UKH

In Llanberis at the weekend but Pete's was shut, completely closed. Their Facebook page says closed for the winter but it is not even autumn proper yet? Someone I spoke to outside who was also there wondering why it was shut said that they had bought the old pub across the road. The pub looks like a total mess TBH, half painted and a right old eyesore.

Such a shame as we go to Pete's every time we are in Llanberis and have spent many a wet morning in there poring over guidebooks deciding what might be dry enough to climb later. So does anyone know what is going down with Petes Eats? With such history, would be a shame if they were finished for good.

Sorry just realised this is posted in the Rock forum. Was not sure which was best for this thread so please move if not the correct place for it. It is climbing related I guess?

If I recall it's not owned by "Pete" any more and the quality has taken a downturn.  Personally I just avoid Llanberis generally, it's a bit of a dive that could do with a serious sprucing up.

The FB discussion seems to suggest they can't get staff, a problem hospitality all over the place is experiencing since a certain thing people narrowly voted for in 2016.

Search the forums. Being sold for something like £650,000.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/petes_eats_is_up_for_sale-74583...

Christ, they would have to sell a lot of breakfasts to cover that!

Buy why close as surely worth a lot more as a going concern?

Because they can't get the staff, allegedly.

Another casualty of Brexit?

Well, that's what's causing a lot of the rest of hospitality to have those problems, so I suspect so.

If it was in a university town they'd probably manage to get students to staff it, but bussing it down from Bangor when there's plenty of hospitality jobs there is probably too much of a trek.

(Along similar lines, during the period St Martin's College in Ambleside was closed, Ambleside hospitality allegedly had major issues getting staff)

Still up for sale it seems, at £495,000.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/121625711#/?channel=RES_BUY

I wish I could afford to drive to Pete's let alone eat there ☹️

Down to £495k now

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/legendary-snowdonia-cafe-...

Do you think if they have bought the pub they might be selling the cafe to fund the pub which currently looks half finished? God knows, Llanberis is crying out for a decent place to drink. The Heights was dire last time we were in there. Money to be made perhaps?

Subject to getting staff you'd think money could be made there, however much of a stuck-in-the-80s dump Llanberis is.  It's only at the foot of the most popular path up the most popular mountain in the UK.

I wonder if part of it is loss of interest in it?  I'd imagine you probably would find staff among the students of Bangor if you drove there to pick them up and drop them off and paid a bit more than they'll get in the city.  But if you leave them to get the bus (if that even operates early enough for a cafe that does a fair bit of its trade as breakfasts) and just pay minimum they won't.

Despite the University,, the Bangor main shopping area seems to me to have been hit pretty hard compared to what I remember from a decade plus back. I worry how many good cafes and pubs will be gone from Snowdonia in a years time.

I went to Bangor in early 2018 and it was pretty run down then.  I think it suffers from not really being a destination for anyone other than locals despite the students.

Wow, that's quite a drop in asking price from 650 down to 495.

If they can reduce it like that another 3 times I'll buy it myself!

It's terrible "High Street" is in such a state, walk it and look at the buildings so many not maintained and in serious states of neglect, so many shops vacant, this is a road where even pound stretcher couldn't make money. The main shopping centre bit isn't doing very well either. An example of a town that's taking a kicking. Feel sorry for the folk there, tough times...

I used to go to Llanberis once a month but only been there once since lockdown. The ice cream shop and Pete's always seemed to be full and the Height's always used to be packed at the weekend although it could be rough as mentioned. Council were panicking about the village being overrun during the covid period weren't they so there must have been money to be made?

Betsycoed is always rammed too so there must be scope to make money given the insane popularity of "Mount" Snowdon!

The last time I went to Snowdonia was a slim window of opportunity during lockdown but didn't go to Llanberis. So the last time I was there was before COVID. At that time Pete's was closed (I think) but the gear shops were still going (which to be honest was my only reason for going there). In the past I've stayed there for the film festival but always found it a strangely dire place for eating or drinking. I remember travelling out of Llanberis for a mile or so to the Pizza pub (name?) which was great.

Yeah, the pizza and pint pub was/ is good. I mean if you think it's dire it fits right in with my experience of Scottish country towns in the 80s and Fort William now to an extent!

Be a shame if it went altogether - I've still got my Pete's Eats pint mug.

The money making in Llanberis recently has been in property.  There has been a boom in airbnb in recent years.  House prices there have rocketed and been converted into airbnb rentals.  

Impressive that's even possible

Doubt it, they seemed to exclusively employ local teenagers.

Thing in the news recently about how tenants are being evicted as the landlords make more money from AirBnB.

Disgraceful.

happening in Cornwall as well...

I reckon if you setup a B&B on the A5 just East of Capel Curig junction and carefully marked the path up Moel Siabod with lots of "Mount Snowdon >" signs and sold "I conquered Mount Snowdon" t shirts at the bottom you could make a small fortune 

I'm also working on a secret business model to sell "I conquered Mount Tryfan Bach" t shirts further along the A5 but I'll keep those details to myself in case any copies it first

It isn't new, it's been like that for well over 10 years.  Needs a business district improvement committee or similar.

It would be good if the proposed tourist tax could help places like this.

It's the same round near me ( S Wales). In my postcode there's 300 properties on AirBnB - a lot of these are typical first-time buyer houses too, 192 for sale, and only 24 to rent. This has only happened in the past 3 years.

