Looks like the Moderna mRNA vaccine for over 40s

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Removed User 12 Apr 2021

What do you reckon?

5
 MonkeyPuzzle 12 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Yes please?

In reply to Removed User:

Any vaccine would do me. Just heard on news all over 50s in UK offered vaccine, er... Not in NW Highlands we haven't, got another 1-3/4 weeks to wait. 

2
 jethro kiernan 13 Apr 2021
In reply to JJ Krammerhead III:

> Any vaccine would do me. Just heard on news all over 50s in UK offered vaccine, er... Not in NW Highlands we haven't, got another 1-3/4 weeks to wait. 

 

That’s because it’s being delivered by DHL 😂😂

 profitofdoom 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

> What do you reckon?

I reckon absolutely any vaccine for anyone at all is absolutely brilliant, and a major life saver

Thanks to all who developed them, and are administering them

2
 elsewhere 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Is it not more like Moderna mRNA vaccine for under 50s?

The over 50s will be getting a second* jab of either AZ/Oxford or Pfizer/Biontech and that will use up most of the supply of those vaccines.

*about 95% of over 50s have had first jab

Post edited at 17:54
Roadrunner6 13 Apr 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

> *about 95% of over 50s have had first jab

Is that true? Or been offered?

Uptake is better than here but only 78% of eligible staff in care homes have been vaccinated. That's worrying.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vacci...

The number of residents of older adult care homes who have been vaccinated with at least one dose was 277,062 at 4th April (94.1% of those eligible3 ). Over three quarters of eligible staff in older adult care homes have been vaccinated with at least one dose (363,984, 78.9%). •

As of 4 th April, 2,064,034 (92.0%) of the clinically extremely vulnerable (CEV) population have been vaccinated with at least one dose. This includes all CEV individuals, even if they were vaccinated as part of a higher priority cohort. Of those, 479,257 (23.2%) have received a 2nd dose. •

As of 4 th April, 5,989,911 (78.8%) of individuals aged 16 to 64 identified as being in an at risk group or an unpaid carer have been vaccinated with at least one dose. This includes individuals who may have been vaccinated as part of a higher priority cohort but does not include residents of younger adult care homes

Re OP: I'd go any. Had both pfizers and was happy with any of them. 

Post edited at 18:31
1
 elsewhere 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Is that true? Or been offered?

Possibly not strictly true but for practical purposes near enough true!

"And remember, there is no published data on the number of people offered jabs, as opposed to those who have actually been vaccinated. However, NHS England has made clear that across the nine groups, 95% have actually had their first doses - that is an average, with take-up rates varying in different groups."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56729897

In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Uptake is better than here but only 78% of eligible staff in care homes have been vaccinated

I'd look at how many have actually had covid...

 NathanP 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

100% have been offered but I suppose that depends on how fussy you are on what constitutes 'been offered'. Anybody over 50 could have booked a vaccine slot online or via call-centres for a few weeks, letters were sent to most people (I'd be amazed of some weren't missed) but I don't suppose Matt Hancock has personally been round to many people's homes to invite them.

>95% actual uptake has been widely reported.

Roadrunner6 13 Apr 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > Uptake is better than here but only 78% of eligible staff in care homes have been vaccinated

> I'd look at how many have actually had covid...

What does that mean?

Roadrunner6 13 Apr 2021
In reply to NathanP:

I'd be amazed if its 95% just off the NHS data linked above.

1
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> What does that mean?

It means that I suspect a lot of care workers have had covid, and therefore think (against advice) that they don't need the vaccine, having natural immunity.

I would also look at the uptake amongst NHS staff in general, which seems to be lower than the general population. This might reflect the demographics of NHS staff, and vaccine scepticism in some of those demographics. Care staff demographics are likely to be similar.

 elsewhere 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

"More than 96% of people aged 70 years and over have been vaccinated in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland."

That's only vaccinations up to 20th March. In the three weeks since then there has been significant progress.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/con...

 wintertree 13 Apr 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

I just read through that ONS report.  Jaw on the floor.  It's just astounding.  

 NathanP 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Ok. 94%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833

Post edited at 21:24
Roadrunner6 13 Apr 2021
In reply to NathanP:

Well in the ONS data, it doesn't contradict the link I showed as it's reporting different data, but the ONS data shows around 65-70% of 50-59 year olds are vaccinated.

Maybe it's just a date issue. 

The over 70s data is incredible. I'm pretty amazed they've managed that uptake, more than handling the logistics tbh.

Post edited at 21:42
 elsewhere 13 Apr 2021
In reply to wintertree:

> I just read through that ONS report.  Jaw on the floor.  It's just astounding.  

