Motorbikes and Noise Pollution

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Removed User 25 Apr 2021

It's time to clamp down on noisy motorbikes with properly enforced on the spot fines for noise pollution above a certain level. Discuss? 

It seems to me that the level of noise pollution caused by motorbikes in otherwise tranquil and beautiful parts of the UK is a now getting out of control. The noise they make is much more disruptive than that made by cars. And you can hear them from miles away.

It also seems to be the case that the majority of bikers routinely disregard the speed limit and behave as though the roads are their own private race tracks. I read something recently about a survey in Paris, where they're clamping down on noise pollution, that one loud bike disturbed over 11,000 people. 

Personally, I'd ban them from National Parks and have lower speed limits specifically for motorbikes. That might make such an anti social pastime less attractive to the gangs of middle aged men ( because they do seem to almost exclusively middle aged men) who I'm sure are otherwise upstanding members of their communities.

31
 ring ouzel 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

No leave the bikers. But dogs in public areas should be on leads at all times. If the dog is loose then shoot the owner (it isnt the dogs fault).

40
 wintertree 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

We regularly have groups of sports bikes accelerating to well over 60 mph on the 30 mph straight out of the village.  It sucks.  Their absence was a pleasure in the first lockdown, especially the noise.

On the flip side, the air ambulance is a regular visitor to scrape some of them off the tarmac, and Jr got to look at the cockpit as well as watch it take off once; one of the air crew stays with the vehicle and was very happy to show it off.

By the end of the season, the sides of the B6277 are littered with bits of broken bodywork off bikes.

If you look at the accident stats by day of week it looks like most car accidents are commute related and most bike ones occur on the weekend...

In fairness there are a lot more bikes obeying the speed limits and sensible riding, and without stupid exhausts.  The number of problem bikes is not insignificant however.

3
 Timmd 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I'm blessed with access to spots where they don't intrude, but it must be annoying. I was listening to somebody hooning about at 3am this morning while going to sleep (couldn't work out if it was carried by the wind from far away, or was from somewhere urban and close by), and thought the Peak must make a great racetrack during the depth of night, with minimal antisocial impact.

I think lower allowable DB levels would be my approach, seems rather unfair to ban motorbikes from National Parks, and they're a greener way for one person to travel, and two persons presumably. 

nb: I wouldn't advocate treating the Peak like a racetrack.

Post edited at 18:36
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Message Removed 25 Apr 2021
Reason: inappropriate content
 wercat 25 Apr 2021
In reply to wintertree:

Last time we were at Killhope Wheel the noise from the Alston-Weardale road was constant for the hours we were there and at times made it hard to speak quietly.  that was some years ago so what it is like now I can only guess.  When I ride my bike on the Alston-Melmerby section of that road it can be quite scary descending when powerful motorbikes cross the lines on a bend almost hitting you.

Post edited at 18:42
 65 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Timmd:

>  and they're a greener way for one person to travel, and two persons presumably. 

Not really. Most bikes with an eye on performance will consume a lot more fuel than the average car. I used to have a motorcycling flatmate who was always sanctimonious about how polluting my car was, but didn't see a problem with asking me to transport his bulky camping kit on weekends away. He did have a very economical motorcycle (Transalp), whereas my car did mid-high 30s mpg, but then I usually had a passenger, and three people's kit... 

This thread is such a heartwarming example of how brits find it so easy to live in harmony, isn't it

FWIW, I think the only times I've been annoyed by loud bikes* was once on Rannoch Wall on a Friday afternoon when there was continuous wailing from sports bikes getting caned across the top of the moor and once cycling up the Gardena Pass, and only then because they were non-stop, it was relentless.

*Except Harleys. I'm always annoyed by Harleys.

Post edited at 18:54
8
 Wimlands 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I hate the noise...our neighbours were firing up their “hog” today. Unbelievably loud.

Heres the answer...Harley Davidson Livewire.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/harley-davidson/livewire/2019/

 Timmd 25 Apr 2021
In reply to 65:

> Not really. Most bikes with an eye on performance will consume a lot more fuel than the average car. I used to have a motorcycling flatmate who was always sanctimonious about how polluting my car was, but didn't see a problem with asking me to transport his bulky camping kit on weekends away. He did have a very economical motorcycle (Transalp), whereas my car did mid-high 30s mpg, but then I usually had a passenger, and three people's kit... 

> This thread is such a heartwarming example of how brits find it so easy to live in harmony, isn't it

> FWIW, I think the only times I've been annoyed by loud bikes* was once on Rannoch Wall on a Friday afternoon when there was continuous wailing from sports bikes getting caned across the top of the moor and once cycling up the Gardena Pass, and only then because they were non-stop, it was relentless.