I'd treat it as a temporary blip because it's very unpopular and governments are moving against it. I also suspect there's an oversupply now, particularly as people will be cutting back on spending.

Betwsycoed is far better served for pubs, restaurants and cafes than Llanberis. But then Betwsycoed looks nice. Llanberis looks shabby and unloved. Maybe it's us climbers. Do climbers ever spend any money or are we all tightwads?

Climbers are notorious for not spending, but many people there aren't climbers, they are hillwalkers who "climb" Snowdon, and they are more willing to spend.

I see no particular reason Llanberis shouldn't be able to be made as nice as Betws.  The latter is having some business challenges but it is at least well kept.  It does have traffic issues but they are almost all caused by on street parking on the main road and would be solved in a stroke if this was banned and enforced.  Traffic could be calmed by a camera enforced 20 limit instead.

I wonder if Betws does better, thinking on, because of the traffic, i.e. people see it's worth stopping there so do? 

If there was somewhere nice to spend it I guess. Petes quality was never the best, but was at least somewhere you could guarantee to be open if the weather was bad.

I am not sure they are doing themselves any favours. Not with semi-derelict pubs on the high street. Half the shops seem to sell either random tourist trash of the low quality kind, or are in various states of disrepair or hardly ever open. We probably visit 4 or 5 times a year and the contrast between here and somewhere like the Lakes is stark. Yet, like you say, they have Snowdon on the doorstep which should be a big draw year round.

I don't think personally that Betws looks nice at all or in any way. I hate the place. Zillions of tourist shops and tourists in the road (though some restaurants are OK). The surrounding forests/ mountains are beautiful, but that's not Betws.

I much prefer Llanberis, at least it's a "real" place (if that makes any sense, sorry if it doesn't)

Whilst not my favourite place it is well kept.

It is more a resort/shopping village rather a normal village though.

I've been going to Keswick and LLanberis since about 1970 and in those days both towns were pretty scruffy and downmarket. Since then of course Keswick has gone ballistic, every year it seems to become more like Chamonix*, every year LLanberis becomes more like Merthyr. Having lived in (S) Wales for 20+ years, I don't think the cause is helped by a) the Welsh not liking the English very much, b) the Gogs not liking S Walians very much, c) the Welsh Assembly and local authorities not liking any tourists very much and d) a real chronic, inexplicable lack of entrepreneurialism throughout Wales. (I've heard Welsh civil servants say 'you can't succeed in Cardiff, everything happens in London.' Tom Farmer, who made his Kwik Fit billions based in Edinburgh, respectfully disagreed.) 

*You may not like what has happened to Chamonix but the locals have done very well, there are plenty of good jobs and it seems like a nice place to live. Cf Llanberis.  

You should have seen Llanberis back in the 70's, it was a dour dismal place. I think it improved significantly over the years.

Pete's Eats was a good meeting venue but I was never particularly impressed with the food so to say it has gone downhill boggles the mind somewhat. Were there many foreign staff?  The few times I've been they seemed to be British.

Crikey, I hate to think what it was like then, it's a dour, dismal place now!

Betws probably was in the 70s, though, much of its attraction is the shopping/cafe arcade by the station and car park which is a fairly recent development (80s/early 90s?)  It being a railway gateway to the Park probably helps a bit (though if connecting by bus Bangor is normally easier due to the low frequency on the branch line) but most arrivals are by car, the car park is huge (and normally easy to get into).

Very true.  I don't see why Llanberis shouldn't be the heart of Snowdonia and look more like Ambleside or Keswick, both of which are pleasant places to spend a few hours if sometimes a little overtouristed.

I think you're maybe right there.  A recent symptom of this disdain for the "Saesneg" was the rebranding of Snowdon Sherpa, which prioritises the fact that some miserable anti-tourist Welsh people want us to call it Yr Wyddfa instead over the idea that it probably helps to market a bus service if you write the name most people use for the main place it goes to on the side of it.

I don't mind if they do want to campaign for the mountain to be renamed in common parlance, but doing it on a bus service first is only going to mean fewer people use it as people might see that the livery looks pretty but have no idea where it's going.  They might have more luck starting with the Mountain Railway (used by far more people than the Sherpa bus) which doesn't even have Welsh on its branding at all.

It is, but I don't really see an issue with that.  It's at least a true public realm rather than a privately owned one as per actual shopping centres.  There are plenty of other places to live in North Wales if you want to, just as if you want to live in Cumbria and like the look of Kendal but don't fancy the tourists you've got the likes of Ulverston.

If you mean it's a local village for local people you're possibly right, but having been there I can't see that I'd want to live there in a million years. It's not just boring and nondescript but pleasant enough (like e.g. Bethesda or Llanrwst, which are also fairly normal places where people live), it's downright grim.

It could at least look a bit more like somewhere like Ormskirk, Ulverston or Penrith, say.  Those are "normal places where people live" but aren't utter dumps and have reasonable town centres where it's pleasant to spend a couple of hours.

To be honest, the pub looked tatty and derelict even when it was open

Haven't been to Pete's for years as I was never much of a fan. Last weekend, I was in Llanberis and it did seem that the high street is in need of some TLC or something. We went to Frân coffee shop, which is just a bit further on from Pete's if coming from V12. It was really good - although not in anyway similar to the old Pete's. They don't seem to have much of an internet presence but they are on insta as @caffifran

ETA we also went to Gallty y Glyn (aka pizza and pint) and it was as good as ever.

