/ How much do you give beggars?

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Rob Exile Ward 28 Nov 2019

Sitting in the window of a Pret today, there was a beggar sitting outside. Then a woman, maybe 30, was passing by, stopped, and gave him a £20 note.

I'm trying to get in the habit of carrying and giving change, but I wasn't thinking in terms of 20s; do I need to recalibrate my giving?

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Le Sapeur 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give them nothing directly. I do however donate to local charities who help feed and shelter homeless people.

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dread-i 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

>Then a woman, maybe 30, was passing by, stopped, and gave him a £20 note.

Giving works both ways.

It brightens up the day of the beggar. It also make the giver feel good. Perhaps the donation she gave, was not in relation to how deserving the beggar was, but in relation to how it made her feel.

In answer to your question, about a quid, if I have it.

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birdie num num 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give them a quid, but deduct forty pence for tax.

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LastBoyScout 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Nothing directly - too many of them are working for organised gangs and it's hard to tell the ones that aren't.

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Lesdavmor 28 Nov 2019
In reply to LastBoyScout:

We have 2 men who sit at both trolley parks in our local LIDL with their outheld cups. They embarass a lot of people to give them their trolley coin which can be 2 1 or 0.5 € Most people use the blue token from LIDL which has to be prominently displayed in order to avoid aggression

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tjdodd 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I have always taken the approach with charity giving of taking time to decide on what organisations I want to support and then doing so by direct debit.  I try to review this every so often and increase the number of organisations as my salary increases.  I then rarely donate to individuals, whether people on the street or friends wanting donations for some fundraising activity.

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Deleted bagger 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I'm very reluctant to give beggers anything. However I do call in at the Hope Kitchen in Oban regularly. I eat there and chat with several people who are down on their luck but trying to get their lives back on track. I leave a respectable donation. 

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Eric9Points 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give nothing to beggars in the UK. I do give to charities and food banks.

I used to live in Edinburgh city centre and was asked for money every time I left my house. I learned enough to understand that a significant number beg out of choice rather than necessity. Those who really required help invariably never asked for it.

If your conscience dictates, give to homeless shelters knowing your money will go towards providing a meal and a bed and not towards funding s heroin addiction.

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summo 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Usually a banana off a bunch I've just bought in the shops, or a pastry/sandwich type of thing. Never cash. 

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summo 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I used to live in Edinburgh city centre and was asked for money every time I left my house. 

When I lived down in Newhaven or in Glasgow it was always "got 20p for the bus mr". Probably a quid now. 

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DenzelLN 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Nothing unless they take apple pay!

Haven't carried cash for a couple of years now.

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Tom V 28 Nov 2019
In reply to DenzelLN:

Maybe that's a reason you should start carrying a bit of cash around again, then. 

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DenzelLN 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Tom V:

Maybe, i often feel a pang of guilt. If on the rare occasion i have any change i do tend to give to such folk.

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syv_k 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Nothing,  because a local homelessness charity went around in the small hours offering free beds for the night, and there were almost no takers- one of the reasons given was that the homeless person would lose their prime begging spot if they went away to bed.

I drop my spare change in the charity tin instead now. Best way to prevent people sleeping out all night I think. Sometimes what people want isn’t what they need.

Post edited at 19:23
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Tom V 28 Nov 2019
In reply to tjdodd:

I give cash quite happily to various charities  in the street/ outside the supermarket but it annoys me when collectors refuse cash because they are only there for a direct debit sign-up. 

At that point I explain that I already have three such commitments and name the recipients . If I thought their charity was genuinely worth my contributions I would listen to reasons about which of the established three I should scrap.

Post edited at 19:29
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profitofdoom 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> .........do I need to recalibrate my giving?

I don't give cash to beggars in the UK, why, because I've seen too many articles like this ("Should we give money to beggars?"):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37492659

Quotations from the article, "London-based homeless charity Thames Reach said handing over money to beggars "can have fatal consequences".... Its outreach teams estimate 80% of people begging in the capital do so to support a drug habit which is often an addiction to substances including crack cocaine and heroin.... Communications manager Mike Nicholas said: Most people begging are not individuals in temporary difficulties, but people who are dependent on a begging income.... almost certainly to fund a serious drug habit.... As an organisation that has worked with people on the street since 1984, we have seen many lives damaged by hard drugs and alcohol misuse."

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bruxist 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give whatever coins I have in my pocket. That usually amounts to less than £10 all told.

