UKH

Hi,

We've just had the garage converted and as the walls are external on three sides, the builders put in a thick later of celotex insulation with plasterboard on top. My problem is that I need to pop up a curtain pole with fairly heavy curtains hanging off it. What fixings do I need? I've seen some that expand behind the plasterboard to spread the load but I worry that the celotex will prevent these from expanding properly. And will they hold the weight? I might be worrying about nothing but I don't want to rip holes in my nice new walls.

Cheers,

David.

Options :

Fix straight through into the blockwork behind with these :

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-countersunk-concrete-screws-7-5-x-120m...

(pick a length = celotex thickness + plasterboard + 50-60mm)

They aren't great in thermalite block. Go for +80-100mm if the blocks are lightweight. 

Use a plasterboard expansion anchor :

https://www.screwfix.com/p/gripit-plasterboard-fixing-25-x-205mm-25-pack/63...

These are quite good. Other options available, umbrella fixings etc.

celotex won't take any weight.

The builders probably (should have anyway) fitted timber upright battens between rectangles of celotex.  Find out where these are, maybe with an electronic stud detector.  Mount a horizontal batten over the plaster board screwed through it into the vertical battens, fix the curtain rail to your new horizontal batten.  I hope this works

https://www.screwfix.com/p/corefix-metal-original-heavy-duty-dot-dab-wall-f...

The celotex might be an issue using any fixing that expands behind the plasterboard.

I've used these before, and was surprised how much weight they'll take:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/fischer-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-metal-35...

+1 for these. You have to be careful putting them in, slightly overtighten and you just have a hole in your plasterboard. But if you do it right you can hang loads of weight on them. I've put 20kg screens on the wall with just these.

In contrast, I think those Gripits recommended upthread are shit. I've never found a situation where they will fit, and they definitely won't work with Celotex behind the plasterboard.

Plasterboard plugs from Fischer (via screwfix), grey plastic, basically a rawlplug with a bulbous tip, two barbs and a ribbed top section (sounds nasty!). They work brilliantly for light duty fixing in I think from memory 7 and 7.5mm holes (drywall vs skimmed). I have these (3/pole support, closely spaced) holding up my curtains, I'm sure they're not curtain-climbing child proof but they're proving careless adult proof.

For heavier stuff the GripIt fixings are pretty strong but you need the right big spade drill then you need to pick/machine the foam out behind the plasterboard (use a small Allen key in a drill). I have those holding up a big curtain in foam-plasterboard, they're bombproof (for a plassterboard fixing) but they were a fiddly install. Good where one big fixing is needed but fiddly and not totally fool-proof to install.

If it's skimmed or you can add a baton consider glue and screws.

jk

It'll take a huge load if it's applied carefully!

jk

And when you do overtighten and end up with a loose fixing these fix it in 2 minutes.

https://www.toolstation.com/rawlplug-wet-n-fix-repair-solution-pads/p84265

One word, Fermacell ... https://www.fermacell.co.uk/en

I did quite a big rebuild at home 15 years ago and used this stuff, makes plasterboard look like soggy cardboard.

A bit extreme to rip all your plaster and plasterboard off the wall to put up curtains! 😉

I'd second this- my entire kitchen is attached to the insulation boards with them. Easy to use too...

 If you do mess up just fill the hole with polyfilla and sand off when dry, good as new.

If you haven't got a stud detector handy, a really strong magnet can be used to find the screws holding the plaster board on to the battens.  Once you have found the location of two battens the rest are probably equally spaced along the length of the wall, which aids with finding the other battens.  Drill a small pilot hole to make sure, if the bit brings sawdust out when you withdraw it you are definitely in the right place.

Be careful if you are going to try going through to the blockwork behind if you go that route, figure out if you have aerated concrete or solid blocks before you chose your fixings.  Drill a hole with a long bit, once you are beyond the plaster if the drill keeps going like there is nothing there and comes out with dark grey sandy dust on it then you have aerated blocks.

When I put up 250kg of shelving on aerated concrete with dot and dab plasterboard (which was then loaded with books) I used Fischer SXRL hammer fixings and they haven't fallen down yet.  Use a slightly undersized drill, the gap to the wall in your case could lead to the drill bit wiggling and making the hole too big.

https://www.fischer.co.uk/en-gb/products/innovations/frame-fixing-sxrl

There are undercutting tools for each gripit size e.g. https://www.screwfix.com/p/gripit-25mm-undercutting-tool/5333J?tc=NB3&d... should you have insulated plasterboard etc.

These plasterboard fixings have worked well for me, including shelves, a metal blind and a heavy mirror. They should easily hold a curtain rail if the screw holes aren't too close to each other:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-metal-32...

Ignore the 'self drill' part. It's much better to separately drill a small pilot hole first. Also don't overtighten beyond the point of the fixing being flush with the plasterboard, or it will strip the thread and cause the plaster to crumble. You have to use the supplied screws (because the thread is correct for the metal fixing), which may or may not be the right head size for the curtain rail holes..?

You don't have to use the supplied screws, just similar diameter and thread pitch, the supplied screws aren't particularly unique.

If other options unsuitable or difficult you might be able to fix a high timber batten by screwing through plasterboard to ceiling joists. 

There's another fitting type called corefix which utilises the solid wall behind and an additional steel sleeve to bridge the cavity. Over the top for curtains but should provide peace of mind. I've got kitchen wall cupboards full of crockery on them and they're not going anywhere.

As others have said - fix to the studs or patress across studs. Someone else mentioned gripits and in this case I'd agree as the toggles shouldn't chavel up the celotex too much although I don't particularly like gripits because of how big a hole they need. Would normally use standard intersets on plasterboard but you might struggle to cinch them up with the insulation behind.

Would something very sticky be another option rather than screwing into the board/battens?

I had some nightmare moments putting up the tool board in my porch due to the plasterboard, I might be tempted to carefully go about sticking it on, and think about removing it only if I stop liking it at some point.

It's the devil's own invention - plasterboard.  

Plasterboard is not great when its thickness is under compression but worse under tension, it relies on the paper cover for strength and integrity and I wouldn't recommend sticking something that if pulled downwards would apply torque (like a curtain pole) to that cover, it might pull it apart.

Right, thanks for that, you've possibly saved me future hassle. 

Those things saved my nightmare moments after I found them in a corner - seconded about their goodness.