We went to Pantri when we were over in Llanberis this summer, great coffee and decent food.

That is good to know. Will look out for it next time we head over.

Forgive and correct me if I have the wrong end of the stick, but there is a slight whiff of contempt for the Welsh and their right to their own language here. Now I'm not claiming to have any insight into Welsh culture and I don't think I've been there since the mid 90s, but I do know that Welsh is a living, functioning language (unlike Scots Gaelic outside of small enclaves in the Hebrides) and if they want to name things in Welsh and not any other language I fail to see the problem. It may or not make business sense but do you object to the spellings of places and services if on holiday outside of the UK as well? I'm sorry but this is coming across like the old trope of, "They all start speaking Welsh when you enter the pub."

Thread: my distant memories of Llanberis are that the The Heights had no atmosphere, Pete's was good if you liked huge greasy breakfasts and a feeling of recent history that you'd just missed out on and a pretty dull small town but with a higher than normal concentration of bright fleece jumpers. Nant Peris and the Vaynol were much nicer place to be.

I have no issue whatsoever with the proposal to change the mountain's name in the public consciousness into the Welsh "Yr Wyddfa".  What I do have a problem with is starting that by way of the brand of a bus service which will directly result in more cars in the Park because the marketing of the bus service is adversely affected.

It also won't work in terms of getting "Yr Wyddfa" into the public consciousness.  For a long time tourist attractions like that bus service have used bilingual combined names made easy by the different sentence structures of the two languages - "Snowdon Sherpa'r Wyddfa", "Rheilffordd Ffestiniog Railway" and the likes.  Indeed, I'm pretty sure that that combined brand is the main reason I've known for years that Snowdon was called Yr Wyddfa in Welsh, and most of the other Welsh I know is because of bilingual road signage and the likes.  OK, I could guess Dim Parcio, but I'd never know "cyfleusterau" (literally facilities, but used interchangeably with "Toiledau" for toilets) if that wasn't on a bilingual sign.

Removing the English from the side of the bus was a stupid move pushed by the anti-English zealots when most of its intended customers simply won't have heard of Yr Wyddfa.  The renaming needs to progress a different way first.  A start would be using billingual signage on the Snowdon Mountain Railway!

Not sure this thread needs to degrade into Welsh/English friction. In any major tourist area the locals can become irritated by tourists after a minority who leave "brown bunting" to decorate the area, park inconsiderately and all sorts of other issues, it's not necessarily started by culture and language. Let's leave it as local/versus tourist which is undisputable 

Thanks for the reply, and all of that makes sense. FWIW, if you'd asked me what Yr Wyddfa was, I'd have only got it right by a lucky guess. Yes, considering that bulk of its tourist income is likely from anglophone visitors, bilingual signage would appear to be the way forward.

There are places in the Hebrides with either bilingual signs with the English version in very small print under the main Gaelic place name, or only the Gaelic, which caused me a bit of consternation earlier in the year when I was trying to find my b&b in South Harris with knowledge only of the English version. Thankfully I have a basic Scottish hillgoer's knowledge of Gaelic so figured it out. Gaelic-speaking locals are exasperated by this too.

Edit: I just saw your edit and final paragraph. I hope when you say anti-English you are referring to the language and not the people. Unless you have some inside knowledge which I don't. I do get the feeling that anglophones get het up about Welsh (and other languages) in the mistaken belief that it's about them when it's almost certainly always not.

I reckon a couple of differences between Betws and Llanberis are probably significant. Firstly, Betws is on more of the routes to honeypot locations from big population centres. Secondly, encouraging people to stop and spend money has been the basic raison d'etre of Betws for about the last 200 years so it's been optimised for some sort of attractiveness in a way that Llanberis basically hasn't. That isn't to say that you couldn't make Llanberis nicer, but you'd struggle to turn it into Betws (for better or for worse) without basically demolishing it and starting again.

FWIW my wife and two of my grown up Welsh speakers, but S Walian. I've been to places in rhe North when they've spoken Welsh and they've been replied to in English! It's not just Saesnegs that God's hate, it's everybody! (Mostly joking...)

And more seriously,  having lived in S Wales for 20+ years I can tell you that there is a simmering resentment against the English in many circles. 

No, I don't believe the Welsh language is anti-English any more than I think the German language is (though Wales is a bit different from Germany in that it does have large populations who don't speak Welsh, whereas most people who live in Germany speak at least some German).

I *do* think there's some underlying anti-English sentiment in Wales, though as others have said it may well be more of an anti-tourist thing.  Some of it is justified, e.g. English people buying up houses to use as holiday homes, whereas some of it is less so.  It was fairly visible during COVID - the official message was rightly "please don't come now, but please do come later once this has all calmed down a bit, we'll need your help to get our tourist industry going again", but some locals, particularly farmers, were pushing a far nastier underlying line.  To be equally fair some of this was justified by the behaviour of some ignorant idiots such as the ones leaving turds on footpaths or letting their dogs run free and attack sheep.

I suspect a fair bit of that is misdirected hate for Westminster, though they'll also find that plenty of us English dislike it as well!  (You get the same in Scotland - for some reason dislike of English *rule* ends up embodied in some circles as dislike of English *people*, even if those English people didn't vote for the Westminster Government as it is at present and didn't vote for Brexit either).