😁😁😁

 Dr.S at work 13 Apr 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

If we get up to 90% or so of all adults vaccinated it will be an amazing feat

 CurlyStevo 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Not for some time I think the entire UK is only due to get 500k moderna doses in April

 Wil Treasure 13 Apr 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> It means that I suspect a lot of care workers have had covid, and therefore think (against advice) that they don't need the vaccine, having natural immunity.

I think this will certainly be true for some, but in my experience it is likely that a more general vaccine skepticism is common. I worked in a care home during the lockdown last year, the level of belief in various conspiracy theories was quite shocking to me (not all Covid related) as well as the number of workers who had very strongly felt superstitions. It wouldn't surprise me at all that many of the people I worked with would be wary of vaccines.

 Misha 14 Apr 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

That’s great. Especially as the data is to 20 March and since then there have been almost 5m more first doses, mostly in the 50+ cohort, so those numbers should look a lot better now. 

Impressive number of 25-49 year olds as well. Nowhere near here immunity but a good start. 

Over 70s are in a sweet spot I suspect - vulnerable enough to really want to get it and still mobile enough to be able to travel to the vaccination centre / clinic by car or other means. However there isn’t that much between their rate and those of older groups. 

My other takeaway is that whilst vaccine hesitancy is skewed by demographics (age, ethnicity, religion), the vast majority of all demographics seem happy enough to take it. 94% overall. Lowest seems to be among black people at about 78%, which is still not bad though not quite herd immunity and this has increased significantly from the previous survey, which suggests it might increase further.

I’d say countries like France will be way below these numbers, though I’ve read that vaccine hesitancy there is also reducing. I think there’s an element of peer pressure (or perhaps peer example) involved here. Someone might be hesitant but when they hear about increasing numbers of colleagues, friends and family getting vaccinated they may well change their mind eventually. That’s why I think it’s important for people who’ve had it to mention in passing that they’ve had it.

Post edited at 00:39
Roadrunner6 14 Apr 2021
In reply to Misha:

Here we've seen vaccine hesitancy fall in all major groups but republican males. The military have seen 53-66% uptake or something. And yeah it seems colleagues and acquaintances getting vaccinated has been key. So basically spread the news you get it but don't get into anti vax arguments because it won't work. 

My school, pretty educated liberal school in Mass has seen 90% uptake, which seems good but we'll be about as Good as it gets, so if we're at 90 most will be far lower. I've a friend who's a science teacher who won't get it because he's concerned about the efficacy. I've no idea why that's an argument not to vaccinate.

 Dax H 14 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Damn, I'm 48 and had my first dose of the AZ 3 weeks ago. Maybe I should have waited rather than chance the 4 in 1 million clots (text from NHS gave me those stats that also goes on to say a 4 hour plus flight causes 167 in 1 million to clot)

I think I will "risk" my second dose when the time comes 

In reply to Dax H:

> Damn, I'm 48 and had my first dose of the AZ 3 weeks ago. Maybe I should have waited rather than chance the 4 in 1 million clots (text from NHS gave me those stats that also goes on to say a 4 hour plus flight causes 167 in 1 million to clot)

> I think I will "risk" my second dose when the time comes 

I'm just very glad to have been vaccinated (first dose of AZ about a mont ago) ffrom what I've seen of the harm possible from Covid I feel a lot safer now.

 Misha 14 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Military - interesting, can’t SD a lot of the time and they’re meant to follow orders so could Biden just order them to get it... the court cases would keep the lawyers busy for years 😂

But on a serious point, you’re spot on re the approach. No point getting into massive arguments. Perhaps point out the facts. But for a lot of hesitant people it will be peer example which will swing it. 

Post edited at 15:33
Roadrunner6 14 Apr 2021
In reply to Misha:

I don't think you can order anyone to take it until its no longer Emergency Use Authorization.

My wife's hospital have said that once it's fully authorized people should expect to find new jobs if they won't get vaccinated for the flu and covid. They politely told people to start finding new jobs now rather than be fired if they wish to remain unvaccinated.

 Misha 14 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Which might sound harsh but unless they’re medically exempt I think that’s fair enough in health and care settings.

In reply to Dax H:

> Damn, I'm 48 and had my first dose of the AZ 3 weeks ago. Maybe I should have waited rather than chance the 4 in 1 million clots (text from NHS gave me those stats that also goes on to say a 4 hour plus flight causes 167 in 1 million to clot)

I am noticing that the story on the odds is changing.    This story on the BBC says the Danes think it is 1 in 40,000 for a clot after AZ, almost an order of magnitude higher than what I've seen elsewhere.   It also seems to be almost all younger women so if we assume that is about 1/4 of the vaccinated population then if you are in that group the odds are probably about 1 in 10,000 (if the Danes are right with 1 in 40,000 for the vaccinated population as a whole) which is a lot more worrying than 2 or 3 in a million.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56744474

As an over 50 male I'm not worried about getting my second dose of AZ but I'm glad that my daughters will probably get something else.

