UKH

Meant to be off to Switzerland next week for a week, not looking great over there for Covid-19, hmmm what to do....

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Go but don’t come back? 

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

It has stopped me booking a summer holiday abroad.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I’ve got a couple of things booked for later in the year - Alsace and Croatia - but I’m not at all confident that we’ll get to go there (alternatively if it’ll be responsible to do so)

No idea what to suggest. On the one hand the risk is still objectively low but on the other the 1918 flu pandemic , and the Chinese (apparent) success in containing this one, indicates that uncontrolled travel is a bad idea public health-wise.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

You can catch it in the UK too now apparently, maybe a risk to stay here too....

In reply to Northern Star:

The thing is being ill at home, is rather different to being ill stuck overseas.  See how things develop.  Looking as if cases in Korea and Italy and possibly even Iran may have peaked, so possibly will burn out??

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I have a France trip in June and Majorca in August. By then I fully expect all countries to be infected so see no need to worry about whether it's safe to go.

As long as I am well, I expect to travel, (unless for some reason govt's start banning air travel, can't see that happening though)

"yes" as much for the risk of cancellation, general uncertainty and risk of being trapped as for the risk of actually becoming ill (which is probably just as likely when comparing "going about my usual business" with "travelling to a low risk area").

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Why not? No different to staying at home, unless you are going to live off your prepper stash and avoid leaving your venilated bunker until everbody else has died.

That said, I have cancelled a trip to Shanghai. The infection risk there still is higher than in Europe, and it would have been pointless anyway as the uni has cancelled all seminars.

CB

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

We are off to Madeira next Wednesday, possibly. Real catch 22 position to be in, neither of us are that keen on traveling now but with 10 day holiday paid for, flights and parking as well (and my first trip away for couple of years) we don't want to lose a shed load of money nor miss out on some sunshine.

Until such time as government stops the travel there, I doubt our insurance would kick in either. Already a stressful lead up to the break and anything could happen in the week.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

This is a question I have been pondering on. I'm supposed to go to Barcelona in a couple of weeks for work, only for 24 to 48 hours but quite important for me to get there.

I don't fancy being cooped up in airports or on planes at the moment so I'm considering going on my motorbike. 

Set off Friday after work, get to Barcelona on Sunday late afternoon. Do my thing with them on Monday and possibly Tuesday then 2 days to get home again. 

If I set off Tuesday morning I will be home Wednesday night or set off Wednesday I'm home Thursday. I'm just not sure I can take the extra time out at the moment. 

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Keeping a close eye on Pakistan. I've got 2 trips out there this year and it shares a border with China. There's not a lot of cross movement between the two though so I'm hoping it holds off. 

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I was supposed to be going to a conference at the end of April in Rome but had an email this morning saying it had been postponed till the autumn because of the virus. But I'm also supposed to be teaching near Padua in early April & the latest is that the 'summer school' is still going ahead although elsewhere I've read that the university itself (city centre) is closed so so far I've not done much preparation as I suspect it'll be cancelled.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I'm supposed to be travelling to Granada on Saturday for a conference next week. I am planning on going, assuming that the conference isn't cancelled and the risk factor in Spain doesn't get upgraded (in which case, the university won't insure us).  The conference is still going ahead at the moment, but I am half expecting that it will be cancelled because several of the key note speakers have pulled out. On the positive side, it is a conference about infectious diseases so a higher than usual proportion of the delegates will wash their hands regularly!

More generally, I plan to go ahead with travel that I already have booked (including a holiday at the end of March, and some workshops) unless the events are cancelled or the risk increases.  However, I probably won't book anything else we have a clearer picture of how things are developing.

In reply to cb294:

The infection risk in Shanghai and just about every other Chinese province is actually much lower now than many European countries,  e.g Shanghai currently has a grand total of 37 patients in treatment (most of these were infected weeks ago) and this is one of China's worse hit provinces, most Chinese provinces have seen 0 or very close to 0 new cases in the last 10 days 2 weeks.  China is now getting just over 100 cases a day total, nearly all of which are in Hubei, outside of Hubei, China is probably the safest place in the world to be right now.

In reply to Northern Star:

Risk of catching it in Switzerland is currently placed at "Moderate" with 100 infections and expected to rise, 2 hours on an aeroplane and 2 on a train is an exposure that i wouldn't get anywhere at home, guess the main worry is getting there, then there being a marked increase leading to quarantining people coming back from Geneva etc. its worst case but a real possibility.

In reply to climbercool:

Good point, but it would still be pointless to travel if I can't do the job.

CB

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

No plans to go abroad this year, so it won't affect me in this way. 

But years ago I had a serious injury abroad and being in hospital in a foreign country where very little English was being spoken was not a nice experience, so I guess it depends how confident you are that you won't be seriously or critically ill if you (or someone you are with) catches it, and also the quality of the health system in the country you are traveling to.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Like everyone, we've got plans at various levels of firmness to visit friends up and down the country and we'll review those as we go.