> *Except Harleys. I'm always annoyed by Harleys.

Yes, it depends on one's lifestyle, and the bike in question, and possibly other factors. I'm pretty bothered about green issues, but I'm surprised you didn't take the mickey out of your flatmate, and tell him by you not taking his bulky gear, you were helping the planet with less fuel being used in your car, to make up for not riding a motorbike, just to be annoying before taking it. 

It isn't on to tell somebody off for having a car, and to ask them to carry things as well, a bit of friendly micky taking can be a fun thing.

I'd be surprised if 'for a given 0-60 ability', bikes weren't always more fuel efficient...

Post edited at 19:13
6
 veteye 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Timmd:

> nb: I wouldn't advocate treating the Peak like a racetrack.

One of the challenges used to be trying to ride up and down the Strines as fast as possible, but in a very smooth way.

I had an aftermarket can on my bike, but it was more of a smooth low purr (and no I don't mean the boring thump of the Harley Davidson and the like) and did not have a harsh noise. It would not waken you up. At the same time it gave 7BHP extra power to the bike. So guilty of riding faster on the windy roads, but was really observant about all going on about me. Never rode like that when tired; in fact I tended not to be on the bike if not in total senses acuity. Never drunk, even half a beer. 

Of course I understand the issue with 60 in a 30 limit. That happens with cars on my road, but seldom bikes.

I have not ridden my bike for ~14 years after I had a plate put in my neck following a fall in Avon Gorge (and yes I did read the thread on the suicide there, but it did bring up that there are a good number of accidents there). So can't do the life-saver swift backwards evaluation of any threats from the rear etc.

2
 Fat Bumbly2 25 Apr 2021
In reply to ring ouzel:

Leave the quiet bikers.

 Timmd 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Wimlands:

At least it's fleeting, if it's a neighbour firing up a bike, but at my local beauty spot, a guy was sitting in a chair drinking beers while playing tunes from his portable sound system, so that the base could be heard from all around it the local area (within where people generally like to sit and look at the view). 

Mentioning the noise to somebody already set up and full of beer is likely to only get one response, was my thinking, and it's debatable if it's another person's place to mention it, but it's still kinda anti social. I went to somewhere quieter...

Post edited at 19:43
 Lankyman 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

It must be quite exciting for them as they hurtle round the bend and are almost decapitated by my oncoming wing mirror. Up at the Devil's Bridge today and it was rammed with red faced old gits and their unfeasibly big fart boxes. I reckon it's a kind of willy waving contest for them.

4
 Alkis 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I don't think that they should be banned from anywhere. I do think however that the modded exhausts some of them use should be banned from everywhere, and enforced *harshly*. I was cycling through Matlock Bank and one went past that made such a ridiculously loud bang that my right ear was ringing for half an hour afterwards. It sounded like an outright explosion.

Same with obnoxious cars. Later on the same ride, I stopped for lunch in Bakewell, some modded car came past, doing what looked like 20MPH at what sounded like 6000RPM. Impound the bastard thing if the owner is that much of a bellend.

Long story short, anyone driving any vehicle that is being horrifically antisocial should face consequences.

Post edited at 19:53
 Tom Valentine 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

>  That might make such an anti social pastime less attractive to the gangs of middle aged men ( because they do seem to almost exclusively middle aged men) who I'm sure are otherwise upstanding members of their communities.

In spite of the boom in born again bikers, the majority of insured motorcyclists are in the 20 -30 age group. i can't imagine that the younger end of the biking fraternity want to ride quieter bikes than the older enthusiasts  but who knows. 

I'm pretty sure that if you added the teararses who  terrorise our village on their bikes and quads to the equation the average age would go down even more, the difference being that these bastards are almost definitely not insured.

Post edited at 20:31
 ianstevens 25 Apr 2021
In reply to ring ouzel:

> No leave the bikers. But dogs in public areas should be on leads at all times. If the dog is loose then shoot the owner (it isnt the dogs fault).

Why not both?

2
 Martin Wood 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

> It must be quite exciting for them as they hurtle round the bend and are almost decapitated by my oncoming wing mirror. 

For that to happen at least one of you is in the wrong position on the road!

 Dax H 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I'm going to give my perspective as a Biker, I'm not a weekend warrior I ride all year round and where possible will always take my bike rather than my van.