1
 Si dH 15 Apr 2021
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

That is quite worrying. I think if the chance was as high as 1 in 40000 it would change the balance of risk for most people still left to be vaccinated. However the story is very unclear on where that number comes from. It says the Danes have only given 150000 people AZ jabs and had two people with clots. If the number is somehow derived from that data the I think it makes more sense for people to trust the data from bigger populations.

In reply to Si dH:

> That is quite worrying. I think if the chance was as high as 1 in 40000 it would change the balance of risk for most people still left to be vaccinated. However the story is very unclear on where that number comes from. It says the Danes have only given 150000 people AZ jabs and had two people with clots. If the number is somehow derived from that data the I think it makes more sense for people to trust the data from bigger populations.

I think there's a good chance the calculations based on the UK experience are optimistic because we started with the oldest and sickest.   If this is a problem for younger people it wouldn't show up in months where the UK wasn't vaccinating many younger people with AZ.  Also, vaccine related clotting may have been harder to recognise in a population where cardiovascular issues are common and at a time where the NHS was overloaded with Covid patients.

Post edited at 07:12
2
 NathanP 15 Apr 2021
In reply to Si dH:

> That is quite worrying. I think if the chance was as high as 1 in 40000 it would change the balance of risk for most people still left to be vaccinated. However the story is very unclear on where that number comes from. It says the Danes have only given 150000 people AZ jabs and had two people with clots. If the number is somehow derived from that data the I think it makes more sense for people to trust the data from bigger populations.

It is worrying but I'm really struggling to understand the conclusions drawn from those Danish numbers as reported in the BBC story. 150,000 doses and 2 cases of thrombosis = 1 in 40,000? One fatality - a woman aged 60 proves it is especially dangerous for young women? 

 jimtitt 15 Apr 2021
In reply to NathanP:

Err but that was just a roughly cobbled together piece from the BBC. The reported cases were from vaccinations performed at least 6 weeks ago and now they have researched the Danish and Norwiegen results plus the data from the EMA.

I expect the Danish health authorities have more reliable information than punters on UKC.

2
 fred99 15 Apr 2021
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

>...    This story on the BBC says the Danes think it is 1 in 40,000 for a clot after AZ,.....   It also seems to be almost all younger women.......

As these clots are also a possible side effect of "the pill", and almost all sufferers are younger women - who are the group most likely to be taking said "pill" - have any of these surveys actually checked what percentage of the sufferers are also on "the pill" ?

 neilh 15 Apr 2021
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

I suspect alot of young women have been vaccinated in the UK. My 2 daughters 21 and 24 have been- asthma. Lots of their teacher and NHS related friends have also been vaccinated.

Considering the number of people targeted for priority vaccination with prior health conditions and key occupations I bet there are some big numbers.

Put it this way its not going to be low thousands.

 Hutson 15 Apr 2021
In reply to fred99:

I did think that (and also think it's extremely crap that the side effects of the pill in general aren't taken more seriously) but apparently the type of blood clots caused by the pill (deep vein thrombosis) are different to the type of clots people have died from after the vaccine (cerebral venal sinous thrombosis) a vein in the brain with a much higher death rate.

Given the chances, I will still take whatever vaccine is offered to me as soon as I'm offered and have taken to occasionally doing my daily walk round clinics at the end of the day seeing if there's any surplus (if they've got an open vial and it needs an arm to go in this can sometimes be successful, and where I live has several clinics within walking distance).

 3 Names 15 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Well I'm 48, got my first Jab half an hour ago...Moderna

 fred99 15 Apr 2021
In reply to Hutson:

So why is it that most of the people affected by these blood clots are female and young ?

Seems like something that needs to be identified for the future of vaccines, even though it's a side effect for 1 in millions, which means that even for this demographic it appears to be safer than taking said "pill".

Roadrunner6 15 Apr 2021
In reply to fred99:

> So why is it that most of the people affected by these blood clots are female and young ?

> Seems like something that needs to be identified for the future of vaccines, even though it's a side effect for 1 in millions, which means that even for this demographic it appears to be safer than taking said "pill".

I think the type and location of the clot is what is the issue, not just purely that its a clot. (sorry saw Hutson addressed this)

There's still no causative link though, but due process should still be followed. 

But yeah many medicines contain significant risk. 

Post edited at 13:22
 Richard Horn 15 Apr 2021
In reply to 3 Names:

> Well I'm 48, got my first Jab half an hour ago...Moderna

I (early 40's) got my first AZ jab day before yesterday. 