We've got a family holiday to Portugal in August, booked last year. At the moment, we've no plans to cancel - I'm hoping it will all be over by then.

I'd not got round to booking the travel insurance, but have done it now before anyone starts actively preventing travel and we fall foul of any of the non-payment clauses if we have to claim for a cancelled holiday.

As it is, we've paid for the flights and they're non-refundable, although if BA cancel the flights themselves, I expect to be refunded. We've currently paid 1/2 the cost of the accommodation, with the balance still due, and can cancel that up to a couple of weeks before we go without penalty.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

A good question. I have not put much thought into it yet. 

As mentioned elsewhere on the forums, I was in Tenerife last week (21 Feb to 1 March), on the opposite side of the island to the lock-down hotel with the case(s) of COVID-19. 
There was no hassle at all flying back and no airport chaos. 
Also as mentioned elsewhere, I was due to visit a customer in England this week but their CEO decided to postpone me for at least two weeks as it was an unjustifiable risk (one of my colleagues felt it was her duty to let them know I'd been in Tenerife). 
I should have some more work travel coming up soon in England, to customers that don't know I've been to Tenerife, but regardless of that fact, I wonder if the general feeling is soon going to be "don't have non-essential external visitors on site" and we'll see more of this sort of thing. 

Regarding wider travel, I am booked onto an internal company training thing in Germany in May. I haven't booked any of the travel logistics. We'll see how things pan out. Company policy currently is to only travel for "business-critical" stuff, and internal training is not business-critical. 
Also in May, a trip to Florence for work. I can see this being cancelled. I just give a couple of short presentations to a class of international graduate employees who are supposed to be starting there around now (or already there) on a 4 month course. I have not heard whether that has been cancelled or not. 

And personally I have flights booked for a trip to Indonesia in August. I think my mother and sister have booked an AirBnB in Bali but I've only booked my own flight, so far. 
Am I naive in thinking that if I actually can't go (via flight cancellation and a grounded fleet), I'll at least be refunded the flight?
I am taking no action about any of these things right now. 

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Seems very likely that the price of travel insurance will go through the roof pretty soon.   They're going to need to charge a lot more money because the risks of an insured person needing expensive hospital treatment is going to be a lot higher.

In reply to colinakmc:

That is one of my concerns, i'm not really bothered if i get it, not having it would be preferable but the thought of bringing it back and infecting colleagues and family is something that i would like to avoid, the Swiss authorities have described it as a moderate risk of contracting it with the situation worsening.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

It's not the foreign place that would bother me but the travelling there and back in confined public transport with a plane full of people of whom it only takes one to have it and maybe everyone then gets it.

On a busy bus last week I had to sit next to someone and after a couple of minutes he started coughing and you can't help but think aw oh! 

In reply to Pefa:

Yes agreed, i'm happy being in resort when there, not a worry (apart from ski lifts) however sitting on a plane, traversing two airports and a two hour train ride does worry me as its a massively increased risk.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

That's a good point. I'm planning a Font trip in September with my wife and two small children. I'd been reticent about booking out of concern for the kids - but it seems like the risk for under 10s is incredibly low. I was hoping that AirBnB and ferry prices might start to plummet in the face of low demand but this hasn't seemed to happen yet. I was wondering about delaying booking to see if I could get a cheap deal but if insurance starts being denied or has massive premiums then maybe it's not worth it. The BMC advice was that they would pay out for trip cancellation if the FCO issued advice not to travel to a region. I think that advice is the only thing that would stop me from going.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Possibly, we have flights to Slovenia for next month - I'm going to hang back from booking anything else until we see how it develops,

Chris

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Surely the way to go for European holidays this year is to drive? Slight risk on the ferry though you could sit out on deck if you're paranoid, otherwise just keep away from people and wash your hands, don't pick your nose etc. Even better go through the tunnel, that way you sit in your own car.

Once there you camp in splendid isolation from everybody else all quarantined in their own tents, no sharing of anything. Just wash your hands after you've been to the toilet block.

Unless we're banned from travel I'll be heading down to France this Easter to climb and the Alps/Pyrennees or somesuch place this summer.

In reply to pec:

Summer isn’t a worry, next week in Switzerland by air and train is !

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Enough of all you folk with your exotic trips abroad!  I'm booked to go to BLOODY LUNDY in a month's time and am terrified I won't be able to get there.

Can always sit on top of the 'Old 'n' Buggered' on the way out then self isolate at the top of the light?  Eeeek.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

A pair of petzyl  nomates?

