Is there a correlation between brands and littering?

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 TMM 27 Nov 2021

Interested to know what other people's experiences are of littering and brands.

I notice when I'm out that the packaging from some brands seems to get littered out of proportion to their sales.

Monster Energy and Red Bull seem to have a proportion of discarded packaging far beyond their sales compared to Coca Cola.

Has there been any research in this area? Would love to see some real data driven reporting that might force the brand owners to do something about engaging with their customers and taking some responsibility.

1
 Hooo 27 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

McDonald's customers seem to make a massive contribution to the litter I see. But I don't know if it's just because they are the biggest takeaway brand with distinctive packaging.

What I'd like to see is a unique barcode on all takeaway packaging. If the item is found as litter the shop that sold it gets fined. You can bet the shops would come up with some pretty smart ways to reduce littering if they had to pay for it.

 mrphilipoldham 27 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I tend to find most littered gear on crags is Wild Country.

1
 summo 27 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

You don't see much Fortnum & Mason or Harrods packaging on verges. 

1
 mountainbagger 27 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

> Monster Energy and Red Bull seem to have a proportion of discarded packaging far beyond their sales compared to Coca Cola.

Ironic that a drink purporting to give you energy should result in a lack of energy to dispose of it properly.

 Maggot 27 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I had my one and only tin of redbull at a motorway services one night to try and wake me up. It was effing disgusting.  Basically you must be a retard to drink the stuff, so you can't really expect them to know what bins are for.

25
 mondite 27 Nov 2021
In reply to mountainbagger:

> Ironic that a drink purporting to give you energy should result in a lack of energy to dispose of it properly.

Thats because they are elite athletes operating on the edge of human endurance and hence need to be efficient in how to apply their energy however boosted.

1
 mountainbagger 27 Nov 2021
In reply to Maggot:

> I had my one and only tin of redbull at a motorway services one night to try and wake me up. It was effing disgusting.  Basically you must be a retard to drink the stuff, so you can't really expect them to know what bins are for.

Same here. To be fair it definitely woke me up. I turned up the thrash metal and lobbed the empty can out the window whilst bombing along the fast lane of the motorway with a primal scream. My mum was unimpressed but I like to think relieved I was no longer drifting off.

1
In reply to TMM:

I was going to question the 'by volume sales' point. But then I looked at this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1194496/leading-carbonated-drink-brands...

Red Bull nowhere in the top ten. And yet, as you observe, I seem to see more Red Bull cans in remoter places. All those 'extreme athletes' chugging a Red Bull as they get uplifted in the bus back to the top of their gnarly black downhill run...?

In town? McD shit everywhere, including on benches no more than six feet from a bin. Probably proportionate to sales.

1
 felt 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I've cycled tens of thousands of miles on quiet country lanes in Hants, Devon and Cumbria and by far the most common things on the verges in all three counties are Red Bull cans and Costa coffee cups, with the counties lining up in that order from worst to least bad.

 summo 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I've a friend who is a journalist in Yorkshire, but could be a secret maths geek. He claims if you plot the frequency of McDs litter on verges, you'll be able to work out where the 'restaurants' are. 

 Fat Bumbly2 28 Nov 2021
In reply to felt:

McCrap is getting chased in the roadside litter charts by Costa as more drive throughs are opened.  Probably conformation bias, but McDonalds appear to have been the market leader for many years now.   (Agree Red Bull is unusually prevalent)

Once fag packets were a big one, and they are rarer now, and of course in a thread like this certain publications, now rarely seen often get a mention.

In reply to TMM:

The excessive littering may be because energy drinks are favoured by people with drug and alcohol problems.

https://www.uk-rehab.com/addiction/energy-drinks/the-link-between-energy-dr...

 Dax H 28 Nov 2021
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

And young people, seems a lot of kids "can't function" without the energy hit. 