Okay background out of the way, noisy exhausts. I had a custom can on my bike as a lot of bikers do but I had a revaluation whilst on a touring holiday in the alps. There were 3 of us and one guy got split up. 2 of us stopped on top of a mountain pass where you could see for miles. No sign of the missing guy but then I heard him coming. Still couldn't see him though but eventually way in the distance I could see a tiny black spec coming down the road.

It too him a good 20 minutes to reach us with the noise getting louder and louder.

My bike and his were identical including the same aftermarket exhaust. The first thing I did when I got home was put the standard exhaust back on. The level of noise pollution in a beautiful part of the world was not on for me, I love a good engine note but when it travels over that distance it's not on.

I'm also going to add, I have met some great people biking but in the most part I avoided bikers because most of them are antisocial pricks who just want to out do each other being a rebel with their loud pipes and registration plate the size of a playing card. 

 elliot.baker 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I've never understood noisy vehicles, one of our neighbours has a mini that makes a right racket every single morning at about 7am when they go to work, and then there are numerous bikes, one of which regularly goes past in the middle of the night and must wake up the whole street (if not the whole town). What I don't get, and I feel so old saying this, is - why would you want a vehicle that will wake everyone up and disturb them? What about your family and friends? Would you want to drive past their house or arrive back at home and wake them up or disturb them? Why would you want to do that to people you know, and those you don't?

Edit: but it was nice to read the post above from Dax H making his vehicle quieter again!

Post edited at 20:54
 Rob Parsons 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Dax H:

> Okay background out of the way, noisy exhausts. I had a custom can on my bike as a lot of bikers do but I had a revaluation whilst on a touring holiday in the alps. ... The first thing I did when I got home was put the standard exhaust back on.

Apart from noise/note, what's the supposed advantage of the custom exhaust?

 FreshSlate 25 Apr 2021
In reply to 65:

> Most bikes with an eye on performance will consume a lot more fuel than the average car. 

Most cars with an eye on performance will  consume a lot more than the average car. Also they'll consume a lot more than the average bike with an 'eye on performance'. 

A honda cbf can do 160mpg. A gas guzzling Harley Davidson maybe about 45-50mpg as will a sports bike. My distinctly average 1.6l car would struggle to top 40mpg, so I don't think this is true at all. 

 Albert Tatlock 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Apparently it gives bikers half a tea cake on🏍💥

 Rob Parsons 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Oh aye, Albert! But is that it?

 Albert Tatlock 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Yes, I ride an Itchyfanny 750cc with a bean can exhaust, sweet as a nut.

 65 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Timmd:

> It isn't on to tell somebody off for having a car, and to ask them to carry things as well, a bit of friendly micky taking can be a fun thing.

I did point this out to him in my own, ahem, manner. But it would have been petty to refuse to take his stuff. He was a good guy and good to have on a rope. He managed an alpine climbing holiday with the late Simon4 so he was capable of withstanding robust banter.

 Tom Valentine 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Martin Wood:

it's usually the biker at fault. 

Some  don't seem to realise that there's a difference between where their tyres are and where their head is in relation to the vertical, so when cranking it over on a right hander their wheels may well be on the correct side of the road but their head and shoulders are overlapping the centre line substantially and   are quite capable of being struck by an oncoming car who is well on his own side of the road.

Post edited at 22:11
3
 gethin_allen 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

it's no just bikes, it's modded cars too, especially with the latest trend to get a custom engine map to add massive pops and bangs.

I don't get it personally, surely these people must get bored of making a racket for no go reason. As a teenager a friend spent a load on a stupid big exhaust for his crap little car and after a while going anywhere it just became annoying. A long journey on the motorway was just painful and usually we'd end up taking my bog standard car.

 Kalna_kaza 25 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I totally get the thrill of bikes, tearing up the A82 across Rannoch Moor in blue skies and talking about max revs at the Green Welly Stop is surely a right of passage for most UK bikers.

But let's be honest, the noise is excessive. Standing on the top of Grisdale Pike or Blencathra you shouldn't have to hear someone ragging along the A66 at 8000 rpm. At my work anything above 85dB is classed as dangerous noise levels and ear protection must be worn. That level of noise isn't necessary for high speeds or performance, silencing devices can be used. 

I'm not sure of the impact of the ban on internal combustion engines regards motorbikes but hopefully the high frequency din of a Yamaha going full tilt is reduced somewhat.

 Dax H 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> Apart from noise/note, what's the supposed advantage of the custom exhaust?

A lot of bikers will tell you loud pipes save lives, that is crap though. With the noise coming out of the back the other road users don't hear the bike until it passes them (with the exception of Harleys, everyone hears them)

Some will tell you it makes their bike run better, this is often true. Bikes are hobbled to meet various economy and noise standards that "cripple" their performance. I put cripple in quote marks because of this example, a mate remapped and fit a new exhaust and some other bits to his 200 bhp bike to lift it to 205 bhp. I don't class 2.5% as crippled and at the time I had a 70 bhp bike that he couldn't keep up with if there were any bends in the road.

