UKH

Has Boris been furloughed? I don't enjoy seeing him flounder at the podium but he is conspicuous by his absence.

has his paternity leave started ?

He’s had Coronavirus so he’s probably bored of that now and with the Brexit talks looking like a no deal or bad deal is on the horizon -he probably considers his work here done (after all, next election is years away)! 

"All orders were now issued through Squealer or one of the other pigs. Napoleon himself was not seen in public as often as once in a fortnight"

In the interests of transparency I've never actually read Animal Farm, a friend posted the quote the other day.

I have seen the film of the same title though.

Fixed that for you.

Are we marginally better off without him?

I can't stand the man, but to be fair, I think he isn't well, he's still recovering from being in ICU, he's been under a lot of pressure, it must be an almost unbearable job to be a PM in a world wide pandemic crisis, he and his government have made some awful mistakes in their handling of it. He is trying to put on a brave face and bluff out these misjudgements, but he wouldn't be human if he wasn't feeling some remorse/guilt at leading a country with the second highest death toll in the world. He nearly lost the adviser on whom he relies on more than anyone else. He's got a new baby and the accompanying sleepless nights and stress that goes with that. He's lost his popularity. He is under incredible mental pressure and stress, the job he always coveted and fought to get, has exploded in his face in a way that he (nor anyone else for that matter) could never have imagined before, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't close to a mental breakdown.

I couldn't give a shit.
How many times have I heard that man utter the word 'integrety'?

He doesn't know the meaning.

I hope he suffers a long and painful next few decades.

Boris is my man for the job. Like some cannon fodder frontline troops in the trenches during WWI, I feel it is important to have an expendable PM at this time. No sense in trashing a good one.

I don't think anyone knows the meaning of 'integrety'...

All of which he bought on himself, well except the global pandemic, though woth regard to the scutiny of his handeling of it, he only has himself and his government to blame.

He looks f*cked tbh....probably wishes he never got the job and must be having sleepless night thinking about the future enquiry. 

Isn't this Johnson's view of Hancock?

'it wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't close to a mental breakdown.' I agree.  Maybe there is a god.

That b*stard has caused this country more economic harm than any PM since WWII - almost immeasurable.

And once the pandemic kicked in his incompetence and inability to understand what he was being told has resulted in an additional economic catastrophe, total disruption and 10s of thousands of people dying unnecessarily through  his managerial  incompetence,  his inability to provide basic stuff like PPE and testing. (But that's OK, victims have been  mostly BAME, or elderly, or both.) There could have been a different outcome.

I'm not sure it's possible to overstate how destructive he has been, he has been Trump without twitter. 

He could always resign ?

Well yes, that was the populist PM we voted for.

WE?

Collectively, yes.  Clearly enough people want (or think they want) populists because they keep getting elected.  It's an unfortunate consequence of democracy. 

Watch your double negative in the last sentence! 

Happy to help 😃

Is it not simply a case of him being 'disgracefully cavalier' and us being 'churlish not to regard him as the exception, free from the network of obligation which binds everyone else'?

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/letter-to-boris-johnsons-dad-from-et...

Not sure on the economic harm being attributable to him following Covid. That is a rant too far. Merkel, Macron etc have the same economic issues. 

unless you are of course talking about something else. 

I am not a fan , never have been. He is noticeably absent at the moment. There again he can hardly be calling into hospitals etc etc. I suspect his bout in hospital took a greater toll than we understand. 
 

Ooogh! Thanks for that Glad you understood me correctly!

There was no need to blame democracy when there were much bigger causes.

Progressives were so tribal they couldn't bring themselves to vote tactically. There was a progressive majority across the UK by a few percentage points. Maybe Boris would always have won this time but his majority might not have been anything like as scary as it is now. Really good MPs were lost by a thousand votes or less because of this.... like Vernon Coaker in my next door constituency, because highly educated Lib Dems were so fearful of Corbyn they were prepared to let in a Boris toady. Given the views of a good number of the more moderate Labour MPs Corbyn couldn't  get a working majority for his crazier ideas even if he had a miraculous performance and pulled off a Labour win (and in any case Vernon was always moderate Labour). Corbyn was simply only to be feared by fools as he couldn't gain the power to be dangerous. Boris was to be feared as a working majority was always a strong possibility. The same foolishness applies to Labour voters in Lib Dem marginals. As Hestletine and other genuine one nation torys pointed out it was something moderate Tory's should also be thinking about. Under normal circumstances I would happily support those not tactically voting but Boris was always very obviously a special danger with his outright dishonesty,  popularist gaming and obsession with power and all with a very good chance of gaining a working majority. 

A bigger issue is how we came to a point as a society where a dangerous popularist like Boris could have got anywhere in politics: he demonstrates a complete failure of holding politicians to account and clear establishment complicity.