The difference between Scotland and Wales here is that Scotland would be a genuinely viable independent economy and I think it will be soon enough, and will look very much like the Republic of Ireland.  Wales on the other hand is quite small and full of "nothingness", with a very weak economy outside of the major towns and a very strong dependency on Liverpool, Manchester, Chester, Birmingham and Bristol plus smaller English towns/cities like Shrewsbury and Hereford.  This would result in something a bit like Albania if it went fully independent - a viable country but a very poor one with a mostly farming economy and unable to afford much of a welfare state.

There are options, such as strong EU support or a "Celtic Union" (i.e. Scotland, Wales and a reunited Ireland forming something a bit looser to replace the UK and booting England out on its own), but it's likely to remain as simmering resentment for a very long time, unfortunately, at least unless the Westminster Government significantly changes its tune.

As a frequent visitor to North Wales from England, I've never been made to feel unwelcome.  Anyway I started this thread about Petes Eats, and cafes/pubs in general so don't want it to descent into a Welsh V's English thing. Please start another thread if that is your thing.

Yep, that's a reasonable assessment of things in Scotland. 

Rob: thanks for input. I've a good mate in S. Wales (Swansea area) who has said vaguely similar, although he is English he sounds quite Welsh now, and as such many people are happy to be anglophobic while talking to him, not realising he's not one of them by birth.

I hope you are correct. 

Ditto.

Anyway, back to Pete's. I remember being in Pippins in Ambleside some years ago and someone said, "This reminds me of Pete's," to universal derision. Pippins was much nicer. It's a shame Llanberis hasn't turned into a thriving outdoors town. Fort William isn't going to win any awards for it's looks or atmosphere but tourist (by which I also mean weekend visitors like me) derived wealth is evident and at least the high street still has some locally owned shops. It has a 'spoons as well though, I'll bet Llanberis hasn't sunk that low.

I have no time for Tim Martin at all (though knowing someone whose son works, or worked, for them I have "inside confirmation" that that "go and get another job" quote during COVID was actually a misquote*) but that Spoons in FW is quite nice, and is handy for a place to sit and work all day at minimal cost if arriving on a Friday morning on the Sleeper and heading up to the CIC hut that evening, as I've indeed done.  Other pubs might be bothered about someone blocking a table for that long (imagine what Humphrey Smith would think! ) but Spoons staff never care.

But yes, I'd definitely say (a) FW is not amazing, but (b) FW is hugely, hugely nicer than Llanberis.

* The actual quote, he says, was something like "I believe we will be closed for a long time, so if you want to go and get another job so you're not sat at home bored we will still welcome you back once we can reopen", and it was said before the furlough scheme was a thing and businesses all over the place were just laying people off.

Agreed, if tourism is managed properly it can bring jobs and prosperity to a town, and add facilities that benefit locals all year round. On paper Llanberis has everything, the railways, the history (castle and mining heritage), the lake (paddleboarding, swimming etc) and of course Snowdon. Why this hasn't been properly capitalised on is a total mystery.

100% agreed.  There should be huge amounts of money coming in and it should be a really-nice-but-a-bit-overtouristed place like Ambleside or Keswick, or even really-quite-nice Hathersage (which is both touristy and a place where people live) - but tragically it's not - and it is slightly odd as to why.

Just looked and I was surprised that population wise it wasnt much smaller than Ambleside and about half that of Keswick. Always seemed a lot smaller than those two.

I think one difference for those two is they tend to be the hubs for the general tourism in the area whereas in Snowdonia a lot of the tourists head to the coast and then come back in just for Snowdon as opposed to the more general fell walking.

History wise they seem to make as bad a job as Colchester does of its.

Armchair town planning time - if you were Benevolent Dictator For Life of the County of Gwynydd and wanted to make Llanberis nicer on a nontrivial but realistic budget, what would you do?

I think most of it would be doing things to attract in businesses that will attract in people.  I don't know where you'd put it but I think that run of small touristy shops and cafes alongside Betws station is a real asset to the place and does serve to help attract people in a bit.  See if it's possible to attract in more gear shops too.

Potentially pedestrianisation of the main bit of the centre (cycles allowed and cycle parking provided) and rejigging it a bit to make it more attractive to spend time there.

Free two hours' parking.  Yes, I know cars can be bad, but as things stand you're wanting to attract people to spend some time there, and most people will just go "can't be bothered" if they have to pay, even a small amount.  Potentially even consider relocating the main Snowdon P&R to in the town if there's room, as people would then park, get the bus up to Pen y Pass, come back down and potentially "have a walk round", patronise pubs, cafes etc before heading home.  The Electric Mountain site could have potential here.  There are informal "parking for Snowdon" car parks, both Council and other ones, but it's not pushed as being that.

Improvements to the bus interchange, though that's slightly a side issue.

It is a difficult one though.

Yes, true, I guess they sit a bit in the shadow of Llandudno which is a nice place to stay for the weekend then drive down and walk up Snowdon.  But while it might not exactly sustain a large Premier Inn (though there are plenty of hotels, including a massive one near the railway) it's certainly somewhere that could do well out of a stop-off-on-the-way type approach, a bit like Hathersage does despite the Peak very much being a "day trip from Sheffield or Manchester" place for many.