3
 felt 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

Another thing worth mentioning is that for country lanes litter, February not April is the cruellest month. In summer much of the crap gets hidden by the tall grasses, bracken etc, and then the autumn leaf fall does a useful job of continuing to hide it. By the turn of the year most of the veg has really died down low and the leaves have been blown away, with February revealing the lanes' true punishment in all its muddy and bright foulness. Then April comes around once more and the cycle starts again.

 summo 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Dax H:

> And young people, seems a lot of kids "can't function" without the energy hit. 

Bizarrely they make and sell sugar free energy drinks. They become a cool thing to drink, regardless of their contents. 

 Rog Wilko 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

For a while I’ve been wondering if the advice on Red Bull cans reads something like “please dispose of can by throwing out of your car window”. 

 jimtitt 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

In Germany, Austria etc there's 25c deposit on a can.

OP TMM 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I wonder what discussion goes on within these companies? I know how much work large corporates put into managing and protecting their brands. Surely they must recognise that having your brand prominently on display as litter must do damage to brand equity.

I thought that a photographic project on social media that encourages people to shame brands by photographing these brands in beautiful locations would be a fascinating juxtaposition and shame them into some action.

 John Ww 28 Nov 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

Yep, the first time I saw people regularly going through the bins to collect drinks cans in my (now adopted) German home town I was quite shocked, until i found out what was going on, as I thought they were looking for food. What a brilliant idea - more recycling,  less litter, and fewer overflowing bins. Now what would really make sense is a 20c additional cost to every single McD, Costa etc. piece of packaging, refundable on return to one of their outlets, in order to either make people less likely to chuck it away in the first place, and/or provide another source of income for the existing litter-pickers/recyclers.

 felt 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

> I thought that a photographic project on social media that encourages people to shame brands by photographing these brands in beautiful locations would be a fascinating juxtaposition and shame them into some action.

Coke could source a bunch of used Pepsi cans, covertly hire a top ecoinstasnapper and make a crushing dirty ops move on their rival.

 wercat 28 Nov 2021
In reply to John Ww:

when I was a kid in the 1960s it was our age group looking for discarded Corona pop bottles to take to the sweet shop to get free pocket money on the refund!

win win

Post edited at 12:30
 gravy 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

Energy drinks (all brands, inc lucozade)

McDonalds

Coffee cups (all brands)

Water bottles (all brands)

If you're at an mtb place: jells (all brands)

If you're at youth football venue: sweet wrappers (all brands) and electrical tape

If you're in Sheffield scrote drinks cans (lager/cider) and wet wipes

If you're on a short walk near a road: dog-shit bags (used)

Some things are seasonal - the brand doesn't matter so much as the product.

2
 jimtitt 28 Nov 2021
In reply to John Ww:

Being tested in 10 McDonalds in Germany at the moment to get customer opinion on the reusable packaging, due to be rolled out throughout the country next year. €1 deposit.

Going to be a legal requirement in 2023 anyway.

In reply to wercat:

> when I was a kid in the 1960s it

Yeah, Corona bottles funded much of my summer holiday sweet eating...

 John Ww 28 Nov 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

Excellent!!

1
 Tringa 28 Nov 2021
In reply to John Ww:

> Yep, the first time I saw people regularly going through the bins to collect drinks cans in my (now adopted) German home town I was quite shocked, until i found out what was going on, as I thought they were looking for food. What a brilliant idea - more recycling,  less litter, and fewer overflowing bins. Now what would really make sense is a 20c additional cost to every single McD, Costa etc. piece of packaging, refundable on return to one of their outlets, in order to either make people less likely to chuck it away in the first place, and/or provide another source of income for the existing litter-pickers/recyclers.

About 10 years ago I was in the Netherlands and in a medium sized supermarket in a smallish town. The shop had a machine that crushed cans and gave a credit note based on weight. Seemed like a good idea which I think other countries operate too(Norway, I  think), but not here.

Yet again we appear to behind the curve.

Dave

In reply to summo:

> He claims if you plot the frequency of McDs litter on verges, you'll be able to work out where the 'restaurants' are. 

I remember using the 'accretion zone' technique when interrailing; we used to seek out McDs to have a McDump, as the loos were reliably clean... 