There's an element of judgment involved insofar as I'll give it to someone who looks to my eyes, for what that's worth, genuinely in need. It's none of my business what they need, or how they spend their money once I've given it to them.

I believe in giving directly as well as supporting charities - it's not an either/or choice.

A few years ago I met a guy begging who was emaciated, obviously embarrassed, and didn't speak English. I gave him all the change I had and he went straight into the supermarket and bought the first sandwich from the expensive lunch counter nearest the entrance and wolfed it down. He hanged himself in the night from a tree in the local park a couple of weeks later. He'd been trafficked.

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Pefa 28 Nov 2019
In reply to profitofdoom:

> I don't give cash to beggars in the UK, why, because I've seen too many articles like this ("Should we give money to beggars?"):

> Quotations from the article, "London-based homeless charity Thames Reach said handing over money to beggars "can have fatal consequences".... Its outreach teams estimate 80% of people begging in the capital do so to support a drug habit which is often an addiction to substances including crack cocaine and heroin.... Communications manager Mike Nicholas said: Most people begging are not individuals in temporary difficulties, but people who are dependent on a begging income.... almost certainly to fund a serious drug habit.... As an organisation that has worked with people on the street since 1984, we have seen many lives damaged by hard drugs and alcohol misuse."

If they need the drugs then it is to self medicate to escape from previous traumas and or because they have nothing or no one, which hurts my heart just to think about. So if they are not being helped and cared for by society then why deny them a means to escape their pain? 

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Deadeye 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give food mostly; or try to.

It turns out that there are two sorts of people begging.

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marsbar 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Pefa:

I choose not to give (indirectly) to drug dealers.  It's not a judgement on anyone using, but it's my choice.  I give food and I give to charities who do care for people.  I've also given my time when I've been able to.  

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marsbar 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I'd rather give food or warm clothes either directly or via charities and organisations.  

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Lusk 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Sod all.

Some have no shame near me outside the local Esso/Tescos, 'Got any change?' while drinking cans of Stella.
I've seen them cashing in at the tills, they're raking it in!

One time, a mate gave some 'beggar' money, then later on we saw him down the pub ordering a pint.  I have enough trouble funding my own drinking habits, nevermind other peoples'.

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daWalt 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Lusk:

> One time, a mate gave some 'beggar' money, then later on we saw him down the pub ordering a pint.  

Should they be denied even the most simple enjoyment they may find in their troubled state? 

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Rob Exile Ward 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

I imagine there as many different types of beggars as there are beggars.

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Deadeye 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I was distinguishing between those hungry and those after money.

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Name Changed 34 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Sitting in the window of a Pret today,  £20

Witch Pret?

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SenzuBean 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I used to give food, sometimes drinks to a young bearded guy on my way to work in Vancouver Canada. He always looked so, defeated. All he ever seemed to do was sit, stare straight down while covering his eyes with his hand. Once I paid for a good lunch for him. But I was also afraid (of what?) - so I didn't usually spend much time with him, and didn't probe much.
One day, he was gone, never to return. A part of me hopes that he was able to leave his life on the street. But another part of me knows this is not likely, and that I regret not giving him more - more time and more empathy - because these are what I feel he lacked the most, some kind of acknowledgement that he was a human.

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BnB 28 Nov 2019
In reply to SenzuBean:

I encourage everyone to watch this short film, which enjoys its online release this Saturday 30th at 5pm. Here is the trailer.

https://www.facebook.com/theirstorycambridge/videos/678647452607612/?v=678647452607612&external_log_id=250cdd5b10ff359387d9d235b25b33fa&q=their%20story%20trailer


It was made this summer by a budding documentary film-maker whose work I support. It hits the same nail on the head. These are human beings. You’ll also, having seen the film, never buy a street sleeper another sandwich.

If you enjoy the film, and yes it is uplifting despite the subject matter, then please share with your friends and help launch a new voice.

Post edited at 22:54
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mick taylor 28 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I’ve given to beggars knowing full well it was being spent on booze/drugs when I lived in Glasgow and Edinburgh.  These days I don’t give anything, but don’t have an opinion if folk do.

Colleagues have researched begging in Wigan.  Quite a proportion bus themselves in and have tenancies in neighbouring towns.  Many have tenancies in Wigan.  So, many of them masquerading as homeless are lying (some driven by poverty, some just plain lazy and greedy).  In Greater Manchester, the A Bed Every Night scheme tries to offer everyone a bed, but complex issues mean it doesn’t suit everyone - it’s often their decision* to stay homeless.