People fit loud cans because it's the social norm to do so. You pull up to a bike cafe with a standard can and people come up to you with advice on what to fit to make the bike and you cooler. I briefly fell for it before giving my head a shake.

Edit to add. My last bike a 1200 cc touring bike (55 mpg with me, the wife the dog and luggage on) had a very slight power dip at 4500 rpm that could be "fixed" with a remap and a new exhaust that doesn't have a cat and minimal baffles. I rode that bike for 3 years and did just short of 40k miles on every road condition you can imagine from sea level to 2802 meters and I'm not sure I even detected the power dip. I only knew it was there because the owners forum was full of people posting dyno graphs of before and after they got the "fix" done

Post edited at 06:19
2
 wintertree 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Dax H:

> ... the dog ...

How do you get the dog to stay on?

 veteye 26 Apr 2021
In reply to wintertree:

It leans into the corners, silly!

In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

It's pretty simple just get more officers on the road and get them stopping bikes with illegal exhausts. Same for the souped up cars with illegal exhasts I actually see more of where I live.

 JeanMilburn 26 Apr 2021

I like to go journey but on Motorbike 

 lorentz 26 Apr 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

After all the posh residents started to complain of being woken up, they're  trialling a noise activated CCTV in central London. Cars and bikes above a certain decibel are issued with warnings and then fines... Problem is, if you're driving a £100k+ supercar through the mean streets of Kensington after midnight then a £120 fine is the sort of small change you'd find down the back of your handstitched Italian leather carseat.

I'm hoping it will catch on though as we've got some "super"biker round here who started in the the first lockdown doing laps around the neighbourhood from around 4am. Starts far away gets closer and louder, fades a bit and then comes back around over and over again. Antisocial ****!

 Lankyman 26 Apr 2021
In reply to JeanMilburn:

> I like to go journey but on Motorbike 

No you don't. You ride a moped.

1
 Martin Wood 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> it's usually the biker at fault. 

My experience as a cyclist in the Peak is somewhat different. It is typically car drivers who can't or won't hold the correct line on RH bends. 

1
 Philb1950 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

OK I get it you don’t like motorbikes and I for one would definitely ban them from green lanes where they are totally incongruous to the environment and cause erosion and a hazard to other users. Loud exhausts can be stopped under current regulations if the police choose. But consider this. They stick to roads, so no erosion, are unlikely to wreck verges, throw rubbish, abandon camping gear, use disposable barbecues and set fire to moorland. Neither will they trash crags wrecking the environment, strip vegetation and pull loose rock off before placing bolts for ever more climbers to visit and accelerate the degradation. I remember grass, shrubs and trees on most gritstone crags with grass right up to the rock face. Contrast that to the Plantation or Cratcliffe where the rock and surroundings are trashed, or Rubicon and Raven Tor where all the foot of the crags were edged and surrounded with bushes and trees, all cut down or removed, leaving dust and dirt. The point is there are too many people all with a feeling of entitlement to pursue their chosen activity and we have to accept that. The best of this world is long gone.

2
 hang_about 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Martin Wood:

Motorbikes for noise. Was walking down Wyming Brook a couple of weekends ago and the howl of motorbikes was pretty continuous.

Cars for trying to kill you. Fri evening's especially. Got buzzed by a couple of boy racers coming up Bamford Edge a few weeks ago. An impressively crumpled boy racer on that same road Sunday morning (car looks a write off but it looks as if passengers etc would have been OK). Porsche's not able to keep to their side of the road on Strines. D*ckhe@ds doing close pass with passenger hanging out of window when doing Edale route up to Mam Tor. 

Maybe I should start climbing again for safety now we're coming out of lockdown....

 65 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Dax H:

> A lot of bikers will tell you loud pipes save lives, that is crap though. With the noise coming out of the back the other road users don't hear the bike until it passes them (with the exception of Harleys, everyone hears them)

I hear this a lot from a colleague who has an ancient chopper (1970s Kawasaki straight 4, not sure what) with the pipes cut off just in front of the back wheel. Straight through, you can hear it several postcodes away. And he does have a 'Loud pipes save lives' sticker on the back mudguard. 

