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Labour loony left gets dafter

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 kevin stephens 12 Nov 2020

Weeks before the Brexit chickens come home to roost and the true impact on jobs and the economy comes to light the left want Starmer to apologise to northern workers for proposing a second EU referendum! Even in the unlikely event I’m wrong and Brexit doesn’t turn out to be disastrous surely it would be better to wait until after the event?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54896340

5
 JimR 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

They really are suicidal lunatics as are the deranged right. It would make sense for the left wing of the tories and right wing of labour to unite and give a sensible middle ground. Lib Dem have lost the plot and hover in the zany stratosphere 

3
 Ian W 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

So "the left" want labour to now apologise - weren't Lavery (as party chair) and Trickett closely involved in policy development? Alongside what was (perceieved at least) to be the most left leaning leadership in ages? And they now want an apology by the new leadership for what looks to me to be their own mistakes?

Why cant these people just go away and let things progress? Are they really so desperate to have their faces in the newspapers?

3
 jkarran 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Anything to deflect from the Corbyn problem and the bloated 2019 manifesto I suppose.

As you say, the timing is mad. We're years out from an election but only weeks from what increasingly looks like either* a Conservative driven economic train wreck or, now more likely, the biggest unforced giveaway of sovereignty in living memory. They want to Labour apologise for not wholeheartedly supporting it... I despair, I really do.

*glossing over the disgrace that we still don't know what type of brexit disaster to prepare for

jk

Post edited at 10:40
5
 C Witter 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

I think you're misunderstanding the context, possibly due to feeling that 'loony left' is an adequate conceptual tool.

The Labour Party is extremely factional, and since the election there have been competing accounts of why Labour lost, with the political right of the party seeking to blame Corbyn and the progressive project he spearheaded. This news story is off the back of two people who were part of Corbyn's team authoring a report that, amongst many other things, argues Labour's Brexit position was a big part of that failure. There is, to be fair, good evidence that the LP Brexit position turned off many remainers and leavers alike - even though it is only part of the story. Given that Keir Starmer was Brexit Secretary, this critique is obviously very much targeted at him and at those who feel his value is his electability. They may have a point. The overall thrust of the report is that Starmer is concentrating too much on middle-class voters and Labour needs to focus its efforts on reconnecting with its working-class base. 

Of course, the newspapers have reduced this report - which is fairly mediocre to begin with - to a single polarising soundbite. And you've bitten. Well done.

23
 kevin stephens 12 Nov 2020
In reply to C Witter:

You’re missing a point that things have moved on and there’s a major chance that the views of those disenfranchised voters may be reset when their jobs are threatened by Brexit and they realise that Starmer was right on the second referendum 

3
 mondite 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> You’re missing a point that things have moved on

You seem to have ignored pretty much everything they have said. The key bit was "to a single polarising soundbite.".

8
 jkarran 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> You’re missing a point that things have moved on and there’s a major chance that the views of those disenfranchised voters may be reset when their jobs are threatened by Brexit and they realise that Starmer was right on the second referendum 

I doubt it, that's not how people work when they've been conned.

We find find a ways to keep believing the con and frankly we won't have to look far, the press is in this up to their necks, they'll stick with the brexit lie. The ruling party is in this up to their necks, fully radicalised and barely even aware they're peddling bullshit and dreams anymore. 17M people can't be wrong, they'll support each other in finding an alternative explanation for the catastrophe they chose.

The only question is, who carries the can: liberal remoaner traitors, immigrants, the Irish, covid, Brussels. Choices choices... We're fast approaching the moment our Versailles narrative finally crystallises.

Still it's worth Labour waiting to see what 'brexit' actually is, what the post brexit public mood really is, who they're trying to rebuild ties to, at what cost and and with what pretence.

jk

Post edited at 12:28
2
 Eric9Points 12 Nov 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Starmer isn't trying to appeal to middle class voters he's doing the exact opposite. He's bringing working class voters back to Labour. More working class voters voted Tory than Labour in December and the biggest reason for that was Corbyn and his culture. Polling shows that Starmer has achieved two things since he became leader, he has brought a lot of working class voters back to Labour as shown by a very large increase in support for the party in the red wall seats and he has repaired relations with the Jewish community.

Both successes are of course an anathema to the petulant left of the party.