A great scheme in Wigan is:  you can give money to a fund that then helps people get a foot on the housing ladder, say help with furnishings.  They will also be given other support to try and address problems (counselling, debt management, employment skills etc).  Plenty success stories.

*not really a decision if your life is really messed up, I get that.

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ChrisBrooke 28 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

There's a chap outside the Aldi near me (S7) selling the Big Issue. He looks like he's taking care of himself as best he can, is polite and has no 'aggression' or other unpleasantness. Just seems like a chap down on his luck, doing what he can to get by, stoically standing quietly and pretty unobtrusively. Whenever I go to Aldi I have a little chat and buy him a bag of food - sandwiches, fruit, nuts, chewy bars etc. Toiletries if he needs them (toothpaste etc). No idea what it costs - maybe around £10 a go.... I've tried to think why I care in this case and not so many others, tying to 'interrogate' the psychological influences in this instance. I've not come up with much, beyond the following:

In our little area (suburban Sheffield)) you don't see homelessness or any of the unpleasantness associated with 'inner city' life. It's an affluent area and so this man stands out, and seems like an individual one could help without having to decide "well, why would I help him and not the three people next to him, or around the corner or over there?"  i.e. it seems like you could actually help this person without feeling guilt for not helping everyone else. 

I'm personally moved by his plight, thinking 'there but the grace of God etc'. It seems grotesque that I can go into the supermarket, buy whatever I want before going back to my house and family, while he's stood in the rain selling the Big Issue to get enough money for a night in a shelter. It costs me nothing to help this person out. He'll at least not be hungry today, even if the rest of his life is quite sh1t. 

This is in contrast to me ignoring or 'no, sorry pal...'ing every other homeless person I see. I believe there are psychological studies which confirm this effect: we give more to an individual, than to an individual and their brother, than to them and their family, than to a million starving people. It's a sort of failing of our moral intuition, that the bigger the scale of problem the less we care, and vice versa.

Anyway, just my musings.... 

Having just read your post, can you expand on why you shouldn't buy food for homeless people? I feel even worse now!!

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mick taylor 28 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

>  You’ll also, having seen the film, never buy a street sleeper another sandwich.

I’m mad busy over the weekend but keen to know why?  When  I see others doing it I think it appears condescending, my experience these days is they rarely need food, they often want money for booze/fags/drugs.  At least giving them the cash might stop them robbing, and there’s a part of me that says ‘I’d spend it on drugs if I was in that position’.

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captain paranoia 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I hate that I have become hardened to beggars.

I used to give some small silver coins to them, but I have stopped. I give money to groups providing food instead. There are some characters I have seen begging for more than ten years.

I know that I am still inconsistent, and that I am much more likely to be generous to someone who is not in a high traffic area, or actively begging.

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Bulls Crack 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I usually give a pound or so but , like you saw, a girl come out of an office in Manchester - she didn't look well off; just like 1000's of other folk around at lunchtime - a beggar asked her for some change and she stopped, looked in her purse and gave him £20 . I felt humbled in a way 

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BnB 29 Nov 2019
In reply to mick taylor:

It would only be fair to the film-maker to invite you to find out by watching over the weekend. Sorry to be a spoilsport 😊

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SenzuBean 29 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

> I encourage everyone to watch this short film, which enjoys its online release this Saturday 30th at 5pm. Here is the trailer.

> It was made this summer by a budding documentary film-maker whose work I support. It hits the same nail on the head. These are human beings. You’ll also, having seen the film, never buy a street sleeper another sandwich.

> If you enjoy the film, and yes it is uplifting despite the subject matter, then please share with your friends and help launch a new voice.

Interesting little film - I will keep an eye out for it.

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Tobes 29 Nov 2019
In reply to mick taylor:

> I’m mad busy over the weekend but keen to know why?  When  I see others doing it I think it appears condescending, my experience these days is they rarely need food, they often want money for booze/fags/drugs.  At least giving them the cash might stop them robbing, and there’s a part of me that says ‘I’d spend it on drugs if I was in that position’.

This really- 

and we’re mostly talking about users/addicts aren’t we. Up thread someone said they wouldn’t give to dealers (I think less likely to actually be begging themselves rather use a team but how would we know?) 

anyway as Mick points out - if your spare cash avoids the need for an addict to steal for drug money it is very much the lesser of two evils surely. 

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neilh 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give monthly to the Manchester based charity aimed at getting homeless people a bed then to try and help them. Seen them in action going round the streets at night speaking to the homeless and trying to sort out.  

