps may be marked with the company name.

Provided you don't live near thousands of scaffolding companies, a quick look round their yards my give you a clue.

However, if something is left on your property I'm pretty certain it will belong to you IF you make "reasonable" attempts to trace the owners. Which you are doing, so you may wish to ensure that you've made some enquiries, preferably in writing, 1st to the builder, which will be evidence that you have done so.

Many scaffolders work also for themselves, so putting the word out that you have some scaffolding for them if they want to remove it.............etc.,

Failing that, a small add in the local paper - "Scaffolding for Sale" buyer must remove, sort of thing, should do the trick/..

In reply to John_Hat:

How long exactly is it since he informed them it was no longer required ? I think you maybe jumping the gun with legal action. If your really happy with the work the builders done why end on bad terms, I'd just phone him and tell him there was some guy with a hi-vis and clip board wandering around when you got home because someone's made a complaint, and he was asking about an inspection log, I bet you its down within 48 hours.

In reply to John_Hat:
Tell the builder to tell the scaffolder you will flog it on ebay if it's not gone in 2 days

Or put it on ebay and send the builder the link

In reply to John_Hat:

Tell a passing traveller community that it's scrap, it'll be gone overnight but you may not have roof left either

In reply to all...

So, the scaffolding has gone. However in the case of others being in the same position I now know what to do in the future, so I'll repeat what I was advised here.

1) Via a registered post/special delivery letter withdraw consent for the scaffolding to be on your land. Give them a shortish period (days) to remove.

2) Follow up with a solicitors letter stating that unless the scaffolding is gone by xxxx time on xxxx day then we will be issuing proceedings in the county court, claiming damages for private nuisance and trespass, plus also will be persuing them for storage costs and also legal costs.

Our solicitor was of the view that they would be insane if they let it go to court, and that a fee of £50 per day for storage, £100 per day for nuisance and £100 per day for trespass was perfectly acceptable.