I used to believe it, until I realised that the bikes passing me on Rannoch Moor were for a crucial second or so at the mercy of my observation before I heard them screaming by, by which time I could see them anyway. You're right about hearing Harleys, and Ducatis too with loud pipes, but I can't be the only one who sometimes drives along listening to noisy music which pretty much drowns everything else out.

cb294 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Tom Valentine:

A guy I was in the army with got decapitated by a bus in exactly that way. Motorbike and his leathers were pretty much OK, according to the guys riding behind him (not me, I did own a bike at the time but I love my life too much to even consider trying to keep up with these nutters!).

Never mind, if he had not taken that opportunity he would have found another way of suicide by motorbike.

Who in their right mind goes through two pairs of foot rests per year, road riding a KLR600 enduro bike?

Back to the OP, I would force the owners of bikes or cars with illegal exhausts watch their vehicles thrown into a scrap metal compactor. They can keep the resulting block as a memento.....

CB

 65 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Martin Wood:

> My experience as a cyclist in the Peak is somewhat different. It is typically car drivers who can't or won't hold the correct line on RH bends. 

Yes. As a cyclist, motorbikes don't bother me. I think I've only waved my fist at one bike (on the Grand Ballon in the Vosges) because he was on his side doing an insane speed towards me and I didn't see how he was going to avoid piling into me. He did, albeit in a very hairy tankslappy fashion. But I figure that motorcyclists aren't generally fiddling with satnavs/phone/climate control/hifi/nails/etc or looking elsewhere apart from where they are going. And if they do hit me, they'll likely be off as well. 

1
 LastBoyScout 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> Apart from noise/note, what's the supposed advantage of the custom exhaust?

Weight, for a start - standard cans for a lot of bikes weigh a lot more than an after-market one, especially if you've gone to a carbon one.

Then performance - gains of around 7-10 bhp aren't uncommon, maybe more. On many mid-range bikes, that's around 10% more.

One possible advantage of having a noisy exhaust is that a driver that doesn't spot you might hear you and not pull out in front of you, but that's debatable if you're riding defensively.

Most bikers won't really hear the noise themselves, as they will be wearing earplugs - wind noise on a helmet can knacker your hearing and some are notorious for being deafening (literally).

 LastBoyScout 26 Apr 2021
In reply to gethin_allen:

> it's no just bikes, it's modded cars too, especially with the latest trend to get a custom engine map to add massive pops and bangs.

Mate of mine has a tuned up Scooby, but it has a dual-map ECU - one map is for economical "driving miss daisy" use and the other is "drive it like you stole it" mode for racing Porsches up the autobahns (he lives in Germany).

 Tigger 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Wimlands:

Have a look at the Damon Hypersport or if you have the cash and Arc Vector (made in Wales I think), I can't wait till electric bike become more widely availiable and drop in price. To get something with decent motorway range your looking at £18,000+ atm.

Removed User 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I was walking on some hills above the East side of Loch Lomond last week. Descending down to the Loch the only noise I heard from the main road on the opposite bank was the occasional motorbike even though I could see many cars and trucks on it. It certainly highlighted how much noisier they are.

Surely though there's legislation limiting the noise a vehicle can produce? If not there should be.

Also, looking forward a few years when electric bikes are the norm, screaming exhausts will become a thing of the past. Which leads to me ask why I've not seen an electric bike yet?

 Alkis 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Perhaps you have, if you are anything like me you wouldn't be looking in that direction if you couldn't hear it.

1
 Angrypenguin 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

This is a subject I have been thinking about lately as a biker and climber getting back out again after covid/winter.

There is existing legislation about noise emissions from bikes. It is very specific, a maximum of X db at 3 ft at 3000 rpm or something like that. The problem is just that it is not enforced.

Manufacturers get around the rules by selling exhausts with a removable sound deadening baffle. The baffle reduces the noise to a legal level and supposedly you should only remove the baffle on the track as it makes it illegal for road use. Of course a lot of people take it out and only put it back in for the MOT.

I personally don't believe "loud pipes save lives" - on this basis any cyclist in the city should have a siren! Some recent reasonable looking academic research backs this up: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/new-study-confirms-loud-pipes-save-lives-is-sa...

I think the loud bikes (and cars too) is primarily an antisocial thing (i.e. my enjoyment of the noise is more important than others dislike of it). I think it is also a community driven thing, if you are in a group that does it, or watch a lot of youtube videos of people doing it, you are more likely to want to do it too. As we have seen with all the political stuff lately, the power of groupthink is very strong, there is the element of wanting to fit in and and also the self justification, where if you and others around you justify a behaviour enough then it can become normalised.

I think the solution is really easy - just enforce existing rules. However, with all such things, this will need political will. If you feel strongly about it, contact your local representative and enough people do this it will become a policing priority. Local to me there is a road where young people rent Lamborghinis and race up and down at night, enough people complained so the police cracked down a bit and it is much better now.