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I'm meant to be going to Wadi Rum three weeks on Friday. Unless there is unequivocal government advice not to go by then, I can se it being a very difficult decision for quite a few reasons.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Well what Corona virus hasn’t managed to achieve, bloody Flybe has - I’m now f*cked!

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I’ve been discussing this with a friend who is wondering what to do about an Everest Base Camp trek she has booked. She has booked the trek separately from her flights, and booked all her flights separately (I think three separate flights each way to Nepal).

To cut a long story short we reached a point where it seemed best to cancel and possibly end up £500 out of pocket. How we got there was by considering that it is not just about whether SHE gets ill overseas, or whether there is a risk of a single flight cancellation scuppering things, but rather, what the state of the EBC tour company might be (also airport ground crew etc en route).

It could easily end up being a lot of “skeleton crew” throughout a trip, as the “main” workers take time off to either self-isolate or to spend time with vulnerable and scared elderly loved ones. So your EBC tents and catering and guiding are being done by the second reserve team...

In reply to John Ww:

Sorry to hear it. I just saw the news about them. 

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/04/tropical-forests-losing...

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I was supposed to be off to Belfast this morning but Flybe have gone in to administration over night. 
 

I believe they were struggling anyway and were waiting on a 100 million pound bail out, the dip in sales due to coronavirus was the straw that broke the camels back. 

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Most of my colleagues have cancelled their holidays. I normally fly for business several three times a months and I cancelled everything, switching to videoconferencing whenever possible.

In reply to felt:

I was thinking of coronavirus reasons. Weighing carbon guilt against my wish to travel and climb is a separate issue 

In reply to Robert Durran:

Well done on a very polite and restrained reply. You'd have been quite justified to use more direct expletives I think!

In reply to WaterMonkey:

Thanks. last time I used direct expletives on here (in genuine heat of the moment anger at an outrageous accusation) I got banned and had to grovel at length to Alan James and promise not to do it again whatever the provocation in order to get the ban lifted. So now I'm always nice and restrained

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I'm off to San Diego next Tuesday.  Not concerned about the risk when I get there but, given they've just declared a state of emergency in California, I'm a little concerned about what awaits me at immigration when I arrive.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I know I can count on you to be polite, after that Jonathan Livingston Seagull biblical photo exchange, and your alpinist uncle connection. Apologies for mistaking the tenor of your post.

(Pity that not everyone is so nice! I always ignore them.)

In reply to Dave Garnett:

As i said above, it's not so much being somewhere that worries me, its the possibility of bringing it back afterwards or being forced into self isolation or snatched for quarantine on arrival back in the UK as things have escalated, which it looks like it is as now the Swiss army is currently in lock down confined to barracks due to a positive test.....

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/03/swiss-army-under-effective-quarantine-a...

For the sake of £120 i can move my flights to the summer as we will be that way again anyway.

In reply to felt:

No problems. And I certainly didn't mean to impl;y that you deserved expletives!

No recollection of any seagulls........

In reply to Robert Durran:

Shaquiya Sands? Then again, my bird IDing isn't all that it could be.

In reply to felt:

Ah yes!

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

It would be great if airplanes had this technology implemented https://www.ted.com/talks/raymond_wang_how_germs_travel_on_planes_and_how_w...

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

My daughter who works in the travel industry had a family of six decide to pull out of their Maldives holiday due to the fear of being cooped up with potential virus carriers in a plane. They simply? wrote off the cost......of £156,000!! Yes , I know......what do you get for that?

Incidentally, the massive travel industry trade show in Berlin was cancelled too.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

We left for Thailand 10 days ago. At first we were cancelling it as my partner's work offered to cover the costs. More because they need the staff to sort out the mess of all the factories in China being shutdown. Then they pulled out leaving us with nothing booked but flights and 2 days to sort the whole trip. So we just went.

Bangkok metro system was crazy. It was like something out of 28 days later. Had to go through various Coronavirus checkpoints, which appeared to be simply them taking the temperature of your dick with a infrared thermometer, then onto absolutely rammed tube trains where every single person was wearing a mask (except us). Various people in semi gas mask type things. But most in these fancy 3m branded ones. Got used to it now. Is anyone in the UK wearing masks?

In reply to snoop6060:

Saw loads of people wearing them in London.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Bloody hell !!

I just moved my flights and it cost me £200 and i was gutted at that !

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Yep they were each paying the equivalent of twice the average UK person's income for a week or so away! Not sure if they were oil rich or Russian oligarchs or criminals or just a hard working family!!

In reply to Bloodfire:

Never heard of the Karakoram Highway? My friends tell me they already have the virus in Gilgit-Baltistan. 

In reply to snoop6060:

I flew to South Korea late last week. Some (all?) of my friends thought I was mad / becoming unhinged. There were 39 passengers on the flight (I walked around the whole plane to count them at 2 AM) – 9 in business, 30 in economy. Heathrow was quiet. Seoul airport (Incheon) was very, very quiet, with everyone wearing a mask (as people do outside in the streets)

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Yes!