 NathanP 15 Apr 2021
In reply to neilh:

My worry is that an over-reaction to these very low risks will reduce vaccine uptake or at least delay it in the EU at a time when they have 3,500 people per day dying of COVID. 

Roadrunner6 15 Apr 2021
In reply to NathanP:

> My worry is that an over-reaction to these very low risks will reduce vaccine uptake or at least delay it in the EU at a time when they have 3,500 people per day dying of COVID. 

Tbf a pause (J&J) isn't unusual when rolling out new medicines. Obviously it's far from ideal and covid almost certainly kills more than potential vaccine side affects but it should only be a small pause to look at data.

The argument is these vaccines were rushed out and now the argument is they are being too cautious.

I think they've got to be as transparent as possible so people can have confidence in their oversight.

Post edited at 14:03
 neilh 15 Apr 2021
In reply to NathanP:

Well the EU are now hitching onto the Pfizer ride for the future. Thats great, but the distribution of that vaccine is just more complicated.Single sourcing for most of the supply does not look a good idea.

I far prefer the Uk one which is to place bets on 4 different vaccine  manufacturing processes ( not just suppliers) to spread the risk of avoiding something going wrong. The best one being the normal vaccine manufacturing process which takes longer to ramp up. ( as per Guardian article from the other day).

 NathanP 15 Apr 2021
In reply to Roadrunner

> ... I think they've got to be as transparent as possible so people can have confidence in their oversight.

Yes, you are right. However damaging this might be, a cover up would be far worse. 

Roadrunner6 15 Apr 2021
In reply to neilh:

> Well the EU are now hitching onto the Pfizer ride for the future. Thats great, but the distribution of that vaccine is just more complicated.Single sourcing for most of the supply does not look a good idea.

> I far prefer the Uk one which is to place bets on 4 different vaccine  manufacturing processes ( not just suppliers) to spread the risk of avoiding something going wrong. The best one being the normal vaccine manufacturing process which takes longer to ramp up. ( as per Guardian article from the other day).

The J&J has been great for our homeless community. Get out, jab them, no need for a follow up. It's caused trouble reserving them for the homeless community but it's a good idea.

The more vaccines the better though. We just saw J&J throw away 15 million doses after a mistake and now a clot issue.

 jimtitt 15 Apr 2021
In reply to neilh:

> Well the EU are now hitching onto the Pfizer ride for the future. Thats great, but the distribution of that vaccine is just more complicated.Single sourcing for most of the supply does not look a good idea.

That's why the EU are also making Moderna, Curevac, Sanofi (two vaccines) and in talks about Sputnik as well as Janssen.

 neilh 15 Apr 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

Have you had your jab yet?

 Swig 15 Apr 2021
In reply to Removed User:

Yep, I had a Moderna vaccination in Sheffield today. I'm 45. But other people I know in the age group have had AZ today. 

 jimtitt 15 Apr 2021
In reply to neilh:

Yep, both doses.

 summo 15 Apr 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

> That's why the EU are also making Moderna, Curevac, Sanofi (two vaccines) and in talks about Sputnik as well as Janssen.

I think the eu and especially Germany need to decide which side of the moral or ethical fence they sit on regarding Russia; trade, vaccine, Gazprom etc... 

1
 jimtitt 15 Apr 2021
In reply to summo:

The UK funded Astra Zeneca with Trumps money.......

Anyway we've tried invading Russia a few times, this time we'll just make them economic slaves.

5
 Hutson 15 Apr 2021
In reply to fred99:

I don't know. Historically, clinical trials have been poor at addressing the biological differences between men and women when it comes to hormone fluctuations/the menstrual cycle and the different ways it interacts with various drugs. I don't know enough about this one to comment.

 summo 15 Apr 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

> Anyway we've tried invading Germany a few times, this time we'll just make them economic slaves.

Ftfy, Putin's viewpoint, if he controls the vaccine and energy supply.

 wercat 15 Apr 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

yes, but Russia attacked us as well

In reply to jimtitt:

> That's why the EU are also making Moderna, Curevac, Sanofi (two vaccines) and in talks about Sputnik as well as Janssen.

And a ton of AZ vaccine too.

In reply to neilh:

> Put it this way its not going to be low thousands.

No, but you are going to need fairly big numbers of young women getting vaccinated with AZ before an effect which is somewhere between 10,000:1 and 100,000:1 shows through.

I'm just saying we should be cautious about using the UK figures for doses vs reported problems as proof this is a one in several hundred thousand risk because they could be skewed by the order we vaccinated, the choice of vaccine for different groups (e.g. if health workers where we might find a significant number of younger females were disproportionately getting Pfizer) and the difficulty of finding small numbers of vaccine side effects in old people in the middle of a Covid crisis.

1

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