5
 Eric9Points 12 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

This is just another round in the war that Momentum is waging against the new leadership of the party.

They're asking Starmer to apologise for his own performance on Brexit. They know there's absolutely no chance of him doing that but it gives the Corbynistas something else to complain about and keeps the grievance agenda alive.

It's nonsense too. Brexit supporters are coming back to Labour, Starmer's approach has been spot on and to raise the issue again would be incredibly damaging to the party.

..but they know that.

4
 mondite 12 Nov 2020
In reply to JimR:

> They really are suicidal lunatics as are the deranged right. It would make sense for the left wing of the tories and right wing of labour to unite and give a sensible middle ground.

The problem is those two factions are rather small.  The only way they can get power is via either Labour or the Conservatives party. 

 HansStuttgart 12 Nov 2020
In reply to mondite:

> The problem is those two factions are rather small.  The only way they can get power is via either Labour or the Conservatives party. 


convince 250k people to join the conservative party seems to be the way to power...

In reply to HansStuttgart:

> convince 250k people to join the conservative party seems to be the way to power...

Tory party membership is a lot more expensive than Labour. How else do you think the Tories were able to infiltrate Labour and get Corbyn elected as leader...?

3
 HansStuttgart 12 Nov 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

25 pound for a vote on the next prime minister? Seems reasonable

The left was perfectly capable of voting for Corbyn by itself

2
 Ciro 12 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian W:

> So "the left" want labour to now apologise - weren't Lavery (as party chair) and Trickett closely involved in policy development? Alongside what was (perceieved at least) to be the most left leaning leadership in ages? And they now want an apology by the new leadership for what looks to me to be their own mistakes?

Fairly sure the life long Eurosceptic leader of the labour party was not the driving force behind the push for a second referendum!

> Why cant these people just go away and let things progress? Are they really so desperate to have their faces in the newspapers?

A bit like how the right went away and let things progress when the members voted for a progressive left wing manifesto?

1
 Ciro 12 Nov 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Starmer's approach has been spot on and to raise the issue again would be incredibly damaging to the party.

> ..but they know that.

Not as damaging as actively colluding to lose an election, as many on the right did when Corbyn was in charge... And they must have known that.

9
 Eric9Points 12 Nov 2020
In reply to Ciro:

If you're referring to the innuendo in the "leaked report" there is more to come.

..and it's not going to go well for the Corbyn camp. Amazing how careless people can be with WhatsApp.

1
In reply to Ciro:

Stabbed in the back?

1
 C Witter 13 Nov 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

Tha LOLz. Next you'll be saying: "and I'm not sure why the hard-left won't give Starmer the credit he deserves for the sun rising this morning and gravity continuing to operate."

Post edited at 10:50
2
 wercat 13 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Corbyn hasn't apologised for being so vacuous in Remain campaigning that he might as well have campaigned for Leave.

I think Corbyn generally is unfairly maligned but for that Brexit neglect I think he has a case to answer and a lot of blame due.

 Ciro 13 Nov 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> If you're referring to the innuendo in the "leaked report" there is more to come.

> ..and it's not going to go well for the Corbyn camp. Amazing how careless people can be with WhatsApp.

I'm not aware of what more is to come, if you have information on that you're welcome to share it. 

Otherwise, would you like to comment on what is in the public domain instead of deflecting with baseless accusations?

1
 Eric9Points 13 Nov 2020
In reply to Ciro:

I read an article a couple of months ago I don't have a link back to it.

However I expect when the Forde[?] enquiry ends we'll learn a lot more.

 Cobra_Head 13 Nov 2020
In reply to mondite:

> You seem to have ignored pretty much everything they have said. The key bit was "to a single polarising soundbite.".


That's all people need now a days, no use trying to explain, no one is really bothered.

 kevin stephens 13 Nov 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

Come off it!

The link I posted in the OP wasn't a one line soundbite, but a lengthy article.  And the point about apologizing for wanting a second referendum is still valid 

 wbo2 13 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens: is this a distraction from the current antics of the loony right? 

 How do you feel about the departure of Cummings - you voted for hom effectively,  and now he's gone! 

 kevin stephens 13 Nov 2020
In reply to wbo2:

Er , it seems that you’re the one trying to distract from the issues 

1
 Cobra_Head 14 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Come off it!

> The link I posted in the OP wasn't a one line soundbite, but a lengthy article.  And the point about apologizing for wanting a second referendum is still valid 


But it isn't though is it?