 Angrypenguin 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

> Also, looking forward a few years when electric bikes are the norm, screaming exhausts will become a thing of the past. Which leads to me ask why I've not seen an electric bike yet?

They are coming but are way behind electric cars still. There are quite a few points against. One is that the power to weight is more important on a bike so the heavy batteries make a much bigger difference than in a car. Another aspect is the small market size of bikes compared to cars. Monthly sales numbers for the big manufacturers are in the hundreds or low thousands and a lot of that is scooters/mopeds. This means there isn't the economy of scale in design or production and so they are disproportionately expensive, it's still £30,000 or more for a good electric bike but you can buy a decent petrol race bike for £10,000.

Having said that, there has been an electric category at the TTs (one of the biggest annual motorcycling races in the world) for 10 years now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT_Zero. The winning lap time has decreased by 25% over that time which shows you how the technology is maturing.

Post edited at 13:21
 jkarran 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

People in glass houses and all that so I'm not going to get on my high horse about bikes or engine noise. That said, taking the dog for his bedtime walk last night someone was sat banging their earsplitting bike off the rev limiter at the traffic lights. It's an awesome sound but midnight in suburbia... tw@.

jk

 hang_about 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Angrypenguin:

I was in China at the end of 2019. Electric mopeds everywhere!

 Big Bruva 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

> It's time to clamp down on noisy motorbikes with properly enforced on the spot fines for noise pollution above a certain level. Discuss? 

As long as we do the same for climbers trying to scream their way up a piece of overhanging rock in an otherwise quiet, leafy dale

1
 lorentz 26 Apr 2021
In reply to hang_about:

I saw an electric chopper recently. Couldn't identify it, but Harley style body complete with monkey hanger bars etc and a chromed out box where the batteries lived. Totally silent. Pretty cool to look at.

On a side note the bikes used for ferrying tv cameramen filming alongside the athletes on some of the various marathons, triathlons, road races have been switched to electric scooters (BMW iirc)  for a few years... They obviously have zero emissions or fumes  which helps if you're running along behind one for the length of a marathon. They're fitted with conventional horns for traffic and also a less intrusive buzzer for unwitting pedestrians who don't always hear them coming. Have a pretty decent range along great torque and acceleration so the tech is there. Whether they appeal to the type who ride violently loud crotch rockets is another matter! 

cb294 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Tigger:

These look great, especially the Arc!

More realistically, I would love to see a reliable electric equivalent of, say, the BMW R1100, with a focus on range rather than power rather than a hypersport bike.

Energica has one (EVA esse esse 9), but it still is too short range and expensive for my taste.

CB

 CantClimbTom 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

"Loud Pipes Save Lives" is true....  but that's in urban areas not knee-sliding through corners in a national park

4
 Hooo 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

Why pick on motorcyclists? They are no different from car drivers. The majority of them are not causing a noise problem, but you haven't noticed them. It's just a few antisocial arseholes that are bothering you. Where I live there are a few noisy bikes on nice days, but the ones waking us up at night (and killing themselves on the roads) are tw*ts in hot hatchbacks. 

The simple solution is to enforce the law. Set up a spot check at somewhere like Cheddar Gorge. Anyone with an illegal exhaust gets the vehicle impounded. They have to collect it (minus the exhaust, which is scrapped), fit a legal exhaust and get an MOT before they can drive it again. Second offence the vehicle is confiscated and sold at auction ( minus the exhaust). Could be self-funding.

 JMarkW 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Hooo:

> Why pick on motorcyclists? They are no different from car drivers. The majority of them are not causing a noise problem, but you haven't noticed them. It's just a few antisocial arseholes that are bothering you. 

No sure I agree. I was at Garage Buttress on Sunday, I'd say 50% of weekend bikers have illegal/loud cans on. Lots of single cylinders and sports bikes, nakeds etc. 

Lardy boy on his 1250GS is generally quite quiet. Few dodgy loud cars went past but no where near 50%, more like 1%

cheers

mark (VSTROM 650)

2
 wintertree 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Hooo:

> Why pick on motorcyclists? They are no different from car drivers.

> It's just a few antisocial arseholes that are bothering you

Some of us live on "dales loops" and it's not a few antisocial arseholes; it's on the order of 100+ bikes on each of a Saturday and Sunday during the season, and it's painfully loud enough that Jr doesn't like walking along the road to the beloved swings and park when they're out in force.