In reply to TMM:

> I wonder what discussion goes on within these companies? I know how much work large corporates put into managing and protecting their brands. Surely they must recognise that having your brand prominently on display as litter must do damage to brand equity.

I think the old maxim 'there's no such thing as bad publicity' holds true here unfortunately

 Timmd 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I started to think like that, that it seemed to be Tesco stuff and more budget brands of BBQ style food left behind, compared to M&S and Waitrose, when cycling about the Peak, but that could be less a correlation with 'certain kinds of people', and more to do with the lower cost meaning more people buying the cheaper products, meaning there's more likely to be littering people due to the bigger number of people buying them.

A thorough analysis needs to be carried out, before a snobbish perspective can be arrived at.

Post edited at 16:57
OrangeBob 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

Perła and nitrous oxide round my way.

And mattresses, which are probably handy after a Perła and nitrous oxide binge.

In reply to Timmd:

> it seemed to be Tesco stuff and more budget brands of BBQ style food left behind, compared to M&S and Waitrose

Again, more likely to be simple sales volumes, hence my first check of UK soft drinks sales.

 Timmd 28 Nov 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > it seemed to be Tesco stuff and more budget brands of BBQ style food left behind, compared to M&S and Waitrose

> Again, more likely to be simple sales volumes, hence my first check of UK soft drinks sales.

''but that could be less a correlation with 'certain kinds of people', and more to do with the lower cost meaning more people buying the cheaper products, meaning there's more likely to be littering people due to the bigger number of people buying them.''

You seem not to have read the rest of my post?

OP TMM 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Timmd:

> I started to think like that, that it seemed to be Tesco stuff and more budget brands of BBQ style food left behind, compared to M&S and Waitrose, when cycling about the Peak, but that could be less a correlation with 'certain kinds of people', and more to do with the lower cost meaning more people buying the cheaper products, meaning there's more likely to be littering people due to the bigger number of people buying them.

> A thorough analysis needs to be carried out, before a snobbish perspective can be arrived at.

I'm not sure I buy that.

It's anecdotal but I see far more energy drinks brands (Red Bull, Monster, Relentless and Lucozade) than Fanta, Lilt, Tango etc..

Branded energy drinks are not cheap. I am staggered by their price. 

Also finding lots of used energy gels which I find really depressing.

 petemeads 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Tringa:

Our Tesco had a big machine that took glass bottles and cans for recycling in exchange for a few Clubcard points. This was probably over 10 years ago (time seems to fly nowadays). A few regulars took to litterpicking to feed it, and would spend ages feeding their booty into the thing, when it was working, meaning queues could form. It has long gone, the council now gets our recycling for free but there is no incentive to pick up other peoples litter. And Covid worries stop ordinarily litter-conscious folks from picking stuff up in the street like they might once have done.

Yosemite had a 5 cent return value on cans back in the 70s, that seemed to work very well.

 ERNIESHACK 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

Unfortunately we are plagued in Scotland by the ubiquitous Buckfast bottles discarded by the bone idle and underage youths. 

But it really winds me up with the clowns leaving rubbish on the hills, not just Monster and Red Bull, but wet wipes. This seems to be almost with exception on the 'tourist' hills and the more challenging the mountain the cleaner it is.

 Sealwife 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

Generally Red Bull and Monster, but we don’t have a Costa or McDonalds here.

Locally there was an outbreak of Tennants cans in the ditches and verges in an 8km loop near my house.  My family picked up about half a wheelie bin of the damn things (crushed size).  Turn out at least another two groups of neighbours were picking them up as well, and they were being found spread along the roadside in other parishes nearby.  It continued throughout lockdown but appears to have stopped now.

In reply to Timmd:

> You seem not to have read the rest of my post?

Maybe the 'certain kinds of people' and lower cost was what distracted me...

 Fruit 28 Nov 2021
In reply to felt:

You didn’t mention gel wrappers, my pet hate to see while out cycling as you know they come from ‘our lot’.

 deepsoup 28 Nov 2021
In reply to petemeads:

>  It has long gone, the council now gets our recycling for free but there is no incentive to pick up other peoples litter.

