Pardon?

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 elsewhere 19 Jan 2021

Trump's last day in office so who does he pardon?

Cronies?
Family members?
Will he pardon himself?

 Philip 19 Jan 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

The lack of any legal basis to pardon some people will probably not be an obstacle to him trying anything.

Let's go full jumping the shark, I bet he pardons anyone for anything they do ever, but only 1 things per person, but you have to have a MAGA hat to claim it.

Like the monopoly get out of jail card.

Or more certainly, as it has to be federal crimes, I bet he pardons all the capitol invaders.

 fred99 19 Jan 2021
In reply to Philip:

> Or more certainly, as it has to be federal crimes, I bet he pardons all the capitol invaders.

If he does, then his lawyers will find it an awful lot more difficult to claim he had nothing to do with them.

And it will also raise the question "Can the President pardon co-conspirators in a crime when HE is one of the criminals in the conspiracy ?".

Certainly not what the Presidential Pardoning was all about in the first place, and something that could well be challenged in court.

 Rob Parsons 19 Jan 2021
In reply to fred99:

> Certainly not what the Presidential Pardoning was all about in the first place ...

What was Presidential Pardoning was all about in the first place?

 FactorXXX 19 Jan 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> What was Presidential Pardoning was all about in the first place?

Burping and farting at the dinner table.

 deepsoup 19 Jan 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

> Cronies?
> Family members?

Paying punters?

That'll help the old cash flow a bit at $2 million a pop.

In reply to elsewhere:

The way I see it, he must have two theoretical endgames on his mind.

1. If I don't do it, we all go to prison for a long time, it's worth a shot despite legally admitting some guilt. 

2. I don't think I will be convicted by the senate, and after my aquittal I will fight and dodge any legal battles to keep myself out of prison, therefore I should be able to avoid the humiliation of needing to pardon myself.  

I think 1 is more likely for a desparate despot, but 2 makes some sense too. 

 jkarran 19 Jan 2021
In reply to Philip:

> Or more certainly, as it has to be federal crimes, I bet he pardons all the capitol invaders.

I bet he doesn't. As is there's still a good chance he won't be successfully impeached, if he pardons them it's tantamount to an admission of complicity putting a premature end to the next few years of rallies and ego stroking grift. He'll let them rot without a second thought.

jk

 yorkshireman 19 Jan 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

It occurred to me that it would be a good move for Biden to use the house and senate majority to push for the abolition of presidential pardons. I don't know how possible that is but they seem to be a bit of an anachronism - surely in a progressive, liberal, western democracy (I know, I know) you should be able to rely on a robust justice system rather than a Caesar-like ability to just let people off which as we've seen is wide open to abuse. 

 fred99 19 Jan 2021
In reply to yorkshireman:

There should certainly be some fairly basic rules, such as - NO pardons for anyone the President has any connection with.

Pardoning someone for a "former" crime which is no longer criminal is a different matter however (such as homosexuals who were formerly criminalised purely because of their sexual persuasion).

 mondite 19 Jan 2021
In reply to yorkshireman:

>  you should be able to rely on a robust justice system rather than a Caesar-like ability to just let people off which as we've seen is wide open to abuse. 

I think it does serve a purpose hence why its kept in the UK as well. US example being pardoning all the vietnam draft dodgers.

I think shifting it out of the presidents direct control though makes sense.

 yorkshireman 19 Jan 2021
In reply to mondite:

> I think it does serve a purpose hence why its kept in the UK as well. US example being pardoning all the vietnam draft dodgers.

Good points - have no issue with that and same with fred99's comment.

> I think shifting it out of the presidents direct control though makes sense.

Again I agree completely. I think as with many aspects of the presidency Trump has shown that previously established norms are only as strong as the integrity of the person subject to them. I worry he's set a precedent and this could be a good opportunity to set some more robust rules around the conduct of future presidents (make tax returns mandatory along with blind trusts, transparent cognitive testing, more rigour around clemency/pardons).

 mondite 19 Jan 2021
In reply to yorkshireman:

> I worry he's set a precedent and this could be a good opportunity to set some more robust rules around the conduct of future presidents (make tax returns mandatory along with blind trusts, transparent cognitive testing, more rigour around clemency/pardons).

Some others gave dubious pardons (Clinton for example gave a pardon to someone whose wife donated generously to a campaign) but as with most things Trump took it to corrupt stage 11.

Locking down the powers would help although is treating a symptom rather than the cause. The problem is all the people voting for a self serving arsehole and until that is solved there will always be the ability to exploit the situation since, after all, the president does need plenty of power to do the job.

 Iamgregp 19 Jan 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

Among the more expected individuals, there's rumours that he's also planning to pardon Joe Exotic and Lil' Wayne...


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