It's very rare that we see the combination of a car with a loud exhaust and a total disregard for the 30 mph limit on the exit straight.  It's a routine happening with bikes.  Most older adults who drive the kind of super-car to have a loud exhaust don't speed, and most kids with punked up exhausts don't drive the dales loop, they go play in some car park somewhere.  (SEP).

Like I said in my first post, it's not the majority of bikes - but it is enough to be a real pain in the ear.

> The simple solution is to enforce the law. 

Agreed.  

 Timmd 26 Apr 2021
In reply to 65:

> I did point this out to him in my own, ahem, manner. But it would have been petty to refuse to take his stuff. He was a good guy and good to have on a rope. He managed an alpine climbing holiday with the late Simon4 so he was capable of withstanding robust banter.

I'd also never refuse. 

 Ian W 26 Apr 2021
In reply to wintertree:

> Some of us live on "dales loops" and it's not a few antisocial arseholes; it's on the order of 100+ bikes on each of a Saturday and Sunday during the season, and it's painfully loud enough that Jr doesn't like walking along the road to the beloved swings and park when they're out in force.

> It's very rare that we see the combination of a car with a loud exhaust and a total disregard for the 30 mph limit on the exit straight.  It's a routine happening with bikes.  Most older adults who drive the kind of super-car to have a loud exhaust don't speed, and most kids with punked up exhausts don't drive the dales loop, they go play in some car park somewhere.  (SEP).

> Like I said in my first post, it's not the majority of bikes - but it is enough to be a real pain in the ear.

Answering to this one as i frequently ride / drive the same "dales loop" as i suspect you live on / near;

i have never had a loud can on my bike; utterly pointless - if i want to save 3kg i can avoid the pie shop for a couple of weeks. I do not need any more power, even if I could notice the difference. 145bhp at the wheel (according to the dyno) is adequate for a bike. my last one had 110, and that also was more than enough.

If i'm in the car, with the windows up, there is no way i'm going to hear you no matter what can you have on, unless you are in front of me where you are already perfectly visible. So no, I dont think loud cans save lives, its just attention seeking. And yes, there are more than a few. The biking equivalent of the cycling mamil.

 Hooo 26 Apr 2021
In reply to wintertree:

Fair enough, you're obviously in a popular spot for people to go and thrash their bikes. And it probably is true that the majority of bikes in your area have come there specifically to do that, so they are particularly annoying. You have my sympathy, but it's still not the majority of motorcyclists nationally who are arseholes, it's just that all the motorcycling arseholes are converging on your neighborhood. All the more reason to set up a spot check and bust some of them. In terms of police time that should be a big win in terms of improving people's lives for minimum cost. 

 Dax H 26 Apr 2021
In reply to wintertree:

He sits in a dog specific tank bag, he is fastened in via a lanyard to his harness.

He loves it and poses for photos and has a paddy if I go out without him.

Unfortunately now we have 2 dogs and the new one is too big to go on the bike so our touring holidays on 2 wheels are over. 


 LastBoyScout 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> Apart from noise/note, what's the supposed advantage of the custom exhaust?

Should have added that even if you drop your bike at the lights or low-side it on a roundabout, rather than properly crashing it, the exhausts on many bikes (where it is on the right or both sides) is pretty easily damaged and most bikers would take the opportunity to replace it with an after market one, rather than the OEM one

 LastBoyScout 26 Apr 2021
In reply to Dax H:

Many years ago, when we were on holiday on a farm, the farmer had a trail bike for getting around the fields - had an 18" square of plywood bolted to the rear and his dog just jumped up and rode on that, like a pillion.

 Dax H 27 Apr 2021
In reply to LastBoyScout:

I see that a lot in the dales with quad bikes. 

 Toccata 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

I live within a few miles of a Peak 'loop' and from 6am Saturday to 9 pm Sunday there's usually the constant squeal of bikes hammering around, particularly leaving the village. Come Sunday night it's the sound of ambulances hoovering them up.  However this year it has seemed a little quieter even though there are plenty bikes around. There are now unmarked Police cars and bikes patrolling the common speeding stretches (they post video online) and I wonder if the message is getting through. However as a complete estimate I'd suggest cars are far more likely to speed through the main body of the village.

On a complete tangent I've had more near-misses on family walks with EVs travelling very quickly but silently: some noise is good.

 guffers_hump 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Martin Wood:

Or Lomas Cement Lorries.

 girlymonkey 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Toccata:

If EVs are going quickly then there is noise because you can't get rid of road noise! I presume the problem is they are drowned out by the noisier vehicles, so once we deal with those then you will hear the EVs fine and enjoy a more peaceful walk too!