One more radical thought.

It's half a mile from the Railway (which must bring in a lot of the trade), the larger car parks (though there is a smaller one nearer), the main bus layby and that small collection of shops that includes Joe Brown's and Pete's.  In between those places is a long road with odd businesses on it but not that much.

I bet a lot of people have gone to Llanberis, parked at that end and thought "there's nothing really here".

Could it actually make sense to sort-of relocate the town centre to a development on the Electric Mountain site, with a small development similar to the parade of shops down the side of Betws station, or the redevelopment of the manky old bus station that is now where most of the gear shops and the Costa are in Ambleside?  Perhaps "anchored" by something like a small Co-op where people will stop off to get their lunch and will wander round the other businesses while there?

Betws is similarly a bit dragged out, but at least the main car park, railway station and bus interchange are in the middle of that drag where most things are located bar a few hotels and that Cotswold.  If you compare it to Betws, it's a bit like that would be if the main car park and bus interchange was on the site of the old Cotswold shop or even the Shell petrol station at the very far end by the bridge - and if that was the case I don't think Betws would do even nearly as well.

Yes, OK, most of the customers are hillwalkers, but if you've just walked up and down Snowdon you're very much *not* up for half a mile down a nondescript street in promise of a town centre which might be - and when you get there you find is - largely rubbish.

I'm starting to suspect this may be the main issue.  In short, the centre - and Pete's - is very badly located for passing trade.  Petes had a good reputation for years, but that's drifting into the past, and so it's dying off.

Petes had a good reputation for years, but that's drifting into the past.

Indeed, it's now closed, for the winter in any case!

I think the big hotel is part of the problem. Probably be better served by several smaller ones spread out each serving food of different quality/price levels to attract a range of people.

Shopping wise not sure competing with Betwys for gear shops would be a great idea. A more general tourism range I think would be a better plan for those who are ticking the box going up Snowdon and then doing more general touristy things.

Again for the Lake District comparison the impression I always have is Snowdonia gets the daytrip up Snowdon and then the very keen walkers/outdoorish people vs the Lakes which gets both of those but also those who did the daytrip and enjoyed it so are doing some more. This group being highly vulnerable to gearshop temptation.

Plus lock up any mime artists and stick a downhill mountain bike track down Snowdon with free train tickets to the top for the riders (as dictator you have to do somethings for yourself).

A Premier Inn would properly shake up the rather rubbish hotel trade in Llanberis and bring in more people staying there.  I've stayed in the big hotel and it was decent if pricey (forget what it's called now) but most of the small ones are rubbish.

Not sure where you'd put one without planning issues, though.

In many ways it's a bit of a shame that the Council estate at the railway end of things was built there rather than moving the village centre there and building that further back.  For all social housing is needed, it contributes to the feel that it's a bit manky* and there's little there.  Or if it was put there, that it didn't include the classic 1960s social housing estate "parking and parade of shops" type arrangement - not pretty but at least practical.

(I mean this sort of place, up the road from me, which often features in social housing developments but for some reason didn't in this one: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.996472,-0.7560466,3a,75y,109.15h,90t/data=!...)

* I expect as far as social housing goes it's a pretty good place to live if you can get work, and some will have been bought, but grey rendered 1960s buildings *can't* look nice and welcoming.

Your profile says you're from Milton Keynes and you're knocking Llanberis!!!!

You really don't get Llanberis if you're proposing a Premier Inn....

I'm not sure why my location has anything to do with whether I happen to like a place or not.

There's a link above to my local parade of shops/cafes.  It's sow-ugly 1960s social housing land (most now owned, but it still looks it).  It does however have more viable businesses than Llanberis seems to have, and that's without any tourism!  (Bletchley Park is actually up the road, but people visiting that won't ever come this far up).

You know there's one being built in Keswick, right?  It's a disruptor - if the hotel trade in a particular location is crap (and it is in Llanberis other than the big one) then it either has to pull its socks up or close.  Llanberis's hotel trade, from experience, needs disrupted.

And if we're comparing it to Fort Bill, which I don't see why we shouldn't, that has both a Travelodge *and* a PI, plus a load of independents etc.

I agree with other posters that centre of Llanberis isn't a good fit for Premier Inn, but personally I think there is definitely room for another Premier Inn or Travelodge/etc in the area as the closest are at Caernarfon but maybe Glyn Rhonwy..? that could work!

Llanberis ain't got no concrete cows man! 😄

FWIW I'm not specifically suggesting building a PI, it was wider discussion based on the hotel trade there being rather weak other than the big place.

Sl@te Head: what would *you* like to see happen to improve the place?

The one think that places like Chamonix and Keswick have is a pedestrian friendly centre, with bars and cafes out on the street. Llanberis centre is not a particularly pleasant place to walk or linger with narrow pavement, parked cars and busy traffic. Perhaps a solution?

I shan't darken the doors of "that Cotswold" in Betws again. I went in 3 weeks ago - NO climbing gear at all, NO guidebooks. In fact it wasn't particularly dissimilar from Blacks or Millets or even Go Outdoors....