You don't have to give them aluminium cans for free at least.  I don't remember ever seeing one of those machines, but do remember regularly passing an Alucan recycling truck in a pub car park on the way out of town.  Also quite often passing people who looked like they were probably homeless schlepping huge bags of cans out there to weigh in.

I can't remember when the truck went, haven't seen one in years and the pub no longer exists now either.  If anyone really wants to collect aluminium cans for cash* now though, you can still weigh them in at a scrap yard for (currently, I think) about 40-50p per kilo.

(*Bank transfer etc. - not actual cash.  Reputable scrappers no longer pay cash in an effort to deter metal theft.)

OP TMM 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Fruit:

> You didn’t mention gel wrappers, my pet hate to see while out cycling as you know they come from ‘our lot’.

I mentioned that in my last post. This is part of 'our' extended outdoors community behaving like entitled arses. I just cannot fathom people who seek out these beautiful places and are then happy to despoil them. The person who sneakily hides a sweet wrapper under a rock during their break, idiot who carries out their gels and then flings to the side of the trail or the mountain bikers digging up fragile soils and leaving their drinks cans on the ground. No better than the people who eat their McDonalds in layby and toss their crap out of the window. Entitled arseholes the lot of them. 

But what about the businesses who support and profit from this behaviour? What responsibility should they have for the use of the products and services they sell?

1
 Rog Wilko 28 Nov 2021
In reply to John Ww:

When I was a kid we used to wander around searching for Corona bottles which had a small deposit on them. Can’t  see many youngsters doing that today, I’m afraid.

1
 Rog Wilko 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I was on top of a small, little frequented peak in Scotland where there was one other person present. He started to peel an orange and dumped the peel on the ground. I said nothing but picked each piece up as he dropped it and put it in my rucsac. He solemnly and silently ate his orange, packed his sac and walked off. Neither of us spoke. I’ve often wondered if he remembers it as well as I do, and if it had any effect on his future behaviour.

 Rog Wilko 28 Nov 2021
In reply to petemeads:

I seem to remember coming across a machine at French supermarkets which took your empty 6* wine bottles and refubnded you the deposit, but it was a while ago.

OP TMM 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I had a chat with a guy on Latterbarrow about orange peel a couple of year back. My girls were toddlers at the time and we we having a little break on top. Another family arrived and they dug out some oranges. "What shall we do with the peel?" they shouted to dad. "Stick it in the heather" he told them. I didn't want to have a word in front of his kids but I did take him to one side and explained how long it takes for peel to biodegrade. He seemed to genuinely be unware and he took it well. Hopefully a less learnt. 

In reply to TMM:

How about all the discarded face masks

 Bottom Clinger 28 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

Not brands but perhaps due to the recent winds I’ve  never seen so many stupid f*cking balloons stuck in trees and hedges. I know it’s been done on here before, but Ban the F*ckers!  Those stupid bloody helium jobbies. 

 gravy 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

Apart from the litter there really should be a law against wasting helium on balloons (with a get out clause for squeaky voice demos).

 Fat Bumbly2 28 Nov 2021
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

I often, almost usually bring balloon litter back down with me. Pentlands and Ochils especially.

Was picnicking in the Pentlands - lazy Sunday afternoon, last Summer and a huge assembly of the feckers landed just behind us. Like something out of an Aldous Harding video. One of the numbers in the birthday had deflated and brought the lot down. Walked off with the buoyant survivors floating above us tied to my pack.

Helium is too useful to waste like this.

 CantClimbTom 29 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I saw the thread title and thought you were going to say something like "CCTV footage outside KFC showed people wearing TNF and Adidas were the most likely to litter"

OP TMM 29 Nov 2021
In reply to CantClimbTom:

> I saw the thread title and thought you were going to say something like "CCTV footage outside KFC showed people wearing TNF and Adidas were the most likely to litter"

Another area for possible, further research...