People voted for £350m a day for the NHS, Brexit has already cost us more than we've paid into it since we joined, and are you seriously suggesting that people knew what they were voting for at teh time? Or that "this Brexit" was the one people wanted?

Labour policy was always very clear, no one wanted to listen or pay much attention to what was said, because the media were too busy painting Corbyn as someone who was sitting on the fence, loads of people simply joined in without any critical thinking.

Labour policy was, "we'll look at the deal, and ask the people if that's what they want", it's very simple and very clear. Choosing not to understand is an option many people decided was good enough for them, god knows why, probably for the same reason they believed Corbyn showed disrespect for dead soldiers, because he didn't bow low enough.

I was a fan of Corbyn, but people were far too easily diverted away by petty bullshit stories and falsehoods, it's broken my faith in peoples ability to think and we now have the shittest government, who look after there own and care little about truth honesty or integrity.

This is where we are :-

https://sophieehill.shinyapps.io/my-little-crony/

1
 climbingpixie 14 Nov 2020
In reply to Cobra_Head:

> Labour policy was, "we'll look at the deal, and ask the people if that's what they want", it's very simple and very clear. Choosing not to understand is an option many people decided was good enough for them, god knows why

It was clear if you took the time to read into it more deeply but I just don't think it was well communicated. I remember watching Corbyn in one of the debates and he couldn't articulate the justification for why he'd stay neutral in a second referendum. It was a question he was obviously going to be asked and it was a question he should've had an answer for but instead just came across as evasive and waffly. The reason I remember it so clearly is because I was desperately hoping for a Labour win, for Corbyn to engage with the questions (in contrast to the Boris bluster) and to deliver persuasive answers and I watched that debate and winced.

 payney1973 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

Id say the Covid situation has helped push the working class back to Labour rather than Starmers breathtaking political wizardry! And as far as repairing the relations with the Jewish community, he has just screwed that after allowing the rat Corbyn off the naughty step after a very short spell and after giving a lame excuse/apology.

3
 john arran 18 Nov 2020
In reply to payney1973:

It's a difficult balance. On the one hand, Starmer needs to make it clear that the party's association with anti-semitism is something he's taking seriously and not prepared to tolerate, and on the other hand he clearly wants Labour to be as inclusive a party as possible, which means not perpetuating divisions that will alienate a good portion of those on the left and make a Martyr out of Corbyn in the eyes of some traditional Labour supporters.

I think he'd get flak from various factions regardless of what he does, but on the whole I think he's getting the balance about right.

2
 payney1973 18 Nov 2020
In reply to john arran:

To be fair there couldnt be a better time to be Labour leader, this government have alienated what ever support they borrowed from the North. Im on the fence as to where i would vote but theres a clear distinction on how the governments reaction has been depending on the area of the country the pandemic was escalating. 

1
In reply to payney1973:

>  And as far as repairing the relations with the Jewish community, he has just screwed that after allowing the rat Corbyn off the naughty step after a very short spell and after giving a lame excuse/apology.

He's only been readmitted as a member of the Labour Party and is yet to have the whip restored. 

 Rob Parsons 18 Nov 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> He's only been readmitted as a member of the Labour Party and is yet to have the whip restored. 

As a serious question (and one not related to the immediate case): what does it mean for an MP to remain a member of his/her party, but to have the whip removed? I.e. what sanctions are implied by 'having the whip removed'?

In reply to Rob Parsons:

> As a serious question (and one not related to the immediate case): what does it mean for an MP to remain a member of his/her party, but to have the whip removed? I.e. what sanctions are implied by 'having the whip removed'?

I believe that even though they might be a member of the party, they won't be a recognised/authorised MP within that party. Which is why Corbyn is currently sitting as an independent.
Probably a bit more to it than that though...
 

In reply to FactorXXX:

> He's only been readmitted as a member of the Labour Party and is yet to have the whip restored. 

He's not been reinstated as as a Labour MP:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54986916

 Ian W 18 Nov 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> I believe that even though they might be a member of the party, they won't be a recognised/authorised MP within that party. Which is why Corbyn is currently sitting as an independent.

> Probably a bit more to it than that though...