I think Llanberis should be twinned with Milton Keynes and we should have 4 concrete sheep

Pedestrianizing at least the stretch between (say) Joe Brown and Pete's and sticking in a bit of public seating, greenery etc does seem like a thing that would make sense. Although history suggests that people will fight tooth-and-nail to stop anything that might make an area less accessible to cars, regardless of any upside in terms of making it more attractive to pedestrians.

Yeah, I did mention that above.  Though it's not a nice, wide road of the kind you'd want to hang around in even if that was done - it's a narrowish road with not particularly attractive looking buildings (albeit painted interesting colours) either side, and it's half a mile from most of the touristy stuff.  I do increasingly think building a new town centre at the other end of things would be of benefit.  Thing is, if you've just walked up Snowdon or are about to, you aren't going to walk a mile into town and back, and bar a small number of locals that's your business.  And bluntly if you're getting back in the car you'll drive somewhere nicer instead.

That's happened before elsewhere - indeed, arguably twice to my current home town of Bletchley.  For those familiar with it, the original village centre in Alan Turing's time was near the Three Trees pub and the barber's, then it was moved to near the station in I think the 50s, then arguably it's now moved again to the Stadium MK site.  All three have shops etc, but the importance has shifted.

Yes if the lakes can support successful, pleasant enough, tourist centres in Windermere/bowness, Ambleside, Grasmere and Keswick with some decent pubs/cafes/shops in all of these, I'm baffled why llanberis struggles so much. 

It's a weird one. It's in a fabulous location.

I think that the place hasn't got a real centre/heart, like a village green or such.

Re the Snowdonia towns. Bethesda's aright, Porthmadog if you don't mind a drive and are happy with the west side. Or sack off the north and stick to the golden triangle of Mach, Dol & Barmouth. What more could you want!

Some awful dergatory nonsense in this thread by that would be called out if it was about any other nation or community.

No enterprise, simmering resentment, Albania, renamed bus services,..

What a load of tosh!

I think that could be possibly it.

So why's Llanberis so miserable in your view, then?

I don't know it well enough to comment

We've had our club cottage in Bethesda for over 50 years. When I first went there about 30 years ago, it was pretty run down. Then there was an infusion of EU money and it was half decent. Unfortunately since covid, it's gone down hill again. Pubs shutting, no decent eateries.

I was never a huge fan of Pete's Eats personally. A gallon mug of stewed tea and sea of cheap baked beans on limp toasted Sunblest always made for a dyspeptic day on the hill for me.
But each to their own. Sad to see it disappear.

Eric's giant chip butty didn't sound too enticing either but it was very satisfying.

The vegan/veggie cafe and the pizza place at the station in Bettws  are excellent. 

This place?

https://www.alpinecoffeeshop.co.uk/

It's not purely veggie but does cater very well for dietary requirements.  I think it may have been in the past though?

It is indeed abosolutely excellent though.  A standard lunchtime stopoff on the way back home on a Sunday if I am up there.  Only problem is sometimes getting in!

I think maybe Llanberis needs to realise that it sits on shore of a big beautiful lake. You can wander through the place and almost miss it because the town isn't really planned around it. Lesson learned from the Lakes, people like lakes...

Llanberis is a bit of a depressing dump, in the shadow of a Slate Quarry, which is an even bigger dump. The main attractions being Climbing, when it is not raining, and a big hill which many people will walk up once, then never return.
Parking is huge issue, because of the big hill.
Nearby are far nicer places for walking and other outdoor pursuits.
Tragically it suffers from the same post industrial issues as Bacup, Accrington, Scunthorpe, Dewsbury, Maryport etc.
Having visited the Slate Museum, which is excellent and hearing the tragic tale of the Quarries closure, one cannot but have empathy for the decline of the area, but I do not think a few miserly climbers buying Chips and a Brew, in between fondling climbing gear, they already have, and have no intention of buying any more of, is part of the solution.
 

Llanberis isn’t in Snowdonia, neither are other towns that are commonly called centres or hubs of Snowdonia including: Bethesda, Porthmadog, Caernarfon, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Llanrwst, Barmouth,  Machynlleth.

The main towns/villages in the NP really are Dolgellau, Betws-y-Coed, Bala, Harlech & Beddgelert - Far from the likes of Keswick, Windermere & Ambleside.

I'd call Betws very much similar to Ambleside.  It's not as big, but it's similarly touristy, busy, has gear shops, hotels etc, a big car park and pleasant to have a wander round.

I'm surprised Llanberis isn't in the Park.  Maybe that's part of the reason for its underinvestment?

Blaenau is an odd island in it which I believe has to do with its previously industrial nature.

Windermere is what most people seem to call Bowness, which I'd agree doesn't really have a Wales equivalent (other than maybe Llandudno, but it's not *quite* the same).  Windermere itself (by the station and Booths) is quite small though a lot nicer than it used to be.  But perhaps it provides a guide for how Llanberis could be improved?  It *used* to just be a few shops and similar along a fairly grim looking road.

Actual *climbers* probably not, they're notoriously stingy, but tourist hillwalkers going up the big hill you mention *do* buy expensive gear (and wear it once) and spend in cafes and the likes when they're down.

If you can't make huge tourist money at the base of probably the most popular single mountain in Europe if not the world (in terms of how many people walk up it plus those on the train) something is seriously wrong.

I am not sure about this. There is a spectrum from day trippers through to very serious and I think the main spenders will be those transitioning from day trippers to occasional/frequent walkers.