Although, I guess a good windy day could leave you unable to hear them over the wind noise, but I would also struggle to hear some ICE vehicles on windy days too. 

1
 mondite 27 Apr 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> If EVs are going quickly then there is noise because you can't get rid of road noise!

Yup. When cycling I dont really notice any difference in being able to hear a tesla or something coming up behind vs a standard petrol car (sports car or a baked bin tin exhaust not included here) once the road speed hits 40 or so. The road noise tends to drown out engine noise in most cases.

 yorkshireman 27 Apr 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> If EVs are going quickly then there is noise because you can't get rid of road noise!

Also, at speeds where there is no road noise (eg <25mph) I thought they were obliged to play an artificial sound. Plenty of times I've been passed by an EV in a car park emitting a weird artificial hum precisely for this reason.

 jkarran 27 Apr 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> If EVs are going quickly then there is noise because you can't get rid of road noise! I presume the problem is they are drowned out by the noisier vehicles, so once we deal with those then you will hear the EVs fine and enjoy a more peaceful walk too!

Even when they're not they're still nearly as loud as standard modern IC cars. Exhausts on runabout cars are near silent driven normally, wind noise is down across the board but tyres are still noisy whatever spins them. There's a piece of busy urban road I walk regularly, the surface must be poor, the noise is worse than elsewhere but I can't tell the difference between a Tesla and a 3-Series from the noise alone, it's all tyres.

jk

 Toccata 27 Apr 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

This is more specific to quiet areas and drivers going too fast for the roads. I've nothing against EVs it's just my experience that you hear ICEs long before EVs on winding lanes. I agree when cycling the total noise of EV is similar to ICE and I suspect on the narrow lanes the tyre noise is muffled by the hedge. I will also accept that I might be attuned to listening for ICE rather than tyre noise.

 girlymonkey 27 Apr 2021
In reply to yorkshireman:

I believe you don't actually have to have it emitting, but it has to be fitted. Whenever you switch the vehicle on, the sound is automatically enabled but there is an option to disable it. I doubt many do though as you would have to do it every single journey. Ours is not working, we believe due to the fitting of an after market reversing alert and front parking sensor, so it is going back to the dealership tomorrow to get those removed and hopefully reinstate the noise emitter. 

 Martin Wood 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

As an otherwise upstanding [cough] middle aged man (often in lycra) who lives just off the A6 near biker nirvana, I'm trying to buy one of these at the moment:  youtube.com/watch?v=cBPsGaVF-kk&. Apparently the noise the carbon cans make is 98db. We're all complex human beings, eh.

 nufkin 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Angrypenguin:

>  They are coming but are way behind electric cars still. 

I'm just waiting till there's one like Kaneda's machine in Akira

 Tigger 27 Apr 2021
In reply to cb294:

With the bikes being electric won't the power to range ratio be more linear? A 600cc petrol engined tuned for sport will b3 less efficient than one runed for cruising. However can't electric motors simply be flicked from eco to sport mode? Basically you can have a machine with both range and sports performace. Though truly Long range machines will simply be heavier due to larger batteries, like the american Brutus V9.

In reply to Hooo:

> Fair enough, you're obviously in a popular spot for people to go and thrash their bikes. And it probably is true that the majority of bikes in your area have come there specifically to do that, so they are particularly annoying. You have my sympathy, but it's still not the majority of motorcyclists nationally who are arseholes, it's just that all the motorcycling arseholes are converging on your neighborhood. All the more reason to set up a spot check and bust some of them. In terms of police time that should be a big win in terms of improving people's lives for minimum cost. 

Is anyone saying it's the majority of bikers. The OP suggested clamping down on noisy bikers not all bikers.

 Hooo 27 Apr 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

From the OP:

"Personally, I'd ban them from National Parks and have lower speed limits specifically for motorbikes. That might make such an anti social pastime less attractive to the gangs of middle aged men"

In reply to Hooo:

Fair enough although your reply was to Wintertree who wasn't being so general.

cb294 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Tigger:

That bike looks great, except for the price.....

As for switching electric engine characteristics, that is probably true, but for my tastes the engine can generally be a bit less powerful. I assume (maybe wrongly) that this will then also be lighter and more efficient. The way I ride I have little need for a 80kW engine, regardless of whether it is electric or IC.

CB

 Seymore Butt 27 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed Useralastairmac1:

How come no ones complained about the scooters used on Kalymnos yet.

Not as noisy  as motorbikes but just as annoying when used in the numbers when its busy over there.

I suppose its not that important when were going climbing.

Car hire cheaper (4 sharing), more comfortable and much quieter in my experience.


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