Thats basically it. He isnt a labour MP and wont receive instructions on how to vote.

This explains it quite well.....

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/whip-party-what-withdrawn-mean-boris-johnson-tory-mps-no-deal-brexit-333501

In reply to Rob Parsons:

> As a serious question (and one not related to the immediate case): what does it mean for an MP to remain a member of his/her party, but to have the whip removed? I.e. what sanctions are implied by 'having the whip removed'?

It means that Starmer is ignoring the proper complaints process and has unlawfully politically interfered in the outcome of an antisemitism complaint contrary to the legal requirements of the EHRC report.

9
 Rob Parsons 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian W:

> Thats basically it. He isnt a labour MP and wont receive instructions on how to vote.

Not receiving instructions on how to vote is hardly a sanction, is it?

> This explains it quite well.....

I don't think it does explain it. Quoting: "It effectively means that an MP or peer is expelled from their party". But since being 'expelled from the party' versus 'having the whip removed' is exactly the distinction which I am trying to get clear, what does 'effectively' mean in that sentence?

Post edited at 11:50
In reply to Rob Parsons:

The proper disciplinary panel restored the party whip to Corbyn. Starmer has overruled the proper disciplinary process for political reasons.

For an MP there is no distinction between having the whip and being a party member. 

4
 Olaf Prot 18 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

"It [the report] argues that "we did not develop a narrative that threaded our policies together and told a story about what Labour would do in power."

Ah, the old "we didn't get our message across to voters" argument. No, the voters understood it all too well, and comprehensively rejected it.

1
 Ian W 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Anyone can be a member of the political organisation "The Labour Party" as long as you pay your membership and abide by the rules; To sit as an MP, you must have the whip. without that you cannot sit as a party mp. So effectively, they cannot fulfil their function as an MP, so Corbyn is currently an independent MP, and for example, if a snap election was called, could not stand in any constituency as a candidate on behalf of the labour party. So for me, it is wrong to say he has effectively been expelled if the whip has been removed, as he could support other labour candidates through campaigning etc. It would be a particularly odd situation, but could happen.

its still a bit of a mess, though.

 jkarran 18 Nov 2020
In reply to john arran:

> It's a difficult balance. On the one hand, Starmer needs to make it clear that the party's association with anti-semitism is something he's taking seriously and not prepared to tolerate, and on the other hand he clearly wants Labour to be as inclusive a party as possible, which means not perpetuating divisions that will alienate a good portion of those on the left and make a Martyr out of Corbyn in the eyes of some traditional Labour supporters.

He's got a couple of years to bang some heads together before he has to get them all back in the same room. As the decision is apparently 'kept under review' I presume that means putting some distance between himself and Corbyn while Corbyn either rehabilitates his image or self destructs in an echo chamber of denial, either way, better out than in while that happens.

> I think he'd get flak from various factions regardless of what he does, but on the whole I think he's getting the balance about right.

It's pretty uncompromising, Corbyn isn't exactly wrong (though daft as a brush for not either apologising or STFU), while he did mismanage a real antisemitism problem that failure was also weaponised against him. Still, it's a big mess that needs cleaning up before 2024, starting now and not messing about is probably best.

jk

In reply to cumbria mammoth:

'Starmer has overruled the proper disciplinary process for political reasons.'

What, so he can have a realistic go at winning elections? For shame!

4
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Thanks for this fine example of the shamefull hypocrisy of the Labour right.

1
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

Although I don't necessarily accept the 'Labour Right' tag, would you care to point out the hypocrisy?

1
 lorentz 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

Trot on, Trotski! What... You're scared of becoming the party in power in 2024?

Corbyn was restored to the party by the Momentum packed panel, but Starmer - caught between the rock and the hard place - has decided to go with the hard place and do what's best in terms of to restoring some electoral credibility to your party.

4
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

EHRC- Labour is found guilty of unlawful political interference in antisemitism complant disciplinary process. 

Labour right- This is shameful, Jeremy Corbyn must go. 

Starmer- Unlawful political interference in antisemitism complant disciplinary process.

Labour right- hooray, now he can have a realistic go at winning elections.

2
In reply to lorentz:

There's nothing credible about Starmer withdrawing the Labour whip from Corbyn. Its just another seat the Labour Party won't win at the next election. Starmer is just another puppet playing to a poorly attended gallery. 