My impression is Snowdon tends to attract mostly the day trippers especially via Llanberis. Everyone else tends to take alternate routes up.

We regularly stop off at the alpine coffee shop for a mug of coffee and a bowl of chips - and a doggie sausage for Muttley, but why, oh why, is the service so slow? 

Disgusted, Frodsham

Flatten the hydro electric place, get a nice little shopping village in its place and a nice kids playground next to the lake with some a nice pub and good places to eat.  

The problem with the centre of llanberis is it need moving about 100 yards North West where it can benefit from lovely views next to a pretty lake in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK.

Hill walkers, will not use Llanberis as a base, because of poor parking and only one hill (a bit of exaggeration there), and it is a dump. The big hill is both Llanberis's blessing, and its curse. Not quite the same, but I bet many in Wasdale, wish that eg Helvelyn was the highest, as Scawfell Pike,  attracts Bucket listers and three peakers who possibly are a nett cost on he local economy, and Wasdale has loads of other great walking, so people will come anyway.

I holidayed in llanberis for a week this summer. Frankly I don't recognize any of the slanderous nonsense spouted on this thread. I wonder how many people posting on here have actually walked through the village in the last 10 years. I have and I thoroughly enjoyed walking from the skate quarries into town, walking down to the lake for a swim in the evening and browsing some of the shops on the high street. Yes some of the premises are unoccupied but that is a blight in every town and city centre in the union. Two quality climbing shops should be enough for anyone on this page but there are interesting shops selling curios and bikes. And if you don't like the heights then don't go there. I didn't. Pubs are closing down country wide because they can't make any money when pints cost 4 quid. Move on, the past is a foreign country, and value what it does have. 

Agreed, pubs are closing down countrywide ...except in Keswick and Ambleside they're not.

The crux of the discussion here is why those two towns flourish when Llanberis - with it's two lakes, two railways, most popular mountain (arguably) in the world, not to mention it being a short drive from glorious coastline, sandy beaches and historic castles can't shake off it's run-down persona?

I wish I knew the answer, I quite like Llanberis.

That's an unfair comparison to make, ask instead how Ambleside and Keswick managed to buck the trend set by the entire nation. Could it be the exodus of investment bankers wealth from Knightsbridge? That is a common story in the south west.

Maybe Llanberis/Snowdonia needed a Wainwright?

Yes, that’s the one. If we camp, we walk in and get breakfast there, jump on a bus to the pass with bouldering pads. Good day out, bus back, pizza at the place just along from the cafe, a few beers at the Royal Oak and stagger back. Fine day out.

As far as Pete’s is concerned, I think I first went there around 1980, it was a lot smaller then. I loved hanging out in there, but I think you just grow out of it. I guess it comes down to not minding paying a bit more for better food. Turns out The Alpine Cafe is a good spot to hang out during rain showers too.

The other one that gets a lot of the business is the Siabod cafe, which most people heading to Snowdon from the Midlands or North would drive past before getting to Llanberis.  I think it's a bit Marmite, I've never thought it that amazing though it's OK, but it is just easy as you park out front and straight in.

I think a large part of the problem is your "not to mention it" part. Means it ends up being a daytrip location rather than base of operations.

I wonder do more people daytrip North Wales than the Lakes or if it's similar?  Journey times to both from the North West conurbation (Liverpool, Manchester etc) where a lot of the demand comes from are similar, though I guess you've also got the West Midlands as a feasible day trip origin for North Wales, and if you're driving in from there via the M54 and A5 you don't pass Llanberis (but do Betws).

So are we looking at three main issues, then?

1. It's grim (very easily fixable)

2. It's the wrong side of Snowdon for day trippers from the North West and Midlands (not fixable) - these people will pass the Siabod cafe and Betws but not Llanberis

3. The main car parks are half a mile from the centre, which people won't walk if they've already been walking (fixable to an extent, either by creating a new centre or new parking)

I guess one of the big problems with Llanberis is the extreme seasonable nature of business there.

Thousands of people turn up on a bank holiday and the place struggles to cope because for the rest of the year the place is quiet and even if your premesis is big enough to cope it's hard to get enough flexible staff. The result is that the bank holiday tourists get poor service and then they go away and slag the place off on social media and the place gets a reputation.

I'd agree with people saying that they need to start exploiting the lakeside better, a big boarded up powerstation visitor centre doesn't really give the best first impression and it's very easy to drive past without ever knowing the high street exists.

As far as Pete's goes, I think it's been living off it's past for a while. The fact that you can't even get a fresh cup of tea is bad news but the quality of the bacon and sausages in the breakfasts was terrible.

People slag off climbers for not spending money but where's our obligation to buy terrible quality food? we don't owe anyone anything just because they happen to be near to somewhere we want to visit.

But isn't that how it is in Betws, Ambleside, Keswick etc?  And they are nice places to spend time.

Have you actually been to Llanberis and Ambleside?
In Ambleside you have some of the most sublime scenery in the World, in Llanberis, you are looking at a fairly nice mountain, stood next a huge slate dump.
Llangolen and Cwm Cywarch, now those are beautiful places to be as a walker/ tourist, though neither can shake a stick at The Pass for climbing.
You are flogging a dead Horse here.

Yes, of course I have.  Why would I be calling somewhere a dump I hadn't been to?  Why would I even know it was a dump if I hadn't been there?

