UKH

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/snowdon-walkers-now-pay-m...

Unbelievable price rises at Pen y Pass, £40 for 24 hours!!!!

Wonder what the cancellation/refund policy is, because people aren't going to walk away from their £18 or £40 if the forecast is bad and it will result in poor decision making, more rescues and potentially fatalities unless they can get a near complete last minute refund.

Double-checked and articles was listed on 2nd of April. Seems expensive, will that just move the problem? Short of draining and concreting over Llyn Llydaw (making miners' into a road) not sure of a "fix" for the sheer numbers who want to park there especially August bank holidays. This is why God created the Rhinogs, Cnicht, Cyfrwy Arete and all those other lovely hills

Isn't the fine for parking on the road only £30?

Yes, but we don't tell the tourists about those ones!

£25 for 12 hours.  But irrelevant as I've never managed to get a place.  Park-n-ride, walk further or hitch

I also checked the date, it would have been a good April Fools albeit not a funny one!

Actually only 18 pounds for up to 8 hours. Still a lot but no more than you pay in some prime city locations. Spllit that between 3 or 4 people and its not a big deal. If you are in the car on your own and can't afford it there are alternatives. Park and ride, alternative routes with free parking. 

If you are planning on being out over 8 hrs you are on a pretty long day and must be walking not too far from some other possible free parking spots.

Yeah, I got a ticket for parking around there once, if you pay it quickly it isn't much. Luckily for me, the guy was issuing so many tickets that day he entered the wrong number plate on my ticket so I challenged it and got off with it.   

The Swiss would build a partially underground multi storey down by the hotel junction or in nant peris, grass it over and plant trees around it. Then build a dedicated walk /cycle path up the edge of the road. Yeah, they'd blast a bit of rock out, build some embankments, but it would be a long term solution to a problem that won't ever go away. Likely cheaper long term and could be supported by a decent cafe and toilets too. 

Great - keep all the poor people away, so I can park my beemer easily.

The Beemers and Mercs are the least likely to pay for parking. You see, they're special and entitled...

The Swiss would also have an acceptable bus service integrated with the train service at Betws and Bangor.  The difference in this regard with the Lakes, where Stagecoach do a good job despite much of it not being subsidised, is very stark indeed.

It is a real shame the main operator in North Wales is Arriva, as they are masters of managing decline and have no interest in any kind of innovation or market growth.

What's the current deal with the laybys near the Cromlech, are they blocked off, or still filled with vans from overnight? I'd be happy to pay a reasonable amount to park in them. £18 to park at pen y pass and then walk way down that narrow road carrying multiple pads is less attractive, but better than having only for park and ride (which is totally impracticable with pads.)

No need for a multi storey. There is already a perfectly good car park ready and waiting at the, failed, Glyn rhonwy enterprise park. It would also solve the problems at the lagoons. All the council need to do is open the gates put a bus stop in for park and ride and put a pedestrian crossing (eventually a bridge) over to the lagoons.

I'd agree, before I had a car the buses alone between Ambleside, Keswick and penrith were good, the problem I think now is everybody wants to do everything in a day, instant, and aren't prepared to walk or travel first. Their first step on the ground out of their car has to be on the actual path up snowdon, scafell, or to Harrison stickle... 

Just close the top car park to the public , maybe disabled only and those living locally who work in the outdoors and have a season pass. 

Some whole valleys in lakes could be closed off to non residents, let's slow life down a little, they'd be much nicer places to walk and cycle. 

I think the British are basically allergic to infrastructure or any management. It's why most of our limestone crags are a mess of rotting fixed gear barricaded behind a tsunami of brambles. 

The Snowdonia National Park Authority and the local councils have turned the Pen-y-Pass car park into a resource for the rich. Poor people can park and ride or walk up from Llanberis. Both authorities need money and are ripping off car park users under the guise of dissuading private vehicle traffic and greening the planet. The local councils are Labour-controlled and overcharging those of their natural constituency members who happen to own cars and vans and wish to park at Pen y Pass.

Of course there are too many cars, vans and motorbikes on the roads overall but that is a separate problem to my mind with some kind of number restriction coming. But the local Pen-y-Pass problem is being dealt with in a way that is money-grabbing and iniquitous and with inadequate park and ride schemes as well.

And push Gwynedd into more poverty? We need tourism, even if it is unpopular to some, we just need to manage it properly so that it creates sustainable jobs and local income that can be invested back into the local community. I hardly think closing the valleys with access to the highest mountain in Wales is a workable approach.