By the way, I don't believe Corbyn, under no circumstances, is anti semitic, though he clearly despises Israel, yet again the Israeli propaganda machine is making mincemeat of political free speech in the UK. Its a pathetic manoeuvre by Starmer and shows what a shallow politician he is.

Edit. The reason the Jewish community have turned away from the Labour Party can be traced to Ed Milibands decision to whip Labour MPs to vote to recognise Palestine as a sovereign state. The rot set in at that point.

Post edited at 12:39
6
 lorentz 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

Yeah well... Unfortunately in life the losing side don't get to write the history.

Labour, sadly for us all, got served that position by a massive majority in the last election, thanks in no small part to one St. Jeremy, martyr of Corbyn.

Labour either stop squabbling and throwing their toys around and learn to play nicely with everyone to become a broader church again OR they become a political irrelevance leaving us ALL, regardless of leaning, with the current hideous single party politics of the day. Cheers yeah.

 Eric9Points 18 Nov 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Yes, Starmer had little choice really.

Corbyn made a non apology on his FB page yesterday before the disciplinary hearing. The non apology outraged many Jews, rightly so. All he needed to do was say the word "sorry" and the matter would have ended, but he didn't. Either he's just a bitter and twisted old man in a sulk or at worst, he's trying to sabotage the party's efforts to purge itself of racism. Either way, there's no way he could be allowed to remain as a Labour MP. That would have destroyed the trust that has been built between Labour and Jews over the last few months.

All he needs to do is to make a genuine and convincing apology to the people who suffered at the hands of racists while he was leader. All he needs to do. Why won't he do it?

Post edited at 13:00
 Eric9Points 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

> It means that Starmer is ignoring the proper complaints process and has unlawfully politically interfered in the outcome of an antisemitism complaint contrary to the legal requirements of the EHRC report.

As far as I'm aware the party leader can withdraw the whip. Can you quote a rule that stops him from doing so?

 Eric9Points 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

> There's nothing credible about Starmer withdrawing the Labour whip from Corbyn. Its just another seat the Labour Party won't win at the next election. Starmer is just another puppet playing to a poorly attended gallery. 

I'm afraid the opinion polls don't reflect your view.

> By the way, I don't believe Corbyn, under no circumstances, is anti semitic, though he clearly despises Israel, yet again the Israeli propaganda machine is making mincemeat of political free speech in the UK. Its a pathetic manoeuvre by Starmer and shows what a shallow politician he is.

Why hasn't Corbyn been able to say sorry to the Jews affected by anti semitism then?

1
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I'm afraid the opinion polls don't reflect your view.

Jeremy Corbyn won 65% of all votes cast in his constituency at the last election. If he stands as an independent at the next election I expect he will win. 

> Why hasn't Corbyn been able to say sorry to the Jews affected by anti semitism then?

He has. He apologised in December last year. He apologised the year before that.

6
 Eric9Points 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

Corbyn lost the party many seats, not just one.

Whatever he's said it has never been enough and always grudging, never sincere. Labour must cure itself of anti semitism and be seen to do so. At the moment he is part of the problem.

1
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Corbyn lost the party many seats, not just one.

The party lost a large number of seats because of its inability to come to terms with the Brexit vote. 

> Whatever he's said it has never been enough and always grudging, never sincere. Labour must cure itself of anti semitism and be seen to do so. At the moment he is part of the problem.

Sorry, I don't buy that. Hes been made a scapegoat. Corbyn is pretty useless at political leadership but I don't believe he's guilty of the accusations made against him. His support for Palestine and dislike of Israel have made him an easy target.

2
 ianstevens 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Olaf Prot:

> "It [the report] argues that "we did not develop a narrative that threaded our policies together and told a story about what Labour would do in power."

> Ah, the old "we didn't get our message across to voters" argument. No, the voters understood it all too well, and comprehensively rejected it.

I would disagree with this claim entirely. Loads of people didn't understand the labour Brexit plan, primarily because it spread over two sentences so the rags we call newspapers in the UK decided it was too complicated and pushed that line. People seemed unable to grasp that nationalising broadband meant taking ownership of a natural monopoly currently run by a private comp[any (OpenReach) which are subsidised to provide the network, not closing down all broadband providers and delivering state-derived services. I'm sure there are more examples of policies, but two will do for now. 