I actually find that post-industrial stuff quite impressive and scenic.  Blaenau Ffestiniog, when you come out of the railway tunnel or down off the Pass on a foggy day, is utterly stunning.  Shame the place itself is even more of a dump!

I don't agree.

I rarely post on here, but I'm finding your constant stream of posts stating that Llanberis is a dump quite offensive. If you don't like it then simply go elsewhere....

I quite like Llanberis in fact I think it's an awesome place.

Right then, has anyone got any specific thoughts/ideas for the Llanberis Development Group to consider?

Deacondeacon your points about the Electric Mountain building are noted, but inevitably this is a controversial issue in Llanberis ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61778857 )

(By the way, I'm not the Toby who currently owns Pete's Eats, although lots of people seem to think I am!)

Maybe the residents of Llanberis are quite happy with the way it is?

I am led to believe they do, and that they see themselves as Quarry and Industrial people, not as customer service workers. It is their home, and they have not sold out, and I respect them for it, as opposed to people in the Lakes who moan about off comers and unaffordable house prices, but neglect to remember that Lakes people sold their houses to off comers in the first place.

Personally i don't think Ambleside is all that. The traffic is terrible for a start. Betws y coed has a few more all weather activities nearby in thing's like go below/bounce below, Antur Stiniog MTB park, the Marin trails MTB centre (can't remember what they are called now), Penmachno MTB trails. It also has a train station and a big road right through the middle of it advertising it's wares to anyone passing through.

Maybe if they build the park and ride to pen y pass on the north side of Llanberis with a hop on hop off bus through the high street people would see the town and maybe jump off and see what's there on the way home.

I quite like Llanberis too. I find it a refreshing antidote to what Keswick has become with seeming endless brand shops and food outlets. Two quality climbing shops, the quirky Rum Doodle, rock shoe resoler, the excellent Gallt y Gyn down the road and Caban round the bottom of the Llyn provide most of what I'd look for. Disappointed that Mafon didn't survive the pandemic (I've not tried Fran). If I need pub food the Vaynol will do me.

Then it's set against the world heritage site that is the slate quarries and the climbing along the Pass. What's more to want.

I am probably biased, I lived in Bangor for 5 years from '81 and have a soft spot for the whole area. I actually thought Llanberis was looking the brightest I'd seen it a couple of years prepandemic. 

I'd agree with comments about the demise of Bangor high street/shopping centre. Memories of a mixed, relatively vibrant place in the '80s with a good mix of pubs.

It is surprising the students can't sustain a decent hospitality industry in Bangor.  They manage it in Lancaster which is not a dissimilar sort of place.

Chalk and cheese.   Keswick is a town,  Llanberis is a village. 

Ambleside is perhaps a more comparable size.  I think someone said above the populations are similar.

Or, in Wales, Betws - but does anyone actually live there?  It's in some ways like a resort in the public realm, and that's not what Llanberis would want to be, I'm sure.

Llanberis is hardly a dump! It's just a bit tatty.

I have to agree. If anything I've noticed the place better than I've ever known it. I wonder if Pete's is struggling (if it is) because there are a few Cafes that are competing with it now (I've tended to use a couple of the others the last few times I've visited)

There's a small "estate" called Pentre Du on the edge of Betws where I assume locals live. Unless it's all been turned into Air BnBs and holiday homes...Streetview link:
https://tinyurl.com/mr2akkh9

But Ambleside isn't imho something to aspire to. Far too busy, lots of shops selling rubbish/cheap outdoor gear (plus a couple of really good ones), noisy, gridlocked traffic, no good restaurants that I've found and afaik only one decent pub (Golden Rule). Happy to be corrected on the pub and restaurant part, not been in c.4 years. Undoubtedly there is more money circulating but it hasn't necessarily made it a better place to live or visit.  

Thanks, never even knew that was there!

The traffic in Ambleside is indeed bad and it can be hard to park, but the traffic is also what brings it custom.  Bypassing a place can be good, but as per Llanberis (where the bypass was built on the old railway line) it can also take custom away.

But other than that I really like the place.

FWIW my sister liked living there while she was at St Martins for uni.

I'd imagine the cafes in Betws and the Moel Siabod are its main competitors.  The Siabod seems to have a similar sort of vibe at times.  There's also the Tyn y Coed which does food though I don't *think* (might be wrong) non resident breakfasts.

The advantages of all of those is that (a) you drive past them all if coming from the main day tripper origins to Snowdon and the Ogwen Valley, and (b) you can park fairly easily near them all rather than half an hour away.

That's true.

I like it for quick visits but I'm also relieved to be going. Just far too busy. I feel similarly about London though  

Yeah, true.  My sister hates big cities, can't wait to leave.  I really like visiting London though I'd not want to live there.  Horses for courses and all that.

Bloomin' eck! Although looking at the OS maps and the general layout shows that and how the "Coffee Pot" has the architecture of a station -->  somehow in my general daftness I'd never connected it up and noticed that. Thanks!

I think a lot of people assume the Llanberis Lake Railway is built on the bed of the old standard gauge line as is common for preserved railways, indeed I used to think that, it was only really when I stayed there once and went for a run along the old line (which moves away from the road as you head away from Llanberis) that I realised how it all connected up.

The Lake Railway is partially on the trackbed of an old quarry railway (the Padarn Railway) and partly new-build.