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Pefa 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

If I have smackeroonies on me which I rarely do then I will give them minimum two quid up to a fiver,same for tin rattling.Though I am vehemently opposed to charity. 

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mick taylor 29 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

You are correct - I guessed your reply.  Will defo watch it.

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mick taylor 29 Nov 2019
In reply to neilh:

Good call.  I sign-post destitute refugees to similar (same?) charities, do a great job.  My guess tho is that they will never achieve Andy Burnhams target of ending homelessness, but they could get it down to a bare minimum.

I know of some cases where the  council has put people in hotels coz it’s cheaper than dealing with the aftermath of street homelessness, as well as being ‘better’ for the individual (or family in rare cases).

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Rigid Raider 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Nothing, ever, since my son aged about eight used his pocket money to buy a Mars bar and gave it to a bloke sitting opposite Manchester cathedral. The bloke snatched it without a word, jumped up and ran over to a blacked-out Ranger Rover, which had just pulled up and jumped inside. 

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Tom V 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Pefa:

To some degree I share your opposition to the principle of organised charity but I find it hard to understand what is wrong with supporting a cause like a local charitably run hospice which I see as the opposite end of the spectrum to vast money making engines like the RSPB.

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Tom V 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

That's bad. And to think that we all slag off BMW drivers.

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Rigid Raider 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I should also add to my "nothing" post above that recently in Twickenham I saw three or four guys begging quite aggressively in the street, several times because I walked up and down three times, then later in the day I saw that they had a camp set up in a small park beside the Thames where they were partying, roaring drunk and making a nuisance of themselves.

On another occasion sitting in the car behind the shops in Oxford Road, Manchester, I had plenty of time to watch discretely as a handful of Roma assembled from different directions and sat down on a wall to enjoy a chat and a fag break, some eating and drinking, before dispersing back to their begging locations where I saw them later looking miserable and abject. 

I know there are genuine cases of people who have slipped through the net but it's also a lifestyle choice for some.

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In reply to summo:

> Usually a banana off a bunch I've just bought in the shops, or a pastry/sandwich type of thing. Never cash. 

A banana or a Pastry?

Always good to let them choose....

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mick taylor 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

Colleague of mine did the rough sleeper count in Wigan last year.  Two:  a mother and son, sleeping in a tent in a nearby wood.  Offered support etc. but declined.  Yet there will have been 10 street beggars that afternoon.  There is a lot of homeless issues about, but provision is improving, almost adequate in some places.   

Big Issue distribute their vendors so as to spread them out and get maximum business, hence why you will see them outside Aldi in a middle class area.  Makes sense.  Street beggars know this, so when you see them in 'low volume areas' chances are this is planned.  And, I guess, a minority are totally disingenuous and not driven by poverty. Hard to tell which ones though, hence why places like Wigan encourage the public to only give to recognised support organisations. 

I wonder if we will ever reach a tipping point when so few people give to street beggars that is isn't worth their while so they give up?

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Ben_Climber 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Has anyone seen Ed Staffords series on sleeping rough?

Well worth a watch and opens your eyes to the situation. As it seems, food and shelter are readily available in the cities he visited (London, Manchester and Glasgow). He even put on weight whilst sleeping on the streets.

I certainly think giving to the charities is a better option. As the programme showed, a considerable amount of the cash given out on the streets is just spent on alcohol or drugs.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/60-days-on-the-streets/episode-guide

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mick taylor 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

A few of my folk put on weight when staying in night shelters !!  Its a mixture of generous public and supermarkets (and, to a lesser extent, traders/wholesalers) satisfying their eco consciousness and giving their waste to food banks etc. rather than chucking it. (personally, I wished they wouldn't over-stock their shelves with Peruvian asparagus).  

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MeMeMe 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

> Has anyone seen Ed Staffords series on sleeping rough?

I've not seen it but I'm always a bit dubious about this kind of thing. I think often people are on the streets because they failed to cope with their life circumstances, they are already not coping and being on the streets is just a further thing for them.

That's very different from some quite capable person living on the streets for a TV programme.

Anyway, to answer the OP. I give monthly to a homelessness charity and the odd quid or so to street beggars because although I don't know their circumstances the odd quid or two doesn't mean much to me and it might mean a lot to someone else.

It's hard to tell but I'm hoping the monthly giving is more effective that random money but any kind of systematic change needs to come from changes by government, it's an embarrassment that charities have to take up so much slack.