Ita also highlights the millions left behind and blighted by austerity and in the north of England how Labour did too little to help.

Had to look that one up. 

So yes - Possibly.

Sorry, I was talking about Brexit. No Johnson - no Brexit. People forget the plunge in the £ in 2016 and the steadily worsening economic outlook the following 3 years, but it was real enough. It's also going to get a whole lot worse - Nissan are finally beginning to tell it as it is, maybe they've realised that Teresa May's money tree has been shaken bare? And a catastrophic WTO agreement is hurtling towards us like an express train. No one in the UK government has the common sense or bottle to say, things have changed just a little bit since Jan 2020, let's take stock and maybe defer for six months - let's be seen to be reasonable, be seen to cooperate with the EU rather than be adversarial, let's take the heat out of the one situation we can control.

I don't whether this is scurrilous, but I'm amazed that there has been no more reference to his new child and 'fiance' - even a single photo of the happy threesome would have been manna for the media, and a very natural and welcome antidote to the doom and gloom. Even a cynic like me would have allowed them a bit of a display of affection and pride. The absence doesn't look good. I wouldn't wish anyone to be in position of responsibility he is in without some sort of domestic stability and support behind him/her. Imagine if your best friend and confidante was Dominic 'irascible' Cummings? 

Boris seems temperamentally similar to Cummings- hence the buddy relationship.

I really don't think Johnson understands guilt. In any case, nothing will be his fault.

I don't see that at all. Johnson - booze, bonhomie, back slapping, wants to be liked, superficial. Cummings: Angry, bitter, stressed, disdainful, intelectual pretensions.

Having met Johnson on a number of occasions, I have no good things to say about him, but in this respect I am happy not to see pictures of a cosy family trio. There does need to be separation of public and private, and to my mind, the public parading of spouse and offspring by politicians is not necessarily a good thing. Remember too that Symonds' has a mind of her own and it is not impossible she doesn't want to be displayed to the world in this way. 

You are welcome. I feel like I am seeing that sort of thing increasingly; it can be my new niggle 😃

I think we're in a perfect storm. Johnson has a reputation for being unwilling to put the work into major issues and tending to make sweeping statements and play to the crowd. Couple this with having had Covid, a new baby and dealing with the Covid outbreak, then anyone would struggle.

My concern is that it will be easier for him to say 'No deal Brexit' as it plays well with his power base and avoids him having to actually wrestle with one of the most difficult negotiations this country has ever faced. This seems increasingly to be the view in Europe - he doesn't really want a deal (or at least to have to put the legwork in to get one).

If we look at what Parliament has just done - huge queues to vote to make voting unrepresentative and massively inefficient - we have a view of the current Government. The cynic in me thinks they've made voting difficult simply so they don't have to have votes. At least it's raining now and maybe their views will be tempered by standing in the rain for a few hours.  I hope Rees-Mogg acts the gentleman and stands at the back of the queue.

Nissan is currently a poor example ( It was announced last week hey are closing their Barcelona plant from December with it is reckoned 25,000 jobs going in the Spanish supply chain), so I would be careful with that one.

Covid is easily going to far outstrip anything from Brexit.

Where's that tiny violin.

E

Yes, that was good news for Sunderland last week. Until this morning when Ashwani Gupta made his no deal Brexit comments.

E

Well if Covid is septicaemia in the right leg then Brexit is shooting yourself in the left foot whilst still in recovery from the more serious ailment. 

To state that Covid will outstrip Brexit is obviously true but there will be harm caused by Brexit that could be avoided. And rattling the cage with talk of a no deal situation (as per Gupta this morning) will not be aiding our recovery.

They (the govt.) will be hoping that the damage from Covid masks the damage from Brexit but account should still be kept.

How the bloody hell is it his fault?  Nissan have always been totally up front that a 'no deal' Brexit would be disastrous for the Sunderland plant. 

Nissan Sunderland has more to worry about with Nissans financial performance and position in the market place than Brexit. Sometimes we do not understand how competetive within a car group a plant has to be to gain work. Plants are involved in continuous internal brutal cost cutting auctions.Brexit will be part of the picture but not the exclusive issue for the plants future.

you reap what you sow

The more I see Johnson and his government screwing this up on all fronts, the more his hardcore seem to support them. It's baffling. I keep thinking about Trump's "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose voters" and how it becomes more and more prescient by the day, only our government have "shot" a lot more than one person. Probably the wisest thing Trump has said as politician.

well he certainly wasnt practicing for PMQs.

... At least it's raining now and maybe their views will be tempered by standing in the rain for a few hours.  I hope Rees-Mogg acts the gentleman and stands at the back of the queue.