In reply to lorentz:

> Trot on, Trotski! What... You're scared of becoming the party in power in 2024?

More hypocrisy seeing as it was the Labour right who threw the 2017 election.

> Corbyn was restored to the party by the Momentum packed panel, but Starmer - caught between the rock and the hard place - has decided to go with the hard place and do what's best in terms of to restoring some electoral credibility to your party.

The NEC panel was hardly stacked in Corbyns favour. Panel members were Labour to Win backed (right wing) Gurinder Singh Josan, Momentum-backed Yasmine Dar (left wing), UNISON’s Wendy Nichols (right wing), the FBU’s Ian Murray (left wing) and ‘soft left’ councillor Alice Perry (centrist from the Ed Miliband faction of the party).

Starmer put himself between the rock and the hard place by taking the extraordinary political decision to suspend Jeremy Corbyn in the first place. He has taken political decisions contrary to the EHRC report at every step of the process. 

Post edited at 14:13
2
 ianstevens 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

> The party lost a large number of seats because of its inability to come to terms with the Brexit vote. 

> Sorry, I don't buy that. Hes been made a scapegoat. Corbyn is pretty useless at political leadership but I don't believe he's guilty of the accusations made against him. His support for Palestine and dislike of Israel have made him an easy target.

This entirely. The lack of understanding amongst the general public of the difference between criticising the behaviours of Israel as a state and being anti-semitic is phenomenal.

 mattmurphy 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

Regardless of whether the NEC is left or right, they’ve all but doomed labour to loosing the next general election.

As Corbyn remains a Labour Party member and an MP the public will see him as a labour MP.

The man is so toxic it’s going to have the same affect as it did last December, when previously lifelong labour voters go for the anyone but Corbyn approach.

1
In reply to Eric9Points:

> As far as I'm aware the party leader can withdraw the whip. Can you quote a rule that stops him from doing so?

Why has Starmer withdrawn the whip? If it has anything to do with a complaint of antisemitism (which of course it is) then it's illegal political interference and the EHRC should prosecute as per the unlawful act notice that they served on the party only a few weeks ago.

> Corbyn made a non apology on his FB page yesterday before the disciplinary hearing. The non apology outraged many Jews, rightly so. All he needed to do was say the word "sorry" and the matter would have ended, but he didn't. Either he's just a bitter and twisted old man in a sulk or at worst, he's trying to sabotage the party's efforts to purge itself of racism. Either way, there's no way he could be allowed to remain as a Labour MP. That would have destroyed the trust that has been built between Labour and Jews over the last few months.

> All he needs to do is to make a genuine and convincing apology to the people who suffered at the hands of racists while he was leader. All he needs to do. Why won't he do it?

Corbyn has nothing to apologise for. The EHRC report does not find Corbyn to have been guilty of any antisemitism and the examples of antisemitism it has found back up Corbyn's claims that the right of the party has the antisemitism problem which improvements initiated under Corbyn's leadership were beginning to clear up.

7
 lorentz 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

> More hypocrisy seeing as it was the Labour right who threw the 2017 election?

How's the view backwards through those rose-tinted, Jeremy-goggles?

🥀🥽

"You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it..."

2
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

> Why has Starmer withdrawn the whip? If it has anything to do with a complaint of antisemitism (which of course it is) then it's illegal political interference

a) It isn't really now.  It's to do with Corbyn not supporting the Labour party's position and causing political problems.  Something of course he has spent his entire career doing but is now more noticeable so politically it is not possible to ignore him any more.

b) This isn't illegal.  It's normal party management.

1
 Eric9Points 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

> Why has Starmer withdrawn the whip? If it has anything to do with a complaint of antisemitism (which of course it is) then it's illegal political interference and the EHRC should prosecute as per the unlawful act notice that they served on the party only a few weeks ago.

Here's what Starmer said about his decision. He did it because Corbyn has been undermining Labour's attempts to regain the trust of the Jewish community.

All Corbyn needs to say is "I'm sorry".

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1329017092964806656?s=19

Post edited at 14:33
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

'Corbyn has nothing to apologise for. ' Apart from losing an election by a record breaking margin. It happened on his watch. He ends his career in ignominy, failure and disgrace. Shame the rest of us will have to live with the consequences for a long time to come.