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Rigid Raider 29 Nov 2019
In reply to MeMeMe:

....and thus it has always been, or during the last few decades at least as NGOs perform the role governments should be performing all  over the world and especially in Africa, which is a fashionable place in which to signal one's virtue as Paul Theroux puts it in Dark Star Safari. Governments meanwhile are full of people desperate to enrich themselves and their demanding families during their short tenure of office so giving money to po' folk isn't going to figure in their list of priorities. 

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PaulJepson 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I'm sure I heard something a while ago that giving the homeless money directly doesn't actually benefit them in terms of getting them off the streets etc. Something along the lines of 90p out of every £1 given to them is spent on addiction. 

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Timmd 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I give a pound or two to a women near where I shop if I happen to have the change when she's there. I get the impression she isn't homeless, which doesn't bother me because I've helped a friend out until recently while in a benefits trap - the Tory cuts have made it literally impossible for them to budget for everything*. I get the sense this woman doesn't feel good about begging. 

*Increasingly, women have been forced into survival sex of different kinds, whether sleeping with friends and people putting them up and giving them food, or 'the more conventional' selling themselves for money.

Post edited at 13:54
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Toerag 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

A beggar once stopped me just after I'd got money out a cashpoint in Liverpool in the late '90s, I said 'Sorry mate, I've nothing smaller than a twenty' to which he offered to give me change! So he got his £20 and gave me £18 back. :-/

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Deadeye 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

> I certainly think giving to the charities is a better option. As the programme showed, a considerable amount of the cash given out on the streets is just spent on alcohol or drugs.

And they waste the rest?

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Ben_Climber 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

Obviously not wasted. 

However would rather give any donations to a charity where I know 100% of it will be spent correctly and not on drugs or alcohol.

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marsbar 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Tobes:

I said indirectly. 

Much of the money given to beggars either gets taken off them by the modern day version of Fagan, or it gets spent on booze or drugs.  

I don't choose to give people money to drink themselves to an early grave or to fund dealers or criminal gangs.  

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PaulScramble 29 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I didn't have any change so I invited one into sainsburys express last month and told him to get what he wanted and put it on my card. But then I'm a brexit voting nasty right wing gammon. He got some doughnuts, milkshake and biscuits.

Post edited at 20:06
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profitofdoom 29 Nov 2019
In reply to PaulScramble:

> I invited one into sainsburys express last month and told him to get what he wanted and put it on my card....

Well done but are you sure he didn't slip a bottle of booze into the basket ha-ha JOKE

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CPH 30 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

don't do facebook;

do you know where I will be able to see this film...youtube?

thanks

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BnB 30 Nov 2019
In reply to CPH:

> don't do facebook;

> do you know where I will be able to see this film...youtube?

> thanks


I’ve confirmed with the director last night that it’s out at 5pm today. I’m sure there’s a YouTube release as well so I’ll ask for a link for you.

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CPH 30 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

Thank you

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Timmd 30 Nov 2019
In reply to PaulScramble:

> I didn't have any change so I invited one into sainsburys express last month and told him to get what he wanted and put it on my card. But then I'm a brexit voting nasty right wing gammon. He got some doughnuts, milkshake and biscuits.

One can't meaningfully apologise on behalf of others very easily, but I'm pretty dispirited by how vitriolic some Remainers can be. Nice one from a Remainer.

Post edited at 13:11
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Lusk 30 Nov 2019
In reply to Timmd:

You've missed the bit that our man is a hardcore Tory.
https://ourworldindata.org/homelessness-rise-england

Now, which party is it that have been in power since 2010?

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Deadeye 30 Nov 2019
In reply to PaulScramble:

> But then I'm a brexit voting nasty right wing gammon.

From your comments elsewhere it would certainly appear so

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Name Changed 34 30 Nov 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

20% of basic salary 20% VAT on  almost everything I spend 11% national insurance duty on fuel drink and tobacco  Council tax and parish rates  landfill tax insurance premium tax 

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BnB 30 Nov 2019
In reply to BnB:

> I encourage everyone to watch this short film, which enjoys its online release this Saturday 30th at 5pm. Here is the trailer.

> It was made this summer by a budding documentary film-maker whose work I support. It hits the same nail on the head. These are human beings. You’ll also, having seen the film, never buy a street sleeper another sandwich.

> If you enjoy the film, and yes it is uplifting despite the subject matter, then please share with your friends and help launch a new voice.

Here is the link to the film, now released.  Exciting news is the film and director were nominated yesterday for an award to naive film-makers, ie naive in the sense of having no formal training in film, whether film school or professionally. 

https://www.facebook.com/theirstorycambridge/videos/1451659071670227?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo

It is being released on Vimeo shortly for those that do not do FB. If you have any feedback for the director, positive or negative, then by all means pass to me and I’ll forward.