 B-team 29 Nov 2021
In reply to Tringa:

> About 10 years ago I was in the Netherlands and in a medium sized supermarket in a smallish town. The shop had a machine that crushed cans and gave a credit note based on weight. Seemed like a good idea which I think other countries operate too(Norway, I  think), but not here.

Here in Denmark too, and no doubt many other countries.

 GrahamD 29 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

When I had my first attempt a walking the Penine way back in the late 70s, the pervading litter was drinks can ring pulls.  By the time we got to Malham we were both carrying a metre long piece of string totally loaded with them.  Progress on that front,  at least.

 midgen 29 Nov 2021
In reply to John Ww:

One of several things that makes me shake my head since returning home to the UK after many years living in Germany. The system works so well you wonder why everyone doesn't do it. Then again, the Germans have a sense of community and civic responsibility that seems notably absent much of the time here.

Can't say it's entirely comfortable from a moral standpoint sitting having a beer by the river and having your empties collected by the local homeless to feed themselves....but it's one of those pragmatic solutions that works for everyone, pretty much. There are never empty bottles littering the place. If you do leave one (next to/or on top of a bin) it'll be collected in minutes. By clearing up empties at a busy outdoor spot you can get enough money for a meal in half an hour or so. Far less plastic as well, as most bottles are glass.

 yorkshire_lad2 29 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

If correlating brands and littering, can we have a geographic element in the equation (e.g. inner city cf national park).

I have been on one of the Yorkshire Three Peaks the day after a sponsored event, and followed (and picked up) a trail of many plastic water bottles which had been given out for free to entrants and had the name of the charity printed on them (don't get me started on the irony).  Would that quality as a correlation between brand and littering I think it is not the original point of the OP's use of brand (e.g. Reg Bull) but the name of a charity might be considered equivalent to a brand (similar to McD's)

I usually carry a bag to litter pick on my various walks: over the years I have collected, amonst the usual empties of Red Bull:

  • discarded full nappies
  • discarded used tampon (neatly wrapped)
  • a candy g-string
  • discarded condom
  • £5 note (went into church collecting tin)
  • unopened six-pack of Twix
1
OP TMM 29 Nov 2021
In reply to yorkshire_lad2:

Your litter sounds grim!

I'll stick to my cans of Relentless and Red Bull and you can have your nappies and tampons.

 jimtitt 29 Nov 2021
In reply to midgen:

> One of several things that makes me shake my head since returning home to the UK after many years living in Germany. The system works so well you wonder why everyone doesn't do it. Then again, the Germans have a sense of community and civic responsibility that seems notably absent much of the time here.

> Can't say it's entirely comfortable from a moral standpoint sitting having a beer by the river and having your empties collected by the local homeless to feed themselves....but it's one of those pragmatic solutions that works for everyone, pretty much. There are never empty bottles littering the place. If you do leave one (next to/or on top of a bin) it'll be collected in minutes. By clearing up empties at a busy outdoor spot you can get enough money for a meal in half an hour or so. Far less plastic as well, as most bottles are glass.

Three empties gets you a half-litre bottle of Bavarian-brewed beer, probably more a priority than a meal!

 compost 29 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

I think we should stop referring to people like Coca Cola as drinks manufacturers and call them what they actually are - manufacturers of single-use plastic and aluminium (with a profitable sideline in fizzy sugar syrup)

 ChrisBrooke 29 Nov 2021
In reply to yorkshire_lad2:

Given the following:

> discarded full nappies

> discarded used tampon (neatly wrapped)

> a candy g-string

> discarded condom

The

> unopened six-pack of Twix

Must have shone like a beautiful gold nugget in a prospector's pan!

 nniff 29 Nov 2021
In reply to TMM:

We have a big litter-picking thing going on locally.  We pick it up, the councils provide purple bin bags and collect it from the roadside.  We stopped counting after 1,000 bags had been passed comfortably.

It's referred to as 'branded litter' - Red Bull, costa, KFC, MacD, coke are the main culprits


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