Gwynedd council is plaid controlled.

Conwy council is Welsh conservative/plaid controlled.

It would have nuclear blast doors, too...

Perhaps if people can't drive from Manchester, park at pen y pass, eat their packed lunch, then drive home, all in a day, they'll stay longer, spend more? 

NPs need managed tourism. Maybe they need to do more than a car park and toilet. 

I never said close the hill. Shut the top car park, improve park and ride, build better paths so folk don't have to walk on roads etc... 

There are several paths up snowdon, improve them, sign post, colour or number them, folk could go up one, down another. A frequent bus brings them back to their car park, have a cafe at each, so folk spend as they wait. 

It's always going to be the honey pot, so it needs dealing with. 

I agree with you on many of those points and we were discussing various strategies whilst going up on the Sherpa bus today (daughter wanted a ride on a red bus).

People (often with kids and dogs) walking up the side of an A road in the numbers that do is not acceptable, a proper path is definitely long overdue.

The 40mph limit through llanberis needs to drop to 30, the crowds there already and the traffic around the lagoons junction is dangerous let alone what it will be like at the peak of this year.

A residents parking scheme in llanberis. Woolacombe has a good one, where residents can buy (for a nominal adminstrative fee) books of old fashion punch card parking tickets to issue to their visitors. It worked really well when visiting a friend down in Devon during peak summer season.

Something creative needs to be done with the condemned electric mountain building.

But what we need most of all is new dynamic (Welsh speaking) local and county councillor's. Surely out of all the outdoor instructors/climbing activists in llanberis we could find someone that suits that criteria to stand as an independent in the May election. So that rather than constant discussions on ukc, North Wales live Facebook and local community Facebook groups the council actually does something. Gwynedd council really needs a good shake up, highlighted by their severely underhand tactics of trying to push through new parking restrictions (bus stop and lagoons) at a time when we were in firebreak, therefore few people could see the notices and no public consultation meetings could be held (thankfully they underestimated the power of social media). Conwy council had been firmly told not to do this sort of thing during lockdowns at it was undemocratic, clearly the memo didn't make it as far west as Gwynedd.

Meh, it’s not even the best place to park IMO, I’m glad they’re getting as much as they can from those willing to pay (like three peaker busses) there’s many other car parks within walking/ bus distance of any crag or hike. (Some are even  free)

I think a decent sized car park in the Pen-y-Gwryd area would work.
It's relatively high and close to Pen-y-Pass (people are lazy!), and there is already a half decent path up to the Pass (last time I was there).
Dig it down a few feet and get tons of trees of planted to obscure most of it.
It would, however, turn the pub into one of those god almightily horrendous countryside pubs, but its days as being a British climbing icon are numbered anyway.

Yes, true.  But we should be looking at making it easily possible to day trip from say Liverpool or Manchester by train to walk up Snowdon.  You can easily do it by car, and if the public transport was designed to connect properly it would be easily possible by public transport, too.  All the better as you'd be able to have a meal and a pint or 3 (perhaps in Betws) before heading home.

It can be done, but it isn't *nice* - the Lakes bus services do it far better.  For instance Bangor bus station is well over a mile from Bangor railway station, and buses aren't timed to connect with trains at Betws.

You're having a laugh suggesting going up Snowdon by train from Manchester!
About 6 hours there and back to Bangor, getting from home to the station in Manc, then Bangor to Snowdon. You'd be meeting yourself coming back on the way out.

Then there's the expense!!!

Bump?

Feels to me like the laybys are an important part of the solution, at least to climbers.

Maybe the cc hut car park could be opened up more too, with a charge. Every bit helps.

This is of course the problem.  If it can be done by car (and it can, easily) public transport needs to look at itself and work out how to make such things possible by public transport, too.  The fewer cars in our National Parks, the better.

Another option is collect all the tickets from the cars, put them in a box and post it to the council.

I think it is better folk stay and spend a little locally. 

Trains, you could have the Snowdonia train, leaves Leeds 0500, stops only at Manchester and chester/Liverpool, into Bangor where pre booked seated bus waits specially and goes up Llanberis pass, Capel and down ogwen. The reverse starting at say 5 or 6pm.

You could have a London departing sleeper that joins onto it somewhere en route. Passengers board Friday evening. 

How would you know the pubs days are numbered? . Recent refurbishment and more local involvement the pub is thriving! 
 