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CPH 01 Dec 2019
In reply to BnB:

Really enjoyed the film. Thought provoking as well.  Congratulations to the film maker.

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BnB 01 Dec 2019
In reply to CPH:

Glad to hear it and thanks for watching. I’ll pass that on.

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Deadeye 01 Dec 2019
In reply to BnB:

> I encourage everyone to watch this short film, which enjoys its online release this Saturday 30th at 5pm. Here is the trailer.

> It was made this summer by a budding documentary film-maker whose work I support. It hits the same nail on the head. These are human beings. You’ll also, having seen the film, never buy a street sleeper another sandwich.

> If you enjoy the film, and yes it is uplifting despite the subject matter, then please share with your friends and help launch a new voice.


Hi

I watched this yesterday.  I'm not sure the argument against sandwiches was particularly well made.  Nice film though.

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Timmd 01 Dec 2019
In reply to Lusk:

> You've missed the bit that our man is a hardcore Tory.https://ourworldindata.org/homelessness-rise-england

> Now, which party is it that have been in power since 2010?

Yes indeed. 

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yorkshire_lad2 02 Dec 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I am told by a friend who is a social worker in Newcastle (she works with vulnerable adults) that a lot of the street beggars are pimped out.
She will not give cash to them but will give food.
Works for me.
Give to a homeless charity (and hopefully they have more experience) and they add giftaid (notwithstanding the caveats/views on organised charities)

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La benya 02 Dec 2019
In reply to Pefa:

Against charity but for Funding someone’s self destructive attempt to self medicate previous trauma away... what a queer outlook. 

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Cú Chullain 02 Dec 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

> I should also add to my "nothing" post above that recently in Twickenham I saw three or four guys begging quite aggressively in the street, several times because I walked up and down three times, then later in the day I saw that they had a camp set up in a small park beside the Thames where they were partying, roaring drunk and making a nuisance of themselves.

I row at Twickenham rowing club and I am very aware of these chaps and their behaviour. While it is sad to see people with clear addiction issues cracking open cans of strong lager at 9am it is difficult to maintain sympathy when come lunchtime they are just hurling abuse at (mostly women) passers by and becoming physically threatening with anyone who objects. 

I have a standing order with Shelter and if do give anything to homeless folk it is in the form of a cup of tea or a sandwich.

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squarepeg 02 Dec 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I dont like getting dosh out on street, feels unsafe.

Am sat typing in local library, theres a box nearby for non perishable food donations or warm clothes for the local homeless charity, I put a padded shirt and a battered overcoat in last week.

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Pefa 02 Dec 2019
In reply to La benya:

> Against charity but for Funding someone’s self destructive attempt to self medicate previous trauma away... what a queer outlook. 

I'm against charity in principle for issues that should be covered by the government but since that doesn't happen then yes I will give on the few occasions I have money on me. I hope that makes sense. 

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JoshOvki 02 Dec 2019
In reply to Pefa:

I volunteer for a charity (well 2 actually) helping the sort of people that are likely to post on this forum. I personally am very glad they are charities, because it comes with the advantage of we are not at the whim of the current government, in either funding or policy.

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Tom V 02 Dec 2019
In reply to squarepeg:

> I dont like getting dosh out on street, feels unsafe.

Really? Where do you live/work? It must be pretty bad.

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Pefa 02 Dec 2019
In reply to JoshOvki:

And what if people stop giving or not enough do? I would have thought it safer to have funds guaranteed all the time and no government could take that away rather than relying on the whim of people giving or not giving to charity. I also think it is much more dignified as it becomes a inalienable right for the person who receives the aid rather than being perceived as having to go cap in hand like some Dickensian nightmare.

Edit: Obviously this is not the current situation so charities are essential in our present system. 

Post edited at 18:06
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JoshOvki 02 Dec 2019
In reply to Pefa:

Then the people who otherwise rely on our help don't get the current level of service, but as long as there are people willing to volunteer their time and skill we will be there. What can't happen is our budget and resources are dried up, while the expectations of our services goes up (aka Ambulance (& NHS), Police, Fire etc). We cannot be a political pawn where the don't replace 21,000 of us and then go "Hey! We are increasing the team by 20,000 new people!".

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Pefa 02 Dec 2019
In reply to JoshOvki:

Yes essential services should be ringfenced as basic rights that cannot be touched by any political party. 

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