If he gets a cough and cold through standing in the rain, I do hope he goes into isolation for the appropriate period - which would mean not being able to vote even remotely. What a shame that would be.

Judging my his public persona, he doesn't seem like the kind of parent who gets up at night for a crying baby.

It is a considerablewaste of parliamentary time for people who have better more pressing issues to manage. the normal votng proceure takes a couple of minutes, the new system takes 30 minutes plus. Do that a few times a day and it becomes ridiculous.

I expect there will be a compromise in a few days. The genie of electronic voting has been let out of the bag.Its like video conferencing etc, once you start impossible to go back.

Covid is a one off shock that may indeed last for several years, but economies do bounce back from such shocks. Brexit is a permanent reduction in our wealth, each and every year, for years and years. That's without taking into account its corrosive effect on our politics.

No they don't. Countries that have regained control of their covid epedemic are on a very different economic trajectory to us as we once again fan the fires of infection to briefly distract from government corruption and failure.

With vigilance and a little luck those other better run countries go through this pain just once on route toward recovery or at least stability in stagnation. We're clearly now going to have to do it all again costing us vastly more debt and lives, crushing consumer and investor confidence and isolating us from the ecosystem in which Britain exists more completely than any dimwit Brexit loon could ever have hoped to.

jk

I've read this a number of times but I have my doubts as to how true it really is. Certainly, covid is certain to put an enormous hole in UK GDP this year and may have much smaller effects in subsequent years, but Brexit looks certain to be a significant financial burden for decades. If it were to make the UK 5% less competitive year on year then it wouldn't take many years for it to add up to the total one-off covid hit. Numbers are of course made up and unknowable but it's the principle that matters.

If I remember my high school maths correctly, it's something to do with calculating the area under curves.

Indeed, and infact an economy recovering from CV19 with nice easy trade deals with all its existing partners is going to fair an awful lot better than one who tears up all their trading agrements in the middle of the pandemic

FFS I  voted remain.

For a start we  have 1/4 of the working poulation on furlough ( if anything until then unemployment has stayed remarkably resiliant). Whole global  industries are closed down.More specifically  its a global economic issue not a specific Uk centred issue.

The Bank of England says UK unemployment could rise towards 10% from its currently level of 4% due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) lockdown.Despite what we may think of Brexit, unemployment has not even been a real issue until Covid.

It also suggests gross domestic product could tumble by 14% in 2020, with a huge 25% decrease in the second quarter of the year being partially offset by the beginnings of economic recovery following the easing of the lockdown restrictions.

I do not need to be telling you all this,.

This is real stuff happening now, not an if we do this Brexit deal this will happen scenario.

If any posters are trying to kid themselves that Brexit may/ may not  have the same current  economic  impact then they need to get a serious rethink.

Whose fault??

E

By power base do you mean his sponsors or voters? He'll certainly do what one of those groups wants and doing it under the cover of covid only makes it more likely the other group can be persuaded the consequences were unavoidably someone else's fault.

This is lunacy bourne of weakness and also a glimmer of light. They are *that* scared of routinely exposing Johnson and his cabinet of incompetents to forensic scrutiny at the hands of someone more than capable they'll go to ridiculous lengths to mitigate the risk.

jk

Urgh, I genuinely hadn't thought about that. You're probably correct on this but it's far too depressing to consider in these terms.

The lump figure of the Covid "bail out" looms large so I didn't consider the compound effect of years of poor trade negotiations.

Grim.

Don't worry everyone, panic over, Boris is back in charge of this awkward COVID thingy.  We have his undivided attention.

https://www.thetelegram.com/news/world/british-pm-johnson-is-in-charge-of-c...

I don't doubt that you're right, but piling a no deal on the COVID depression would be an act of epic stupidity on the part of the government.   

Johnson was elected with a landslide saying 'Get Brexit Done'. I didn't hear too much emphasis on 'with a great trade deal'. That's the electorate.  For his supporters, a low tax, low regulation economy would align with the view that the UK should become more like the US (with inequalities getting worse). I don't think even the most blinkered voter really believed the 'levelling up' concept. 

Where do you get that idea other than some vague feeling?  There was a lot of talk of 'red wall' votes only being lent to the Tories, wanting redress for feeling left behind, etc.  Obviously they're going to get totally f*cked over, especially in the event of a no-deal Brexit, but if you vote for a pathological liar, what can you expect?

As you say, a feeling. The feeling of being left behind was real and tangible. The thought that Johnson or farage,  purporting to be men of the people rather than a privileged elite, was so far from reality that I can't believe anyone could fall for it. Johnson tried to court the north a bit at first as this was his chance to destroy Labour forever. I don't think that's going to work out for him.