1
 Eric9Points 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

> Corbyn has nothing to apologise for. The EHRC report does not find Corbyn to have been guilty of any antisemitism and the examples of antisemitism it has found back up Corbyn's claims that the right of the party has the antisemitism problem which improvements initiated under Corbyn's leadership were beginning to clear up.

He needs to apologise not dealing with anti semitism effectively while he was in charge of the party. He also now needs to apologise for the incredibly tone deaf and offensive statement he made 35 minutes after Keir Starmer undertook to implement the EHRC report in full and show zero tolerance to racism.

He undoubtedly has the stink of AS hanging about him. Have a look at this video and ask yourself if you would feel comfortable about voting for him if you were a jew?

https://twitter.com/CorbynDoes/status/1327129370465607680?s=19

3
 mondite 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> All Corbyn needs to say is "I'm sorry".

Cool since he has done on multiple occasions.

5
 fred99 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian W:

> Thats basically it. He isnt a labour MP and wont receive instructions on how to vote.

Well he rarely obeyed instructions on how to vote before when he was a backbencher.

 GrahamD 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> He needs to apologise not dealing with anti semitism effectively while he was in charge of the party. He also now needs to apologise for the incredibly tone deaf and offensive statement he made 35 minutes after Keir Starmer undertook to implement the EHRC report in full and show zero tolerance to racism.

He needs to just f*ck off and let the Labour party establish itself as a credible alternative, or at least moderate the current government's excesses.

As it is the only thing we hear coming from labour is Corbyn.

3
 Harry Jarvis 18 Nov 2020
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

I think one of the depressing things about this whole sorry farrago is that if the left wanted a decent figurehead, they could hardly have chosen a worse candidate than Corbyn. If the left wants to be taken seriously, it needs someone younger, without Corbyn's baggage, who is not such an easy target for the right-wing press and who was not a serially disloyal backbencher. As it is, Corbyn is almost tailor-made to be shot down as being totally unsuited to high office. 

Post edited at 16:31
In reply to GrahamD:

> He needs to just f*ck off and let the Labour party establish itself as a credible alternative, or at least moderate the current government's excesses.

Give him credit for his resilience though.
He tried to f*ck up the Labour Party when he was a backbencher.
He finally managed to do that as the leader and is now trying to do it again as an independent.
Quite an achievement really.

 

2
 ScraggyGoat 18 Nov 2020

Not following the detail, I always thought it was odd, suspicious even that the Labour Party anti-semite row, flared up right when the Tory party were divided, and shambolic, and most needed Labour to be consumed by infighting, preventing labour landing repeated easy blows against May, Borris and his mates............

If Labour has been a den of anti-jewish nuts for a long time, as is suggested, why hasn't this been rumbling on in and out of the public domain since Tony Blair's time or before.

Just as a weak government needed, a weak opposition..............they got one.

Or am I just too old and jaded, and have to accept it was a f*ck-up rather than a conspiracy

Post edited at 17:05
 Rob Parsons 18 Nov 2020
In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Quite. And at exactly the same time as the right wing of the Parliamentary Labour Party declared an internal war on the leader (who had been democratically elected, whatever you might think of him), and tried to oust him by any means possible.

4
 jkarran 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

> Jeremy Corbyn won 65% of all votes cast in his constituency at the last election. If he stands as an independent at the next election I expect he will win.

Doesn't matter a jot, aside from brexit what do you think he'd vote with the Conservatives on? 

Jk

 Philb1950 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Rob Parsons:

He always voted against the whip throughout his career, so no change there. Before any talk of reinstating membership they should have first enacted on the EHRC report. Just when Starmer seemed to have it in hand, a massive retrograde step

2
In reply to jkarran:

> Doesn't matter a jot, aside from brexit what do you think he'd vote with the Conservatives on? 

> Jk

What do you think he will vote with Labour on? He's a protest politician and the point is he will probably deprive Labour of a seat which weakens their position.

2
 fred99 18 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

> Jeremy Corbyn won 65% of all votes cast in his constituency at the last election. If he stands as an independent at the next election I expect he will win. 

If Labour put up a monkey they'd get it elected - it's one of those constituencies that votes for the colour of the rosette, not whoever (or whatever) it's pinned on.

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