And the pub will never be a god almighty horrendous countryside pub either it’s a climbing pub now and always will be ! . 

You are spot on there. When I started hillwalking in the mid 80s, my trips to the lakes were y train and bus.

Stoke to Crewe, Crewe to Oxenholme ( excitement really building here), Oxenhole to Windermere then a bus to Ambleside.

I got really adventurous on one winter trip and got the bus to ODG from Ambleside. Camped the night, walked over sticks pass to Keswick and bus back to Ambleside.

No phone((few ten ps in a bag)no car and had the time of my life.

That's a bit antisocial as people would then end up having to fight prosecution for non-payment (as they are statutory tickets) as they didn't know about them but they were correctly issued.

Ideally yes, but if it's a choice between them going by car for a day trip or going by public transport, the latter is preferable.  The car is not, despite some environmentalists' views, going to go away, so if you want public transport to compete it needs to actually compete.

Indeed, the good old days. I would get off at penrith, then walk to lowther, askham, over the fell to Howtown, then boat to Glenridding. 

did you fly over the Pennines with the Wright Brothers?

Maybe they are thinking of installing car stackers and looking to recoup the cost of increasing capacity?

No, but I have flown with Dan Air, which was about the same technology and comfort. 

As shocking as the chargers are it's a simple case of supply and demand. I wouldn't pay it but many will for the convenience.

The UK has a population of about 68 million people which has grown by over 300k each year for the last 20 years. Popular national parks, namely Snowdonia, the Lake District and the Peak District have enormous pressure on them, especially in the "super honey pot" sites such as Snowdon and Ambleside yet there seems to be little in the way of serious long term plans with how to manage visitors.

Tinkering around the edges with the odd high car park fee isn't going to be effective. Visitors are going to come so why not have schemes which encourage the use of public transport such as a £1pppn tax on accomodation which goes to fund buses and toilets? You can't stop people coming, just manage them better.

There is a charge £75 a year. 2 days parking at pyp if you believe the sensationalist headline. 

Thanks. I couldn't find anything about that on the cc website?

I did a lot from Penrith Station too.

I'd assume that is how much the membership subs are for a year. 

In most cases I would agree. In this case the council has been repeatedly warned that signage at this location is insufficient. The roadside space is almost layby sized and so the council treat this area as a cash cow to generate income.

Practically the council will not fight over 100 disputes from angry motorists who they know never received a ticket.

Think what you want, but I'd not appreciate someone removing the ticket (enforcement notice). In real life a council doesn't fight to prove guilt, the onus is on the motorist to prove innocence as the court will find against the motorist if the council says so unless the motorist has evidence. Also, the majority of people who were ticketed, probably being tourists, would find the location (is that Caernarfon Justice Centre?) to be far less convenient than a council employee would. This all means that everyone would pay the higher fine and the council would just make more money

We had a similar situation in the Ogwen. We parked in the little layby on the right just before Ogwen cottage (approaching from Bethesda). Knew nothing about it until we got a late payment notice. We contested it, but long story short we had to pay the initial penalty charge. 

for the mystery dislikers Wright Brothers operate a coach service from Newcastle via Hexham, Alston and Penrith to Keswick.  I didn't have a car till my 30s (being a "boomer") so this was a wonderful way to get to the Lakes to go camping on the fells -

Bus to Durham, train to Newcastle, Wright Bros to Penrith and then walk the High Street Fells from Celleron to Troutbeck

Dislikers, explain yourselves?  was it just me, was it that Wright Brothers run a bad service or are you just over-reacting?????

Or is it simply too corny an allusion for you?

I was living elsewhere by then, so got to penrith by West coast mainline. As a 16 Yr old we did cycle over the Pennines to camp, once, it was a stupid plan! Bikes with rucksacks, a66, westerly headwind, big trucks, there was nothing good about it apart from the downhill run after passing the high point. Took two days to recover, despite feeling pretty fit at the time, having bashed out the lyke wake walk in a good time a couple of weeks earlier. 

I didn't dislike however like the majority I suspect the reference went over my head. You said FLY and you said THE Wright brothers. Google shows this service does exist to this day, interesting but you won't get much walking time in a day round trip.

summo knows the N Pennines and Weardale though so there was a strong possibility that the reference might have meant something to him.  I don't quite understand why the reference to a day trip?

So what is the best place to park in Llanberis and wots the bus routes, And how much cheaper is it..

Thanks for correction.