Stuck in my apartment in Saudi for 14 days because I've just come back from France. Government directive for anyone that's been to any of 14 countries at the top of the Covid-19 list.

In reply to steve taylor:

When did you get back? Currently in France trying to get back to the Kingdom but very uncertain we'll be let back into the country and afraid that if we're told to go to another "safe"country like Switzerland by the time the 14 days passes it will have spread there to the extent its now no longer deemed safe either. Relatively speaking at this point i'd be perfectly happy to get home and be housebound for 2 weeks. 

In reply to Frank4short:

Sunday night. They blocked travel from France (Germany, Spain) on Monday evening.   

They will ask you where you've been on arrival - if you're honest they'll send you home. If not, and you are caught, sar500,00 fine!

In reply to steve taylor:

Jordan is also blocking flights from those countries from Monday next week, and closing most land borders. I imagine the UK will join the list soon.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

It won't scare me away from travelling. But if ports and airports and so on are closed then obviously that can physically stop me from travelling.

In reply to henwardian:

Ity probably wouldn't scare me personally either, but there is also the issue of personal responsibility. In some ways I will be relieved if a difficult decision is taken out of my hands on whether to fly to Jordan in two weeks time.

In reply to Robert Durran:

This will also be better for those who had insurance policies taken and trips booked before January - if the Government bans travel there is a fair chance they may have at least some cover.

In reply to Frank4short:

What makes you think you'll have issues getting back in?

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

[reply to thread title] emphatically no, lack of cash.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I'm keeping my eyes open for discounted flights

In reply to Robert Durran:

Sort of how I see it is that I'll do whatever I want but follow guidelines as they are implemented. So I'll self-isolate for 14 days if it becomes necessary and I won't try and swim the channel if all the ferries are cancelled. But beyond that, I won't let the virus affect my daily life or holiday aspirations because my own grasp as to how much risk I might cause to others is almost by definition vastly inferior to the grasp of the experts who are informing policy. I'm not worried about the effect on me of the virus because I'm not old and I don't have preexisting conditions, so I'm not really at risk of serious complications.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Just arrived in Madeira via Bristol airport this morning. Interesting, I don't feel the virus threat has sunk in yet, we did see a single person with a mask (so who the hell has bought them all?), easyJet counters, check-ins all had hand cleaner available but no other retail outlets had anything. Coffee stalls, food, drink, shops you would think might make a token effort?

Generally people seemed to be carry on as normal, I hate to say this but the few "older generation" were tending to use personal gels, wash and not cough over everyone, but most groups of younger people seemed to be oblivious.

We shall see, the sun is shining and that will do for now, walking tomorrow.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

It's certainly going to stop me from sh1tting or washing my hands .

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

The biggest risk in travelling now is getting trapped abroad. My neighbour's Dad is trapped in Iran. He flew out recently without any problem, but as the virus has escalated over there so return flights have become harder and harder to get, and have now stopped completely..

It will be the same for Brits currently in Italy. As more countries go into lock down so the difficulty of getting home increases.

Could prove very expensive on hotel bills, let alone the increased risk of becoming infected.

If you have an overseas holiday booked, current advice is not to cancel it unless the FO advises against travel or the Airline stops flying there. I either of those cases you should get a refund, but if you cancel too soon you blow your chances of getting a refund.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I'm supposed to be working in Inverie Knoydart in a couple of weeks. Not at all confident it'll happen if travel restrictions come into place. Still, the work will be there awaiting for me at a later date.

In reply to Frank4short:

I've now been quarantined in a saudi hospital due to coming in from france.    No symptoms fortunately and might be allowed to leave in 24 hours if I test negative. 

I would just stay where you are for the moment.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Yes, I had to cancel travel plans this year. better safe than sorry

In reply to Dark-Cloud:  I’ve travelled to Cork in Ireland this week. Biggest worry has been Manchester Airport sharing Monday’s hour long short staffed lengthy security queue switchback with all the passengers for Emirates daily A380 flight to Dubai, no symptoms yet. Seriously wondering about trip to Alicante in a couple of weeks and in particular the risk of being marooned or quarantined when it’s time to come home?

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Just had to cancel planned (next) week climbing at Finale Ligure, instead staying extra week in Bonnieux. I suspect we may still have difficulties getting home from Nice. a lot can happen in 10 days with multiple exponential processes.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Supposed to be flying to Florida in two weeks and US has announced today they are banning all flights from Europe except from the UK. Suspect it won't be long till they close their borders to everyone except returning US citizens. Supposed to be going out to watch the baseball and the way things are heading that will be behind closed doors by then so banning UK flights might be doing me a favour as should make it easier to get my flights and hotels refunded.